TR Air-Force TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[Afif]

True to some extent. But export versions are always downgraded versions of the original ones.

There are inbuilt software safety for export versions. Which restrict the use in ways that exporter country may not prefer. But you can't downgrade the hardware and also call it true 5th gen. For example, there was a official talk of USAF buying off Turkish F-35s with some additional software modification contract. That means, Turkish F-35s has the same central processor, radar, EOTS, DAS, EW suite, LO characteristics & engine that USAF original F-35s has.

 

[DBdev]

There are inbuilt software safety for export versions. Which restrict the use in ways that exporter country may not prefer. But you can't downgrade the hardware and also call it true 5th gen. For example, there was a official talk of USAF buying off Turkish F-35s with some additional software modification contract. That means, Turkish F-35s has the same central processor, radar, EOTS, DAS, EW suite, LO characteristics & engine that USAF original F-35s has.

Options are endless with software. F35s could always be secretly waiting a remote signal to shut down their engines. You can protect plane against reverse engineering by military encryption and by completely removing most critical pieces of code from planes and make planes run main server dependent. Like they do with F-35s.You can cancel all of the supposed stealth by simply using a software triggered radio locator. It could give away its location with periodic encrypted multi-channel pings when plane is airborne. It is impossible for us to know or decompile tens of millions of lines code to catch that trojan horse. That is why we can not trust any foreign, especially cleverly deceptive American equipment. Even Microsoft can not make Windows inaccessible to American government according to Edward Snowden. What makes you think they will not do 1000 times worse with all their military exports not just F-35s. This is why our Viper purchase is a huge mistake.

Why should we never trust west especially America?
People of our so called NATO "allies" were begging Putin on all social media to "Please nuke Türkiye and take Constantinople back" after 1 Russian plane was shot down.

America, Germany etc. left NATO bases in Türkiye immediately.

Took Patriots with them, left us all open to Russian attack. Retaliation started with Russia giving PKK, MANPADs and PKK killing one of our helicopter pilots with that.
More was coming, for sure. It was THAT serious. Erdogan had to apologize to Putin and Russian pilot's family in person and had to fire PM Ahmet Davutoğlu for giving the order. All to save us from Russia's further retaliations.

So that is NATO the NATO that even now after we bent the knee on Sweden STILL embargos us. Even with closed source code Eurofighter and countless other critical national security technologies that our "allies" don't want us to have.

In Short: Even if it is a toy that you are buying from America, west, BUYER BEWARE!
PS: I am a hacker and a software engineer myself.

 

[Isbara]

It is TR Motor's job to design the engine, TEI's job to manufacture it and other companies can be used to outsource parts production.

Whith who and which facility are they going to design the engine ?
If so why Prf. Aksit expressed that they're working on TF-35000 ? Also added In they're trying to develop and test on TF10000, the tech they're going to use on TF35000.
So what is TEI developing for TF35000 if it is TR-Motor to design engine ? This project had become a nutshell already.

 

[Isbara]

Says who?
They do not have to broadcast everything.
Do you want to fund the project?

I'm talking about the facts. Not personal guesses.

 

[Isbara]

So the Head of SSB saying this


And for you they are


Alright, have a nice day.

I've responded to your statement below.

They do not have to broadcast everything.

And yet again I'll repeat. I do not care about "They don't say everything" like assuptions. We should talk about facts.
Unless we have evidence proves otherwise , this project is in a nutshell.
Even the head of SSM talk about (As a defence industry ethısiast of course I'm aware of his statements) there are so many missing parst about that project. All those TR Motor vs discussed before many times.

Do not try chep shots like this. And pls do not try to make things personal.

 

[Dosirak]

CDR of this KAAN hasn't not been completed, correct? I'd not be too fuss about an exact date of maiden flight before CDR. It essentially doesn't matter until the detailed design is confirmed and is evaluated to demtermine if it could satisfy performance requirements stated in the capabilities development document.

An actual prototype will fly probably a few years after successful completion of CDR anyway.

 

[dBSPL]

Not a good idea to let Azerbaijan unconditionally participate in our Wunderwaffen-programs.

Azerbaijan is a very Israel-friendly country and the Mossad is everywhere in Azerbaijan. Definitely not a good idea.

If there are security problems, necessary measures will be taken. You don't need to go all the way to Azerbaijan, if you go back a few years ago, you will see that the real security problems are internal.

Azerbaijan must be supported militarily under all circumstances. From my point of view, this issue is not even open for discussion. If you don't support it, Azerbaijan will of course continue to be forced to turn to whoever gives it under all the embargo and pressure.

 

[Spitfire9]

CDR of this KAAN hasn't not been completed, correct? I'd not be too fuss about an exact date of maiden flight before CDR. It essentially doesn't matter until the detailed design is confirmed and is evaluated to demtermine if it could satisfy performance requirements stated in the capabilities development document.

An actual prototype will fly probably a few years after successful completion of CDR anyway.

Your assessment of probability is unusual.

My understanding is that the prototypes being built are design development airframes, subject to change, rather than 'identical' aircraft to test a frozen design.

Out of curiosity, a prototype aircraft exists that moves under its own power on the ground and was projected to fly last year, so why do you think it will be several years before it flies?

 

[Dosirak]

Your assessment of probability is unusual.

My understanding is that the prototypes being built are design development airframes, subject to change, rather than 'identical' aircraft to test a frozen design.

Out of curiosity, a prototype aircraft exists that moves under its own power on the ground and was projected to fly last year, so why do you think it will be several years before it flies?

I am sorry, but your understanding is incorrect. CDR is conducted to establish a product baseline which is basically used as a reference of final detailed design of aircraft and this applies to not only airframes, but also electrical and avionics subsystems & their integration and implementation and so on. It also finalizes acceptance criteria for performance test and may conclude production guidlines before it goes for 2000+ sorties of actual flight tests.

So no, you reallly don't want to fly aircraft before CDR. It is not rational.

Hurjet flew a few years after completion of CDR as far as I know. So did many aircraft before it. I don't see how could Kaan be any different.

 

[Zafer]

Whith who and which facility are they going to design the engine ?
If so why Prf. Aksit expressed that they're working on TF-35000 ? Also added In they're trying to develop and test on TF10000, the tech they're going to use on TF35000.
So what is TEI developing for TF35000 if it is TR-Motor to design engine ? This project had become a nutshell already.

It is like TR Motor exists for nothing, ha.

 

[Spitfire9]

I am sorry, but your understanding is incorrect. CDR is conducted to establish a product baseline which is basically used as a reference of final detailed design of aircraft and this applies to not only airframes, but also electrical and avionics subsystems & their integration and implementation and so on. It also finalizes acceptance criteria for performance test and may conclude production guidlines before it goes for 2000+ sorties of actual flight tests.

So no, you reallly don't want to fly aircraft before CDR. It is not rational.

Hurjet flew a few years after completion of CDR as far as I know. So did many aircraft before it. I don't see how could Kaan be any different.

I am aware that CDR acceptance is normal before embarking on prototype building. As far as I know Kaan development does not fit the norm.

Having built the first prototype, what would be the point of waiting to fly it if it is ready to fly and start gathering flight performance data? Perhaps it is not ready for flight. Perhaps it is being kept on the ground for political reasons, only to leave the ground at some politically auspicious moment before the upcoming elections?

 

[Heartbang]

Having built the first prototype, what would be the point of waiting to fly it if it is ready to fly and start gathering flight performance data?

2nd prototype. Which is the one originally slated to fly before all these election shenanigans came to be.

 

[Radko]

Proto 2 should be in FAL. We have seen its parts getting produced in 2023 Summer

 

[B_A]

Your assessment of probability is unusual.

My understanding is that the prototypes being built are design development airframes, subject to change, rather than 'identical' aircraft to test a frozen design.

Out of curiosity, a prototype aircraft exists that moves under its own power on the ground and was projected to fly last year, so why do you think it will be several years before it flies?

I am not talking about Kaan; but the delay of flight is normal.

For example, the Su-27 was delayed for many years for redesign because the initial design couldn’t be matched to F-15.

Also the Japanese Mitsubishi X-2 Shinshin was expected to conduct its maiden flight in 2014; but delayed to 2016.

 

[B_A]

2nd prototype. Which is the one originally slated to fly before all these election shenanigans came to be.

I think a Metro line and bread price are more important than Jet fighter in local election(not the national election)

 

[Spitfire9]

2nd prototype. Which is the one originally slated to fly before all these election shenanigans came to be.

I don't understand. Why build a first prototype, roll it out, taxi it around but wait until a second prototype is built before flying the type?

 

[Fuzuli NL]

I don't understand. Why build a first prototype, roll it out, taxi it around but wait until a second prototype is built before flying the type?

Ground tests are at least as important as tests made during flight. Also ground test prototypes go through scrutinised tests under extreme conditions which aren't exactly things you'd do when the prototype is airborne. The ground tests could result in some minor structural changes, i.e. reinforcements, weight/balance/vibration issues amongst other things. Extreme pressure tests, lightning resistance tests etc.
After all these tests I think flying that same thing would be a great risk, not to mention that it's not built to fly anyway that means it has many components and electronics left out.
Baykar for example has flown all their prototypes AFAIK, but there's no risk of losing a pilot in their case, plus they have a different approach compared to TAI.

 

[B_A]

I don't understand. Why build a first prototype, roll it out, taxi it around but wait until a second prototype is built before flying the type?

Maybe they found some problems needed to fix

KAAN is our first jet fighter we have to do lot of issues.

 

[Dosirak]

I am aware that CDR acceptance is normal before embarking on prototype building. As far as I know Kaan development does not fit the norm.

Having built the first prototype, what would be the point of waiting to fly it if it is ready to fly and start gathering flight performance data? Perhaps it is not ready for flight. Perhaps it is being kept on the ground for political reasons, only to leave the ground at some politically auspicious moment before the upcoming elections?

Because CDR has not been completed and (initial) product baseline has not been established. What's point of gathering 'flight performance data' when acceptance criteria for HW & SW has not been reviewed & confirmed? Comparing the date to what? How about risk management & mitigation plan? I think you completely misunderstand the whole purpose of flight tests.

The aircraft you see today is not an actual 'prototype' and it doesn't matter if it flies today, tomorrow or anytime this year - the flight is essentially moot.

TAI is going to do CDR of Kaan anyway and with this TAI will manufacture & test a prototype in accordance with the guidelines that are established by the initial product baseline. That will be the moment that actual flight testing starts.

 

[Spitfire9]

Because CDR has not been completed and (initial) product baseline has not been established. What's point of gathering 'flight performance data' when acceptance criteria for HW & SW has not been reviewed & confirmed? Comparing the date to what? How about risk management & mitigation plan? I think you completely misunderstand the whole purpose of flight tests.

The aircraft you see today is not an actual 'prototype' and it doesn't matter if it flies today, tomorrow or anytime this year - the flight is essentially moot.

TAI is going to do CDR of Kaan anyway and with this TAI will manufacture & test a prototype in accordance with the guidelines that are established by the initial product baseline. That will be the moment that actual flight testing starts.

I defer to your better knowledge. However, from the mouth of the head of TAI in mid- December I heard that TAI were still aiming for the 27th December as FF date. In January I heard FF would be in days IIRC. No mention that CDR had been completed. No mention of waiting for completion of CDR before FF 27th December. No mention in January of waiting for completion of CDR before FF in a few days.

Earlier this month Mr Kotil said Kaan FF would be in the coming days. You said it will be in years. Perhaps you can understand why I bemused.

PS Kaan is not important to me in terms of my national security. The RAF is not anticipating putting Kaan into service. I do, however, have an interest in aviation, so I am interested in following progress in the project, including when Kaan's FF is likely to be.