TR Turkish Air Forces|News & Discussion

[Brokengineer]

If MİUS enters production by next year, would we even need new F16s? As serious power's move to 5th gen jets, it feels like this purchase is rather pointless. Sure F16s are still great. But this kind of resembles Greece's purchase of Rafale's. A descion out of desperation. Long term, I think it's a waste.

Mius is a complementary to f16 in variety of situations. It cannot replace any f16s like akinci or tb2's in the inventory.
Greece bought rafales which is state of art engineering in omnirole fighters. They have an advantage upon us. However, it is only one aspect. It does not mean they have full superiority in air . A rafale would ve been a perfect plane for TurAF needs but not possible.
There is still time to replace manned fighters with unmanned ones.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Mius is a complementary to f16 in variety of situations. It cannot replace any f16s like akinci or tb2's in the inventory.
Greece bought rafales which is state of art engineering in omnirole fighters. They have an advantage upon us. However, it is only one aspect. It does not mean they have full superiority in air . A rafale would ve been a perfect plane for TurAF needs but not possible.
There is still time to replace manned fighters with unmanned ones.

Exactly! The current MIUS project is not and can not be a replacement of a fully fledged manned fighter jet. It would be a complementary side kick at best. It would and should double or even triple an F16’s effectiveness. But on it’s own it can never replace it. On it’s own it would still be a very potent fighting machine nevertheless albeit somewhat restricted.
The next generation of MIUS, where a very high end AI, EW and indigenous engine type is used and it is stealthy, will be on a par with the best of any fighter jet. But we are not there yet.

 

[I_Love_F16]

Interesting. What I don’t understand is why buying more planes ? Isn’t MIUS + Hurjet + Ozgur modernization enough ?

 

[MADDOG]

View attachment 43623
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Interesting. What I don’t understand is why buying more planes ? Isn’t MIUS + Hurjet + Ozgur modernization enough ?

It would be enough. But all of them are still "projects". We don't know how successful they'll be once they're finished either. There is still a big question mark over everything. If the AESA radar fails to materialize, we are f*cked since it will probably effect everything down the line (from MIUS to TF-X). If MIUS gets delayed, the navy and the Air Force would be left without an essential force multiplier, meaning they'll be f*cked too. If Hurjet gets delayed by a significant extent or cancelled altogether, the MMU program might be f*cked since new engineers are still developing themselves with the Hurjet program. It's better to just equip ourselves before commencing the war of independence lol

 

[what]

My opinions are based on information and I thought others' would be the same.

An opinion is a judgment, viewpoint, or statement that is not conclusive, rather than facts, which are true statements.

Opinion - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

You're welcome.

 

[Manomed]

The Biden administration has demanded that US Congressional leaders approve the sale of advanced weapons and other equipment for Turkey's F-16 warplanes.

Hayırlı olsun.

 

[Quasar]

advanced weapons and other equipment for F 16? I dont think we have much left as ''advanced weapon'' we need from USA. on the contrary we can sell them some really cost effective ''advanced weapons'' like CAKIR or KUZGUN family for US F 16s, if our National Assembly approves but wondering this equipment thing may including Legion Pod? would be intersting just thinking at loud.

 

[Yasar_TR]

advanced weapons and equipment for F 16? I dont think we have much left as ''advanced weapon'' we need from USA. Even we can sell them some really cost effective ''advanced weapons'' like CAKIR or KUZGUN family for US F 16s, if our National Assembly approves but wondering this equipment thing may including Legion Pod? would be intersting just thinking at loud.

How much of our “advanced” weapons we would be allowed to integrate on to the newly purchased F16-V70s, is the question one need to ask.
Remember that these planes are going to have advanced US built Aesa radars and US built avionics. Even the upgrade kits may cause problems.
I hope we don’t end up with planes with which we can no longer use our indigenous modern weapons after upgrading them. US may try to sell the parts with that in mind. But we should resist and dig our heels in.

Apparently we have already asked for avionic equipment and weapons for existing planes, worth over 400 million dollars. That is the request we have sent to Biden administration and in turn they have asked for Congress approval.
This new equipment, it is envisaged, will see current f16 fleet to reach retirement age.

F-16'lar İçin 400 Milyon Dolarlık Füze ve Radar Talebi

Türkiye, ABD'ye F-16 savaş uçağı filosu için füze ve radar tedariki amacıyla 400 milyon dolar değerinde bir tedarik talebinde bulundu.

www.savunmasanayist.com

 

[Quasar]

How much of our “advanced” weapons we would be allowed to integrate on to the newly purchased F16-V70s, is the question one need to ask.
Remember that these planes are going to have advanced US built Aesa radars and US built avionics. Even the upgrade kits may cause problems.
I hope we don’t end up with planes with which we can no longer use our indigenous modern weapons after upgrading them. US may try to sell the parts with that in mind. But we should resist and dig our heels in.

Apparently we have already asked for avionic equipment and weapons for existing planes, worth over 400 million dollars. That is the request we have sent to Biden administration and in turn they have asked for Congress approval.
This new equipment, it is envisaged, will see current f16 fleet to reach retirement age.

F-16'lar İçin 400 Milyon Dolarlık Füze ve Radar Talebi

Türkiye, ABD'ye F-16 savaş uçağı filosu için füze ve radar tedariki amacıyla 400 milyon dolar değerinde bir tedarik talebinde bulundu.

www.savunmasanayist.com

You have very valid concerns and yes as you stated ''we should resist and dig our heels in'' for our indigenous modern weapons and to use them in each and every F 16 that we have without side ways as we are doing now.

On the news concerning 400 million deal; The Wall Street Journal reported, citing US officials that; Biden administration may be using this deal to test the level of support in Congress for a separate proposal to sell 40 new F-16 V70s to Turkey.


P.S Greek prime minister will be in US and will have a speach in congress quite soon.

 

[Fairon]

How much of our “advanced” weapons we would be allowed to integrate on to the newly purchased F16-V70s, is the question one need to ask.
Remember that these planes are going to have advanced US built Aesa radars and US built avionics. Even the upgrade kits may cause problems.
I hope we don’t end up with planes with which we can no longer use our indigenous modern weapons after upgrading them. US may try to sell the parts with that in mind. But we should resist and dig our heels in.

Apparently we have already asked for avionic equipment and weapons for existing planes, worth over 400 million dollars. That is the request we have sent to Biden administration and in turn they have asked for Congress approval.
This new equipment, it is envisaged, will see current f16 fleet to reach retirement age.

F-16'lar İçin 400 Milyon Dolarlık Füze ve Radar Talebi

Türkiye, ABD'ye F-16 savaş uçağı filosu için füze ve radar tedariki amacıyla 400 milyon dolar değerinde bir tedarik talebinde bulundu.

www.savunmasanayist.com

We could be trying to use two seperate weapons with our F16's. American weapons with the US upgraded aircraft and our weapons with the Özgür upgraded aircraft. This way we could minimize the risk with using our own weapons and we don't have to be pressured to produce weapons quickly.(especially AA missiles)

If thats the case, i can see the benefits. Almost all of our projects became critical to our existence, we need to put some pressure off as much as we can.

 

[godel44]

This latest package seems like a feeler for the larger F-16 purchase.

If this was only about getting the F-35 funds back, they would have purchased something else (like cargo planes or AWACS) that would not require an additional large sum of money. It seems Air Force wants to hedge against the possibility of the Ozgur modernization not being at the desired level or not being on schedule despite the fact that American Vipers will also take their time. Since the Ozgur prototype was already applied to a plane and tested successfully except the AESA radar, they might have doubts about the AESA capability or the timeline of either the radar or Ozgur modernizations as a whole.

At the end it seems Block 30/40 will undergo Ozgur, and Block 50/50+ will undergo the American upgrade. 120 4.5-generation Vipers plus whatever number Ozgur planes would relieve a lot of pressure on the local defense industry. It's a shame to spend so much money on imports though.

On the plus side, it gives a nice target diplomatically for all the haters. Greek, Armenian, PKK lobbies in the US can exhaust themselves on having this sale denied, which is not that critical due to the Ozgur option.

 

[TheInsider]

I'm against the F-16V deal. Anyone who supports the deal, please don't cry when the US stops the deal because we launched an operation against YPG or conducted drilling activities in the east med. Oh and prepare to get the delivery of new F-16Vs by 2030 if everything goes smoothly. 2022 will end without anything. We will have the first modernized F-16V in 2025 and the first new F-16V in 2028 at best.

 

[Khagan1923]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524871795798597645

Seems to have gone over our heads. Anyone have an idea what these jets are being ordered for?

 

[Bmx98]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524871795798597645

Seems to have gone over our heads. Anyone have an idea what these jets are being ordered for?

Hava SOJ maybe? They were supposed to get it from bombardier but maybe sanctions?

 

[Khagan1923]

Hava SOJ maybe? They were supposed to get it from bombardier but maybe sanctions?

Hmm I don't think so. Hava SOJ is already undergoing flight tests. And according to rumours Canada has eased its sanctions.

I think this is for another project. National AWACS? Or maybe Testbeds?

 

[MADDOG]

Hmm I don't think so. Hava SOJ is already undergoing flight tests. And according to rumours Canada has eased its sanctions.

I think this is for another project. National AWACS? Or maybe Testbeds?

"The aircraft will be fitted with special flight inspection calibration equipment to undertake missions of ensuring the integrity of the airways that constitute the national airspace of Turkey"

 

[kenny]

Testbed

 

[Ryder]

This latest package seems like a feeler for the larger F-16 purchase.

If this was only about getting the F-35 funds back, they would have purchased something else (like cargo planes or AWACS) that would not require an additional large sum of money. It seems Air Force wants to hedge against the possibility of the Ozgur modernization not being at the desired level or not being on schedule despite the fact that American Vipers will also take their time. Since the Ozgur prototype was already applied to a plane and tested successfully except the AESA radar, they might have doubts about the AESA capability or the timeline of either the radar or Ozgur modernizations as a whole.

At the end it seems Block 30/40 will undergo Ozgur, and Block 50/50+ will undergo the American upgrade. 120 4.5-generation Vipers plus whatever number Ozgur planes would relieve a lot of pressure on the local defense industry. It's a shame to spend so much money on imports though.

On the plus side, it gives a nice target diplomatically for all the haters. Greek, Armenian, PKK lobbies in the US can exhaust themselves on having this sale denied, which is not that critical due to the Ozgur option.

Kurdish lobby not the pkk lobby.

 

[Anastasius]

Kurdish lobby not the pkk lobby.

Get this through your heads the Kurdish disapora are lobbying against Turkiye.

I live in Australia you see there true face. What makes it worse most have Turkish passports and citizenship.

Ryder, I understand your frustration but no need to be so continuously hostile to various ethnicities. Be cool my man.

 

[B.t.N]

Testbed

And the purpose?