China China to unveil J-35A stealth fighter jet

[Afif]

Hong KongCNN —

China’s air force is set to officially debut its new stealth fighter jet, the J-35A, giving observers the first look at a highly anticipated asset that adds to the country’s fast growing military capabilities.

The fighter, an image of which was released during an air force press conference Tuesday, will appear at an air show in the southern city of Zhuhai next week, officials said.

The development of the jet is widely seen as part of Beijing’s bid to match the United States’ stealth fighter capabilities – as it pushes to modernize its armed forces and assert its military might in Asia.

The J-35A is “designed mainly for air combat operations and can also conduct air-to-surface attack,” according to a report from a Chinese military-affiliated outlet.

If the aircraft is commissioned into operation, it would make China the second country after the US to have two types of stealth fighter jets, according to experts cited by Chinese state media.

China’s J-20 stealth fighter entered service in 2017, officials said at the time.

Stealth fighters are those that are designed to evade radar and other monitoring to conduct missions without being detected or intercepted.

The J-35 is likely to be designed as a series and may also be used as carrier-based aircraft in the future, Chinese military expert Li Li told state broadcaster CCTV. This would “greatly improve the overall strength of China’s sea and air combat,” she said.

The fighter’s debut follows what analysts at Janes global open-source intelligence firm have described as China’s “bolstering” of its forward theater commands with additional J-20s.

The People’s Liberation Army (PLA) Air Force between July 2023 and this June inducted more than 70 J-20s, bringing the force’s operational fleet up to approximately 195, according to a Janes report published earlier this year.

It’s not clear when the new J-35A fighter would be commissioned into military use and where the fighters would be deployed.

The sparse details released about the fighter so far also make it difficult to compare with other stealth fighters, including the US’ F-22 and F-35.

Carl Schuster, a former director of operations at the US Pacific Command’s Joint Intelligence Center, said the J-35A, which has been in development for more than 10 years, was likely intended for the PLA Navy.

“The J-35 made its maiden flight in 2021, but as a derivative of an earlier prototype, it may be ready for production by early next year,” Schuster said, adding that the J-35A model likely improved on that earlier design with more powerful engines.

China’s development of stealth fighters has for years been dogged by accusations that it stole crucial stealth fighter technology from the US.

Beijing has vigorously denied those claims, which came to light with the 2015 publication by German magazine Der Spiegel of documents purportedly from US National Security Agency leaker Edward Snowden.

The J-35A is a “new type of stealth fighter jet independently developed by Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC),” a Chinese military affiliated outlet said this week.

China’s J-35A is not the only technology that will be on show for the first time at next week’s airshow, which takes place in Zhuhai from November 12 to 17.

The H-19 surface-to-air missile system and new “reconnaissance and strike” UAVs will also have their public debut, Col. Niu Wenbo of the air force’s equipment department said Tuesday.

CCTV has also reported that Russia’s Su-57 stealth fighter would join the air show for the first time, among equipment from 49 different countries and regions that would be represented this year.

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https://www.cnn.com/2024/11/05/china/china-stealth-fighter-jet-j-35a-intl-hnk/index.html

Hopefully, we will get to see more high quality images and know more details when it is officially unveiled.

@TR_123456 @Yasar_TR @Kartal1 @Sanchez @Nilgiri @Anmdt @Bogeyman @dBSPL @Radonsider et al.

 

[Strong AI]

Since this plane has a HUD, i think that the pilot's helmet mounted display (HMD) is not so advanced (if there is one at all).
And if they even can't make an advanced HMD, can we say that the sensors of that plane are really advanced?
IMHO this plane only looks advanced but its sensors are not so advanced, hence it is not a full-fledged 5th gen aircraft.
This is just my opinion based on simple observations.

 

[Afif]

Since this plane has a HUD, i think that the pilot's helmet mounted display (HMD) is not so advanced (if there is one at all).
And if they even can't make an advanced HMD, can we say that the sensors of that plane are really advanced?
IMHO this plane only looks advanced but its sensors are not so advanced, hence it is not a full-fledged 5th gen aircraft.
This is just my opinion based on simple observations.

F22 Has HUD, does that mean its sensors are not advanced?

Also, having HUD doesn't mean its HMD isn't good enough either.

I think we should wait for details to come out before making negative inference.

 

[steppeWolf]

hence it is not a full-fledged 5th gen aircraft.

Enlighten us what a full fledged 5th Gen is?

Since this plane has a HUD, i think that the pilot's helmet mounted display (HMD) is not so advanced (if there is one at all).

There is no co-relation between having a HUD and HMD. Even JF-17 and J-10CE have an excellent HMD and they don't comprise the top tier of Chinese tech.

 

[Strong AI]

F22 Has HUD, does that mean its sensors are not advanced?

Now tell me which plane from 2005 had no HUD? Also tell me which HMD did F-22 pilots use? Did they use any HMD back then?
And you say that the sensors from F-22 (2005) are more advanced than the sensors from F-35?

Enlighten us what

an excellent HMD

is.

 

[steppeWolf]

is.

Answering a question with a question? Good deflection.

 

[somegoodusername]

Since this plane has a HUD, i think that the pilot's helmet mounted display (HMD) is not so advanced (if there is one at all).
And if they even can't make an advanced HMD, can we say that the sensors of that plane are really advanced?
IMHO this plane only looks advanced but its sensors are not so advanced, hence it is not a full-fledged 5th gen aircraft.
This is just my opinion based on simple observations.

These are very bad opinions.

 

[Khagan1923]

Don't know if it’s the lens they have taken the picture with but the nose seems rather small.

 

[Afif]

Don't know if it’s the lens they have taken the picture with but the nose seems rather small.

I think it's the angle. But smaller than F22 and J20, yes.

 

[SilverMachine]

F22 Has HUD, does that mean its sensors are not advanced?

Also, having HUD doesn't mean its HMD isn't good enough either.

I think we should wait for details to come out before making negative inference.

"Chinese fighter jet" is probably all one needs to hear as far as negative connotations.

It'll be an outdated reverse-engineered copy like all their other military stuff, pretty much. Eventually probably in large numbers though, so that'll be the mildly-concerning part.

 

[steppeWolf]

It'll be an outdated reverse-engineered copy like all their other military stuff, pretty much. Eventually probably in large numbers though, so that'll be the mildly-concerning part.

I hope this is an attempt at satire.

 

[Huelague]

That’s really ridiculous!

 

[SilverMachine]

I hope this is an attempt at satire.

Well, what's the counter-point here? That high-end Chinese platforms, whether planes or ships or subs or whatever other vehicles, are generally equal/comparable to the U.S. & European stuff? No serious person thinks that. Hell, in most aviation respects Russia still has the edge on China. This thing's obviously just an F-35 knockoff but ten years too late, made by less-proven companies.

 

[steppeWolf]

That high-end Chinese platforms, whether planes or ships or subs or whatever other vehicles, are generally equal/comparable to the U.S

More or less but yes.

European stuff?

Europeans ain't in the race, come back if they develop and complete their 6 gen programs before China.

No serious person thinks that

You mean you?

Hell, in most aviation respects Russia still has the edge on China.

Is this a joke? The most advanced flanker on Earth is in China ( J16 ). Russians can't compete with their own designs.

This thing's obviously just an F-35 knockoff

Prove it.

 

[SilverMachine]

"Prove it"?

I mean, guess we'll have to wait for the PLA to go try to take Taiwan to see one way or the other, fair. I do know the U.S. air force doesn't think much of the J16 though, and they haven't been shy about freaking out and scrambling to catch up with adversaries in times past like with the MIG. Somehow I don't think a Rooskie design from the 90s with improved avionics has NATO shitting bricks. Likewise the 35a absolutely screams "hey, China joined 2011". If they can produce them in major quantity they could be an issue, but plane-to-plane nobody's panicking. By the time they're fielded the U.S. will have some other shiny new toys anyway, as if in reality a 22 or 35 couldn't match one in the first place as of today.

 

[steppeWolf]

do know the U.S. air force doesn't think much of the J16 though

Thanks for the laugh!

All else was , no offence.

 

[SilverMachine]

Like, there are colonels literally on record basically saying "it's okay, it's fine, nothing to write home about". To the press.

Sure, a cynic would just say that's them putting up a brave front, but that hasn't been the pattern before. When the U.S. is lagging behind they tend to put pressure on congress for more funds & support by freaking out about the adversary's gains. Not here.

Again, the J16 is like...welcome to 1998. With some faster computing. And a much-less eperienced piloting community.

 

[Jammer]

Like, there are colonels literally on record basically saying "it's okay, it's fine, nothing to write home about". To the press.

Sure, a cynic would just say that's them putting up a brave front, but that hasn't been the pattern before. When the U.S. is lagging behind they tend to put pressure on congress for more funds & support by freaking out about the adversary's gains. Not here.

Again, the J16 is like...welcome to 1998. With some faster computing. And a much-less eperienced piloting community.

Not lagging behind the US would be still a pretty scary for any other country that isn't the US. Every one really needs to stop underestimating China. The greatest fear will always be them mass producing this at the rate they did for the J20.

 

[Gessler]

Since this plane has a HUD, i think that the pilot's helmet mounted display (HMD) is not so advanced (if there is one at all).
And if they even can't make an advanced HMD, can we say that the sensors of that plane are really advanced?
IMHO this plane only looks advanced but its sensors are not so advanced, hence it is not a full-fledged 5th gen aircraft.
This is just my opinion based on simple observations.

F22 Has HUD, does that mean its sensors are not advanced?

Also, having HUD doesn't mean its HMD isn't good enough either.

I think we should wait for details to come out before making negative inference.

It's all about the engine tbh.

Currently, there's no engine & generator setup that can match what the F35 has. It's the only jet flying that has a real next-gen system.

For example, the F-15EX which has a lot of the same things F35 has (advanced AESA & advanced EW suite) has a power output of about ~85 kva. F35 has 400 kva.

This means that while you can theoretically put the same GaN-based AESA on both these jets, only F35 has the potential to take full advantage of it. It's because the way electrical generators/alternators draw power from the engine is very different on older powerplants compared to what F135 has.

E.g. the liquid cooling system that India is building for the Su-30MKI AESA upgrade has a capacity to remove about 10.5 kW worth of heat (which is proportional to how much power radar & front sector optronics like IRST are expected to output). The current interim system on F35 has a capacity of 35 kW and they have started test-flying with one that has capacity of a whopping 80 kW (probably meant to prepare ground for APG-85 GaN upgrade).

Comparing any platform to F35 just because it's got an AESA or stealthy airframe is a bad joke. Air-cooled radars are even bigger jokes. Nothing comes close, period. Not J35, not J20, not Su57, not KF21, not KAAN, not AMCA.

The reason? Because no engine comes close to F35's engine. As of GaN, without a powerplant that can give it a boost in electrical input, there's not much GaN can do about increasing your output. Best it can do is improve your efficiency (thanks to reduction in losses in the form of heat, noise etc.) but that too depends on how good your cooling system is.

As of where China's current engines stand wrt even older-gen Western engines requires no introduction. Where China's supposed next-gen engines are going to stand is anyone's guess.

Personally, I expect them to compete more favourably with the previous-gen Western engines (F100/400 series, EJ200, M88 etc.) but still won't compare with F135...and US is already moving toward even more advanced powerplants for 6th gens. In the meantime ECU upgrade for F35 engine is likely to bring further improvements.

European 6th gens like GCAP/FCAS (with variable-cycle engines) are expected to have power outputs of around 1 MW per engine (2 MW total), which should be something in neighbourhood of 1,500-1,800 kva depending on power factor/efficiency.

You cannot imagine the level of Electronic Attack capacity even F35 has. Let alone 6th gens. F35's problem is cost & complexity of program. The platform, especially the electronic & avionics setup, is simply superb.

@Nilgiri might offer more insights.

 

[Afif]

It's all about the engine tbh.

Currently, there's no engine & generator setup that can match what the F35 has. It's the only jet flying that has a real next-gen system.

For example, the F-15EX which has a lot of the same things F35 has (advanced AESA & advanced EW suite) has a power output of about ~85 kva. F35 has 400 kva.

This means that while you can theoretically put the same GaN-based AESA on both these jets, only F35 has the potential to take full advantage of it. It's because the way electrical generators/alternators draw power from the engine is very different on older powerplants compared to what F135 has.

E.g. the liquid cooling system that India is building for the Su-30MKI AESA upgrade has a capacity to remove about 10.5 kW worth of heat (which is proportional to how much power radar & front sector optronics like IRST are expected to output). The current interim system on F35 has a capacity of 35 kW and they have started test-flying with one that has capacity of a whopping 80 kW (probably meant to prepare ground for APG-85 GaN upgrade).

Comparing any platform to F35 just because it's got an AESA or stealthy airframe is a bad joke. Air-cooled radars are even bigger jokes. Nothing comes close, period. Not J35, not J20, not Su57, not KF21, not KAAN, not AMCA.

The reason? Because no engine comes close to F35's engine. As of GaN, without a powerplant that can give it a boost in electrical input, there's not much GaN can do about increasing your output. Best it can do is improve your efficiency (thanks to reduction in losses in the form of heat, noise etc.) but that too depends on how good your cooling system is.

As of where China's current engines stand wrt even older-gen Western engines requires no introduction. Where China's supposed next-gen engines are going to stand is anyone's guess.

Personally, I expect them to compete more favourably with the previous-gen Western engines (F100/400 series, EJ200, M88 etc.) but still won't compare with F135...and US is already moving toward even more advanced powerplants for 6th gens. In the meantime ECU upgrade for F35 engine is likely to bring further improvements.

European 6th gens like GCAP/FCAS (with variable-cycle engines) are expected to have power outputs of around 1 MW per engine (2 MW total), which should be something in neighbourhood of 1,500-1,800 kva depending on power factor/efficiency.

You cannot imagine the level of Electronic Attack capacity even F35 has. Let alone 6th gens. F35's problem is cost & complexity of program. The platform, especially the electronic & avionics setup, is simply superb.

@Nilgiri might offer more insights.

Bro, I don't think I have compared it with F35. With its high power generation capacity, uniquely capable sensor fusion engine, mutliple implemented extensive upgrade cycles already, F35 leads any platform in class by a wide margin.

However, we did have discussions on F35's power generation specifically on KAAN thread. Afaik, it has three generators 80kw each. One is reserved so it is 160kw in average. I am not sure where did you get 400kva, any source? Perhaps a new development. Though, I did read the news of RTX upgrading its EPACS to 80kw cooling capacity. Which, as you say is enormous.

As for AESA sensor, I remember we talked about it a year ago or so. But from what I know now, GaN vs GaAs doesn't matter that much. It is much more about the design of TRM itself, antenna design=gain/directivity, digital beamforming, processing unit, etc. (I.e. you can still make shitty GaN based AESA compared to APG-81) Let's say even if you increase the transmission power output by 100% utilizing powerful GaN TRMs, you will only get an increase in range by roughly 20%. (From what I read, efficiency improvement is minor. Highly efficient GaAs TRM are also designed and manufactured today) So you improve the detection range by putting more TRM and having a bigger array, according to 'AESA radar calculator' developer. By increasing the numbers of TRM and antenna by 100%, you get a 68% increase in detection range (assuming we are using the same TRMs+antenna without changing other factors, as duty cycle or the environment) On another forum he gave this very simplified equation.

Rfac = ((1200/1200)^3*(10/10))^(1/4)
Rfac = 1

Rfac = ((1200/1200)^3*(20/10))^(1/4)
Rfac = 1.19

Rfac = ((2400/1200)^3*(10/10))^(1/4)
Rfac =1.68

DOWNLOAD-AESA Radar calculator V3.

Though, I can see why GaN array is more lucrative in EW applications. I.e. due to its significantly high transmission output capacity. That's probably why APG-85 EA capabilities is going to be insane.