TR Attack & Utility Helicopter Programs

[mTT]

GÖKBEY Made Its First Overseas Flight at TEKNOFEST TRNC

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1918632094776819926

 

[Kaan Azman]

T129 ATAK Shown in TEKNOFEST 2025 with RF Jammer Pod | TURDEF

During TEKNOFEST 2025, held in Northern Cyprus, TUSAŞ’s T129 ATAK attack helicopter was exhibited with an under-wing RF jammer pod for the first time.

turdef.com

Something interesting from T129 ATAK, been dreaming of EW pods on attack helicopters after seeing this many pods on UAVs and now it is a reality (My legs are still swearing at me full throttle from the TEKNOFEST TRNC run)

 

[Sanchez]

This is literally T-129 Atak Phase-II/B2 and it flew already in 2019 with that pod.

First Test Flight with the T129 Phase II Prototype

The first flight test of the T129B Mk-I Tactical Reconnaissance and Attack Helicopter Phase-II version equipped with additional Electronic Warfare Self Protection and communication systems was success

www.defenceturkey.com

 

[TheInsider]

Note that Atak has both an integrated jammer and a jammer pod.

 

[Sanchez]

Interestingly, "TC-HLR" could be a new prototype, I don't think we ever saw this registry before. Previous 4 prototypes were orange/yellow and then blue P0 HLP, blue P1 HLI, gendarme livery P2 HLV and the black P3 HLH. This HLR is either a re-registry, or a new prototype.

From TAI GM's recent Sabah interview:
"To date, we have built 3 plus 4 prototypes on the GÖKBEY serial production line."

2026’da üç Kaan gökyüzünde dans edecek

Türkiye’nin ismini göklere kazıyacak gurur projelerinde hummalı çalışma son sürat devam ediyor. Önümüzdeki yıl KAAN’dan HÜRJET’e, SÜPER ŞİMŞEK’ten GÖKBEY’e kritik yerli savunma sanayi ürünlerinde önemli eşikler aşılacak. KKTC TEKNOFEST’te TUSAŞ’ın ezber bozan ürünleri ile ilgili son gelişmeleri...

www.sabah.com.tr

I don't know how to read this. 3 is the first 3 production helicopters given to JnGK. But they also built 4 more prototype/test models on the same line and TC-HLR is one of them? Or "4 prototypes" refer to the 4 original prototypes and HLR is a re-registry. Or gendarme livery TC-HLV was reclassed and delivered to JnGK and HLR was built to replace that for testing?

 

[Saithan]

From TAI GM's recent Sabah interview:
"To date, we have built 3 plus 4 prototypes on the GÖKBEY serial production line."

2026’da üç Kaan gökyüzünde dans edecek

Türkiye’nin ismini göklere kazıyacak gurur projelerinde hummalı çalışma son sürat devam ediyor. Önümüzdeki yıl KAAN’dan HÜRJET’e, SÜPER ŞİMŞEK’ten GÖKBEY’e kritik yerli savunma sanayi ürünlerinde önemli eşikler aşılacak. KKTC TEKNOFEST’te TUSAŞ’ın ezber bozan ürünleri ile ilgili son gelişmeleri...

www.sabah.com.tr

I don't know how to read this. 3 is the first 3 production helicopters given to JnGK. But they also built 4 more prototype/test models on the same line and TC-HLR is one of them? Or "4 prototypes" refer to the 4 original prototypes and HLR is a re-registry. Or gendarme livery TC-HLV was reclassed and delivered to JnGK and HLR was built to replace that for testing?

I don't like how they speak so vague. It is absolutely ridiculous.

 

[sh. Abdj]

From TAI GM's recent Sabah interview:
"To date, we have built 3 plus 4 prototypes on the GÖKBEY serial production line."

2026’da üç Kaan gökyüzünde dans edecek

Türkiye’nin ismini göklere kazıyacak gurur projelerinde hummalı çalışma son sürat devam ediyor. Önümüzdeki yıl KAAN’dan HÜRJET’e, SÜPER ŞİMŞEK’ten GÖKBEY’e kritik yerli savunma sanayi ürünlerinde önemli eşikler aşılacak. KKTC TEKNOFEST’te TUSAŞ’ın ezber bozan ürünleri ile ilgili son gelişmeleri...

www.sabah.com.tr

I don't know how to read this. 3 is the first 3 production helicopters given to JnGK. But they also built 4 more prototype/test models on the same line and TC-HLR is one of them? Or "4 prototypes" refer to the 4 original prototypes and HLR is a re-registry. Or gendarme livery TC-HLV was reclassed and delivered to JnGK and HLR was built to replace that for testing?

I think they built 3 as prototype then when finalizing the design they built 4 for testing mass production. They literally promised to deliver 2 each month since 2024.

 

[begturan]

Note that Atak has both an integrated jammer and a jammer pod.

There are so many details in a combat vehicle and we have many of these critical technologies that can be called details, this is really a great pride. We have now reached an important point regarding the power package that our people have been asking nonstop.

BUT will the domestic power pack used in Gökbey be used in the Attack helicopter? What is the status of Pakistan's attack helicopter purchase, which has been waiting for an answer for years?

 

[Saithan]

Pakistan went with Chinese Z-something I think because Turkey could not deliver on a promise they made.

 

[Yasar_TR]

BUT will the domestic power pack used in Gökbey be used in the Attack helicopter? What is the status of Pakistan's attack helicopter purchase, which has been waiting for an answer for years?

This issue was discussed here before. T-129 Atak, albeit a Turkish built helicopter, it is a Turco-Italian joint venture project that allows us to produce it under licenses. Italians get their share from each sale of helicopter.

Although not confirmed, what makes T-129, as T-129, is the contractually accepted basics. It has to have a Honeywell CTS-800 engine which is manufactured under license in TEI. By another few years (2028) , the license to produce the helicopter will expire. What this expiration will mean we don’t know. But in the mean time, our T-129s have to be powered by the CTS-800 engines.

TS1400 engine is ready for serial production to fly civilian Gokbey. It already flew with one. But needs civilian certification.
To fly a T-129, the TS1400 engine needs special accessories to militarise it. As per Prof Aksit has pointed out it needs for example a new oil pump system so that when the aircraft tilts too much or makes a loop the engine is still well oiled. But TEI have not yet been advised to develop a militarised TS1400. Probably because the TS1400 can not contractually power T-129. (This issue was “insinuated” as being the case by Prof Aksit in one of his interviews)

So unless US releases the engine sale to Pakistan, the Atak will not be heading PAK way.

 

[Saithan]

Probably because the TS1400 can not contractually power T-129. (This issue was “insinuated” as being the case by Prof Aksit in one of his interviews)

So unless US releases the engine sale to Pakistan, the Atak will not be heading to PAK way.

If I understand this part right, the license production of T129 is locked on the CTS-800 engine, which means we can't offer it to anyone else as long as we use the design from Italy and engine from US.

Thus we'd need to develop a new helicopter with our own design and fit it with TS1400. Am I correct ?

 

[Yasar_TR]

If I understand this part right, the license production of T129 is locked on the CTS-800 engine, which means we can't offer it to anyone else as long as we use the design from Italy and engine from US.

Thus we'd need to develop a new helicopter with our own design and fit it with TS1400. Am I correct ?

It does sound like that. There could be a change of license agreement. No agreement is written in stone. Even the production of 109 Blackhawks‘ engine license agreement has a clause that we could alter it with approval from GE.
I guess the whole point of T629 was to overcome this stumbling block.

EDIT:
Ha ha ha!
@Strong AI you have just beaten me with a few seconds.

You are correct. It is in the backburner and/or shelved for the time

 

[Saithan]

In that case cancelling the T629 makes even less sense because the weight was much closer to T129 and that in itself would mean that we would have been able to deliver our own engine to a combat helicopter much sooner than a drawing on a paper.

with drones and loitering ammo in the air, and with Ukraine shooting down a fighterjet with a drone we've entered a new era, and all we got is Gökbey with CTS-800.

 

[Yasar_TR]

In that case cancelling the T629 makes even less sense because the weight was much closer to T129 and that in itself would mean that we would have been able to deliver our own engine to a combat helicopter much sooner than a drawing on a paper.

with drones and loitering ammo in the air, and with Ukraine shooting down a fighterjet with a drone we've entered a new era, and all we got is Gökbey with CTS-800.

Apart from Attack helicopters becoming natural and easy targets for drones and many air defence systems, T-129 has certain deficiencies that were subject for complaints. Being light and weak armoured were some of them. It had balancing issues. The force really had it’s hearts set in a heavy Atak-2.
But currently, the Atak helicopter fills in the need for our attack helicopter needs. It performs really well in the terrain it is operated.
We have to prioritise where we need to invest carefully in the short term. A T-925 is more urgent than a heavier attack helicopter at the moment. Armed forces etc have nearly 80+ of T-129 delivered or about to be delivered. There is no immediate need for more.

 

[I_Love_F16]

@Yasar_TR I thought TAI had the exclusive IP right of the T-129 ?

 

[Sanchez]

@Yasar_TR I thought TAI had the exclusive IP right of the T-129 ?

That part of the deal is a bit vague. Agusta/Leonardo didn't offer A129 to anyone after Turkey.

 

[Yasar_TR]

@Yasar_TR I thought TAI had the exclusive IP right of the T-129 ?

Under the agreement, Turkey has full marketing and intellectual rights of the T-129 helicopter.
But not of the foreign sourced components of the helicopter like the engines. The transmission was developed and built jointly by Tusas and Leonardo. Turkey probably has full rights over that too.

We may have full IP rights for the helicopter. But the joint partnership of the platform itself between Tusas and Leonardo, where the latter has provided the base platform and it’s technology has a say as a partner.
Tusas here has been focusing on indigenous development of mission computers, avionics, weapons systems, and other components. And holds full Intellectual Property rights.

But Leonardo, (Then Augusta Westland) must have provided the original design , and the contract drawn out must have stipulated the use of a CTS-800 engine which would be licence produced at TEI.

Edit:
I think we can sell it to anyone but Italy or UK!!!

 

[begturan]

This issue was discussed here before. T-129 Atak, albeit a Turkish built helicopter, it is a Turco-Italian joint venture project that allows us to produce it under licenses. Italians get their share from each sale of helicopter.

Although not confirmed, what makes T-129, as T-129, is the contractually accepted basics. It has to have a Honeywell CTS-800 engine which is manufactured under license in TEI. By another few years (2028) , the license to produce the helicopter will expire. What this expiration will mean we don’t know. But in the mean time, our T-129s have to be powered by the CTS-800 engines.

TS1400 engine is ready for serial production to fly civilian Gokbey. It already flew with one. But needs civilian certification.
To fly a T-129, the TS1400 engine needs special accessories to militarise it. As per Prof Aksit has pointed out it needs for example a new oil pump system so that when the aircraft tilts too much or makes a loop the engine is still well oiled. But TEI have not yet been advised to develop a militarised TS1400. Probably because the TS1400 can not contractually power T-129. (This issue was “insinuated” as being the case by Prof Aksit in one of his interviews)

So unless US releases the engine sale to Pakistan, the Atak will not be heading PAK way.

Everything is clear enough, i got to point, thank you for your efforts.

 

[Sanchez]

Our best look yet to an air force T70 CSAR helicopter with its LWR, MWR, RWR, RF jammer, FLIR and winch. Not sure about the winch, but rest are Aselsan products. Such a complete, great package. I do hope T70 issue is soon resolved and we can continue production.

 

[Pete Mitchell Maverick]

This color added a different atmosphere to the helicopter.