TR Air-Force TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[karakova]

You need a robust economy for a robust defense undustry, this starts at being able to finance the project and ends at the well being of the engineers who work on it.
Imagine your salary is eroding every passing day due to high inflation and your skills are highly sought after somewhere else with better economy, the temptation is big to accept an offer. Economy and politics are very relevant in this topic.
Strange that you even ask such a question.

Yes inflation is problem but economy grow...revenues , incomes growth...Turkey is not experiencing high inflation for the first time

Turkish economy can finance much more project...We are still underspending defense

Defense spending for 2024 still under 1.5% GDP

 

[Bogeyman]

You need a robust economy for a robust defense undustry, this starts at being able to finance the project and ends at the well being of the engineers who work on it.
Imagine your salary is eroding every passing day due to high inflation and your skills are highly sought after somewhere else with better economy, the temptation is big to accept an offer. Economy and politics are very relevant in this topic.
Strange that you even ask such a question.

What is really strange is that you are making insinuations about the project that are not based on concrete figures, while the budget allocated for the project is obvious and the total funds allocated for the defense industry are increasing every year. Engineers' preferences concern engineers. This is mostly related to the company's employment policy. By the way, migrating to Europe is not just an economic issue. Sinan Şal from TEI announced in his broadcast that 8 of the 10 engineer friends who left had returned to Turkey. When you are unfamiliar with the issue, I guess it seems normal to make such strange comments.

 

[MADDOG]

TAI CEO Prof. Dr. Temel Kotil:

"I hope KAAN will fly at the end of this year. We are making a very special effort for it. I visited KAAN when I came to the company this morning, visiting the aircraft has become a habit. It is going well, hopefully we will get to keep our promise by the end of the year.

It passed static tests and load tests. Extra equipment is being placed inside. Landing gears will be installed. There were landing gears before, but this time the airworthy landing gears will be installed. All our efforts are underway to see KAAN in the skies on our 100th anniversary."

-Via SST

 

[Spitfire9]

Who told you that Türkiye is looking for investors in the project?
Do not worry, because this project is crucial for Turkey and it will be completed

The aviation press told me.

ANKARA, Turkey — The first aircraft of Turkey’s indigenous fighter program, the TF-X, sits in a hangar ahead of its maiden flight at the end of the year. But fiscal problems could stand in the way of its success, according to an analyst, even as the country’s president seeks partners for the program.

The Turkish economy is experiencing high inflation, and the country’s external debt reached nearly $476 billion in March. The international insurance company Allianz Trade reported the stock of total external debt due within the next 12 months has risen to about $250 billion.


“Inevitably, the TF-X program will face financial difficulties in line with the country’s economic situation,” Ozgur Eksi, a defense analyst in Ankara, told Defense News.

However, Turkey is seeking foreign partners, which could lessen its own financial burden in regard to the program.

Turkish Defence Minister Yasar Guler said Aug. 14 Pakistan was about to sign an agreement to participate in the development of the fifth-generation fighter. “Friendly and brotherly countries are also making efforts to become partners in this project. An agreement was signed with Azerbaijan. There are other countries that are also about to sign, like Pakistan,” Guler said.

Turkey seeks partners for TF-X fighter program amid fiscal uncertainty

The Turkish economy is experiencing high inflation, and the country’s external debt reached nearly $476 billion in March.

www.defensenews.com

PS Something that friendly countries could do is to indicate the level of orders they might place. Non-commital memoranda of understanding would be helpful.

 

[Radko]

Bokdil bruh

 

[neosinan]

The aviation press told me.

Turkey seeks partners for TF-X fighter program amid fiscal uncertainty

The Turkish economy is experiencing high inflation, and the country’s external debt reached nearly $476 billion in March.

www.defensenews.com

PS Something that friendly countries could do is to indicate the level of orders they might place. Non-commital memoranda of understanding would be helpful.

That article is written by "Burak Ege Bekdil" He is known as pathological liar. He has no insider access or any access to even rumors. You should read about Turkish defence industry from anybody but him. Articles with no names attached have better reputation than him

 

[Siper>MMU]

I wonder how they are testing KAAN's landing gears. Until now it was equipped with temporary ones. The new "real" ones would need intensive testing before flight. F-14s landing gear test was carried by dropping the fuselage a couple times.

 

[Tornadoss]

That article is written by "Burak Ege Bekdil" He is known as pathological liar. He has no insider access or any access to even rumors. You should read about Turkish defence industry from anybody but him. Articles with no names attached have better reputation than him

He died a few days ago in a traffic accident, we will hear no more from him.

 

[Ecderha]

The aviation press told me.

Turkey seeks partners for TF-X fighter program amid fiscal uncertainty

The Turkish economy is experiencing high inflation, and the country’s external debt reached nearly $476 billion in March.

www.defensenews.com

PS Something that friendly countries could do is to indicate the level of orders they might place. Non-commital memoranda of understanding would be helpful.

I think you should start looking reliable sources for info.
About investment to KAAN it were option back 2020 not in present.

 

[Rooxbar]

I wonder how they are testing KAAN's landing gears. Until now it was equipped with temporary ones. The new "real" ones would need intensive testing before flight. F-14s landing gear test was carried by dropping the fuselage a couple times.

Temel Kotil mentions the landing gears here, apparently they aren't at that stage yet.

 

[Holikarbon]

This type of work does not depend on the economy. It depends on how much resources you allocate.

If economics were an indisputable binding rule, North Korea and Iran would not be able to take a step forward in Ballistic and Nuclear missiles.

 

[Zafer]

Can you show me one single country that managed to pull of a project like this without a robust economy, even Russians with decades long aviation legacy screwed up their 5th gen program simply because of economic/political reasons and corruption.

Its not a question of being familiar with TAI's internal policies, which you are not familiar with either btw, but about common sense and being able to connect the dots, some of you guys act like as if the project is finished and already in serial production.
Confidence is good, over-confidence is destructive...

Self relience overall is at 80% already, you can even print money to carry on national projects. By the year 2028 we expect 85% self reliance. Economic situation is not a problem for such projects.

 

[boredaf]

you can even print money to carry on national projects

While I have no doubt we can carry on the project on our own, even if at a slower rate, that is not how economy works mate. In fact, that is how economies die.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Can you show me one single country that managed to pull of a project like this without a robust economy, even Russians with decades long aviation legacy screwed up their 5th gen program simply because of economic/political reasons and corruption.

Its not a question of being familiar with TAI's internal policies, which you are not familiar with either btw, but about common sense and being able to connect the dots, some of you guys act like as if the project is finished and already in serial production.
Confidence is good, over-confidence is destructive...

Your pessimism does have valid points. But :
1. It is wrong to compare us with a country who was and is living off the inheritance of Soviets, devoid of new blood to improve.
2. It is also wrong to compare Turkiye with any other country as the logistic conditions would not be the same.
3. And finally, including myself, many people here as well, probably were very cynical about the success of TFX, until we proved to the world that we can build a supersonic jet fighter that can fly, with Hurjet; then showed a TFX that taxied.
There are still some points to prove. Apart from the engine, which is a different discussion point altogether, this plane has to fly and most importantly be stealthy enough to warrant it being called a 5th generation aircraft. (That won’t happen until the indigenous engines are fitted)

But after Hurjet, most people are more optimistic that we will manage to build a jet fighter that will be better than anything we have ever had. It being a true 5th generation, will come as a bonus later, may be in another 5 years.

Looking at what KAAN will have onboard, when fully fitted out, will make it one of the most capable 4.5 generation fighter aircrafts in the world. That is what we are aiming for now anyway.

 

[TR_123456]

Can you show me one single country that managed to pull of a project like this without a robust economy, even Russians with decades long aviation legacy screwed up their 5th gen program simply because of economic/political reasons and corruption.

Its not a question of being familiar with TAI's internal policies, which you are not familiar with either btw, but about common sense and being able to connect the dots, some of you guys act like as if the project is finished and already in serial production.
Confidence is good, over-confidence is destructive...

Finishing the TFX(KAAN,Engine) project is existential to our country,it doesnt matter even if we have 150% inflation or no economy at all.
This project is like the Pakistani nuclear bomb development,we have to finish it,no matter what.
Its not a choice.

 

[TR_123456]

Annual inflation is reported to be 61.5%. In Europe it is more like 5%. It looks like the government is spectacularly incompetent at managing the economy. Will foreign countries be put off getting involved in the KAAN project?

lets just say we have many silent partners already with loads of cash.

 

[TR_123456]

Can you show me one single country that managed to pull of a project like this without a robust economy,

Pakistani nuclear bomb.

 

[Zafer]

While I have no doubt we can carry on the project on our own, even if at a slower rate, that is not how economy works mate. In fact, that is how economies die.

When you keep every other factor constant printing money may make the economy bleed but we expect our imported energy bill to shrink going forward so we can compansate. Anyway, another member put it more briskly we will pull this off even if we starve ourselves.

 

[Bogeyman]

Can you show me one single country that managed to pull of a project like this without a robust economy, even Russians with decades long aviation legacy screwed up their 5th gen program simply because of economic/political reasons and corruption.

Its not a question of being familiar with TAI's internal policies, which you are not familiar with either btw, but about common sense and being able to connect the dots, some of you guys act like as if the project is finished and already in serial production.
Confidence is good, over-confidence is destructive...

First of all, the Russians failed their projects not only due to economic reasons but also due to their technical inadequacy.

I have more information than you about TAI's internal personnel policies, even if they are not up to date. If one of our friends here had not shamelessly shared the photo I shared on the forum (I specifically warned him) and shared it on X, that conversation would have continued.

In any case, I know better than you the staff's fights with each other, the management's view of the staff, the request for defense from the staff when the program could not be completed in the Kaan project, and the chief engineers who were dismissed from their duties in the Kaan project.

 

[Bogeyman]

Ok nice, you can discuss those with the HR department, i dont wanna claim i know anything about TAI's employment policies.
But the thing is this post doesnt negate any of the points i have been mentioning previously.

Actually it does. Because the staff complains about the technical inadequacy of the chief engineers. He is troubled by the lack of harmony within the company. He complains about the fact that experienced personnel within the company do not document in detail the progress made in the projects, step by step. This causes know-how to evaporate when they leave the company. When developing new techniques, they have to do everything from scratch. Or, when it is not clear what is being done and why at the plan-project stage, things get mixed up.

That's why, if I were you, I would worry more about the maturation of the corporate culture as soon as possible rather than money issues.