TR TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

TheInsider

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But developing these technologies especially film cooling and double layer TBC is a challenge it takes more than a decade of consistent efforts.
Those studies started a decade ago give or take a few years. They are not recent developments. We haven't started those studies recently.
SX blade development goes back to 2010. It just doesn't appear out of thin air.
 

TheInsider

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2nd gen SCB can withstand temp upto 1120° C, with every generation there is gain of upto 30°c.

• SC casted blade, with a decently designed blade cooling techniques, would allow this advantage to go upto ~400 deg C.

• Thermal Barrier Coating (TBC) application - Generally, the 7-8 wt% Yttria Stabilized Zirconia (8YSZ) TBC provides 150 deg C advantage.

A bilayer top-coat consisting of Lanthanum Zirconate (LZ) over 8YSZ applied over "traditional" bond coat of say NiCrAlY enhances the temperature capability of the coating by >100deg.

But developing these technologies especially film cooling and double layer TBC is a challenge it takes more than a decade of consistent efforts. Let's not even talk about rotor CMC blades.
Now that is a quality read that explains everything in detail.
 

Nilgiri

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You are trying to distort what I am actually saying to create an argumentative case. If you are an engineer you will undrestand what I mean.
If the bottom and top limit is between 1400K and 1800K, then usually the mean temperature is where the engine works at optimum conditions. When you are an engineer you produce a part that will operate at higher specs than needed to give consistency and longer life to that part. That turbine blade may withstand 1800Kelvin. But at that temperature it’s life will be shorter. You test the part you have produced and set a spec for optimum usage.
They must have checked this and found that to achieve a long life with the turbine blades at top power level, 1400Degrees Celcius (which is 1573Kelvin) gives the 1600HP this engine delivers. Hence, they have been quoting the top 1400degrees Celsius as turbine temperature level to the media. When the engine coasts at cruising speeds under minimum load and power output, the turbine temperatures would be much lower. Ask any pilot how much life they take out of an engine’s life each time they do a somersault. This is when they push the blades way beyond their limits.

Essentially its normal distribution in play.

Folks are still using temperatures implying some kind of binary ability/non-ability that you "reach" like some milestone with SX + cooling.

An X temperature proven mean does not suddenly stop working at higher (X+Y) temperature (unless its well past say ~ 70% of melting point seen by the SX superalloy material).

Rather you will just start to take an operational penalty (and it can be overall costly one for the larger system downtime frequency + availability that is bounded to its propulsion package).

The distribution (creep intensity condition 1 vs intensity 2 with same base "quality") will shift somewhat similar to comparing two different "qualities" of gas turbine (with say same creep intensity profile applied) as I presented ad-hoc earlier in this other thread:


(along with the other replies/context in that thread)

There is then a further integral (depending on expected times spent at various temps + conditions) to get an overall "expected" (its why some gas turbines and jet engines dont need this much rigour and cost)

Minimizing that shift is not a trivial task as it is not linear issue (as I gave with the ant vs human analogy earlier) when you increase the size of the engine.

In fact it is mostly a summation of non-linear issues. This is why cooling strategies become commensurately more difficult whatever SX tier you have at the blade core itself.

Soundbites are not substitutes for the comprehensive approach needed. Latter can only be proven in hindsight.

There is no "there will be more real estate on the blade" so its "easier".

In fact I can go through each issue somewhat one by one later, if there is interest and time and scope for it in this thread.

Not just creep and cooling needs cascading.... but also other low cycle and high cycle fatigue feedback loops (on the blade becoming more complicated and also a vital + expensive aircraft that needs to be entirely downtimed if the engine is down).

The sensitivity analysis of various failure modes as it relates to operational MRO and thus the long term cost/viability (why a tip failure can be fixed a number of times without needing entire blade replacement....whereas shank failure needs replacement).

Corrosion, coating failure propensity, repair methods available.... you name it (for the overall cost and viability scope compared to smaller blade of smaller engine).

There is a reason we are at an apex generally speaking with jet engines ) in general (i.e why can't we just keep scaling them up to larger and larger sizes, since we can surely just keep cooling more and adding TBC more to a larger and larger SX blade surely?...to deal with the higher and higher Turb inlet temp et al.).

We are at the physical limit of this tech more or less given the basic physics thresholds of the materials involved themselves.

Every advancement is not linear like before, its highly non-linear investment to gain less (diminishing returns) of whats left in brayton cycle.
 

Ecderha

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F110 engine of 28 planes is ready, he says we will use our own engine after 28th plane?

IF I was Him I will never SAY the TRUE about CURRENT STATE with F110 engines
EVEN more if it is Turkiye own ENGINE I WILL NEVER SAY Anything until TF-X is ready and people can see it on the sky

IT is THE MOST CRUCIAL Tech and Future of Turkiye...............All our psudo Allies did ALL to push Turkiye down and They looking for info about in what state is engine

Temel Kotil's MUST STOP TALKING about Turkiye own engine .....................NO info period.................:mad:
 

Zafer

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F110 engine of 28 planes is ready, he says we will use our own engine after 28th plane?
Number 28 is for 2028, Temel Kotil says that Türkiye will have the national engine for the TFX in 2028. How many engines do we have for prototypes, as I hear from Turkish media we have F110 engines for 7 planes prototype or not.
 

Baryshx

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IF I was Him I will never SAY the TRUE about CURRENT STATE with F110 engines
EVEN more if it is Turkiye own ENGINE I WILL NEVER SAY Anything until TF-X is ready and people can see it on the sky

IT is THE MOST CRUCIAL Tech and Future of Turkiye...............All our psudo Allies did ALL to push Turkiye down and They looking for info about in what state is engine

Temel Kotil's MUST STOP TALKING about Turkiye own engine .....................NO info period.................:mad:
He doesn't think it's important that it's known. Also, I think a certain number of engines will continue to come. Already engines are produced in Tei.
 

B.t.N

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IF I was Him I will never SAY the TRUE about CURRENT STATE with F110 engines
EVEN more if it is Turkiye own ENGINE I WILL NEVER SAY Anything until TF-X is ready and people can see it on the sky

IT is THE MOST CRUCIAL Tech and Future of Turkiye...............All our psudo Allies did ALL to push Turkiye down and They looking for info about in what state is engine

Temel Kotil's MUST STOP TALKING about Turkiye own engine .....................NO info period.................:mad:
So you are trying to tell us there is no divine inspiration, and no interception behind this? By the way, does number 28 have any meaning in astrology?
 

Ecderha

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So you are trying to tell us there is no divine inspiration, and no interception behind this? By the way, does number 28 have any meaning in astrology?

I am saying "IT is THE MOST CRUCIAL Tech and Future of Turkiye" and Temel Kotil's MUST STOP TALKING about Turkiye own engine.
They must hide any details until engine is ready and fitted to TF-X

About "By the way, does number 28 have any meaning in astrology?" any people and we know that there lot of people which WANT to believe on conspiracy or Special secrets............then YES .......there is Astrology meaning .................
 

B.t.N

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He doesn't think it's important that it's known. Also, I think a certain number of engines will continue to come. Already engines are produced in Tei.
And you are saying we have the engines for the initial TFX squadron already accounted for?
 

B.t.N

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I am saying "IT is THE MOST CRUCIAL Tech and Future of Turkiye" and Temel Kotil's MUST STOP TALKING about Turkiye own engine.
They must hide any details until engine is ready and fitted to TF-X

About "By the way, does number 28 have any meaning in astrology?" any people and we know that there lot of people which WANT to believe on conspiracy or Special secrets............then YES .......there is Astrology meaning .................
Crocodiles swallow stones to dive deeper bro!
 

Baris

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According to Temel Kotil, 2 prototypes will be built with Turkish engines by 2028. According to Temel Kotil, by 2028 prototypes with Turkish engines will start flying, so this means by 2028 Turkish engines will have completed ground tests. TF-X planes with F110 engines will be delivered to the Turkish air force in 2028.
 

Lool

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According to Temel Kotil, 2 prototypes will be built with Turkish engines by 2028. According to Temel Kotil, by 2028 prototypes with Turkish engines will start flying, so this means by 2028 Turkish engines will have completed ground tests. TF-X planes with F110 engines will be delivered to the Turkish air force in 2028.
What does he exactly mean by "Turkish engines"
Does he mean a national built engine? In 6 years only? That is insane if just outright impossible. The only possible explanation is that TEI has been initiating the building process of an engine before 2020 at least
 

Lool

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Hurjet is al ready structurel completed :) ...

According to Temil Kotil, the national engine design is already completed
That means that the next stage is production of a prototype and this may be plausible in 6 years until TFX flies with a national engine
 

Ecderha

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According to Temil Kotil, the national engine design is already completed
That means that the next stage is production of a prototype and this may be plausible in 6 years until TFX flies with a national engine

1.For most of us here it is that WE THINK that Turkiye start work on engines 6 year ago......But it may be not True
2. At present we see lot of products showed to us because of last few years Turkiye build it the Factories which is used to assemble the engines and also to test it
3. We do not know anything about engineers or I should say Architects when they started the project to develop engine using Computers for making the Model and building OWN Library as knowledge

At moment I think it is correct to say that it may be they talking about building the engine parts......... then assemble it .............and test it......fix some issues and repeat that !?
 

Zafer

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1.For most of us here it is that WE THINK that Turkiye start work on engines 6 year ago......But it may be not True
2. At present we see lot of products showed to us because of last few years Turkiye build it the Factories which is used to assemble the engines and also to test it
3. We do not know anything about engineers or I should say Architects when they started the project to develop engine using Computers for making the Model and building OWN Library as knowledge

At moment I think it is correct to say that it may be they talking about building the engine parts......... then assemble it .............and test it......fix some issues and repeat that !?
It was a few weeks ago that they said the production of the TF6000 engine prototype was started. They would probably want to see that prototype running well before they start putting together a prototype of any other engine. So I expect that it will be a couple of years before we see the Özgün engine prototype assembled.
 

Huelague

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Some questions will be answered here. About numbers of prototypes (TFX) and about armed Gökbey.
 
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