TR Missile & Smart Munition Programs

İoannis Theodoratos said:

What ship they can use to carry out naval tests of MİDAS after land tests? Could they simulate the tests on land?

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Most likely they will use the same testbed used for ÇAFRAD.

There is a lot of rumour going on in the media about the VLS purchase from the US for the I-Class frigate that it has undergone embargo restrictions.
The last time I looked in to it, the sale of this VLS via BAE Systems, was approved by the US Senate. Have they rescinded their decision?
Also there is talk about not being able to purchase ESSM from US For the new ships. Again, as far as I know Roketsan is a joint developer and manufacturer of these missiles. Are they doing a F35 style move on these as well?
Have we not produced G40 missile using our knowledge an expertise on the ESSM?
As I can see it none of these rumours have any substance. But then , we were joint partners in f35 Project!!

KTJ3200 turbo jet engine develped by Kale Engineering has ben tested. This engine will power SOM , SOM-J and Atmaca missiles.
After the last test it will be ready for serial production. Deliveries of SOM-J with the new engine is expected next year.

Yasar said:

There is a lot of rumour going on in the media about the VLS purchase from the US for the I-Class frigate that it has undergone embargo restrictions.
The last time I looked in to it, the sale of this VLS via BAE Systems, was approved by the US Senate. Have they rescinded their decision?
Also there is talk about not being able to purchase ESSM from US For the new ships. Again, as far as I know Roketsan is a joint developer and manufacturer of these missiles. Are they doing a F35 style move on these as well?
Have we not produced G40 missile using our knowledge an expertise on the ESSM?
As I can see it none of these rumours have any substance. But then , we were joint partners in f35 Project!!

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Talked about in Naval programs section, some people just like to make things up, presuming CAATSA to be in action after Biden and his team has came to the power.

TRG 122 Artillery Rocket System
Range : 16-35 KM
Guidance : GPS/INS


TRG 300 Kaplan Artillery Rocket System
Range : 30-120 KM
Guidance : GPS/INS


Bora(Khan) Artillery Rocket System
Range : 80-280 KM
Guidance : GPS/INS




Looks like Roketsan opened a youtube channel.

guest12 said:

Looks like Roketsan opened a youtube channel.

TRG 122 Artillery Rocket System
Range : 16-35 KM
Guidance : GPS/INS

TRG 300 Kaplan Artillery Rocket System
Range : 30-120 KM
Guidance : GPS/INS

Bora(Khan) Artillery Rocket System
Range : 80-280 KM
Guidance : GPS/INS

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Bora range is misprinted: Correct range is 80-280km.

Zafer said:

Bora range is misprinted: Correct range is 80-280km.

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Stated to be around 360km, which makes sense since Bora utilises composite materials and Khan does not.

Don't fight in vain. Khan export model and software limited. It also uses a metallic case, so their range is at this level. Bora is composite and has 350+ range.

Guys comparing ESSM which has 4-5 mach speed ( and 40km range) with Barak 8 that has speed just 2mach, we can understand that just lowering speed israelis reach 80-100km range. Is there any information about speed of HISARA and HISAR-O?
Could Hisar + variants reach longer range by lowering speed?

UkroTurk said:

Guys comparing ESSM which has 4-5 mach speed ( and 40km range) with Barak 8 that has speed just 2mach, we can understand that just lowering speed israelis reach 80-100km range. Is there any information about speed of HISARA and HISAR-O?
Could Hisar + variants reach longer range by lowering speed?

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Speed and agility are not just about the speed of your arrival. These values are calculated precisely, when you do not need speed, you can hit a cargo plane hundreds of kilometers away by adding a radar seeker head on the Yıldırım or Bora body (it will probably be like the Sonda Rocket because the Yıldırım is thinner).

RadarGudumluMuhimmat said:

Speed and agility are not just about the speed of your arrival. These values are calculated precisely, when you do not need speed, you can hit a cargo plane hundreds of kilometers away by adding a radar seeker head on the Yıldırım or Bora body (it will probably be like the Sonda Rocket because the Yıldırım is thinner).

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Okay i agree with you. But Barak 8 missiles have 2 mach speed.??

( However yıldırım, Bora etc artillery rockets can reach high speed 3-4 mach after launching. But they can't be used as SAM because they need to be controlled. When you throughly manage your rocket , it means :you get a missile. Anyway let's talk about Barak 8 )

Did jews find optimal SAM speed for long range as 2 mach?

UkroTurk said:

Okay i agree with you. But Barak 8 missiles have 2 mach speed.??

( However yıldırım, Bora etc artillery rockets can reach high speed 3-4 mach after launching. But they can't be used as SAM because they need to be controlled. When you throughly manage your rocket , it means :you get a missile. Anyway let's talk about Barak 8 )

Did jews find optimal SAM speed for long range as 2 mach?

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Have you checked the length and width of both missiles?
Barak 8
275 kg, 4.5m in length, 22/54cm diameter, 2 Mach speed, range 100km
ESSM
280 Kg, 3.7m in length, 25cm diameter, 4 Mach speed, range 50+km( more like 70km)


They are quite different types of rockets In their designs.
they may look like each other and may have been envisaged from one another. But that is where similarities stop.
Barak 8 has a booster. This gives it the extra range. It also has a dual pulse rocket motor. This means after booster is discarded, it travels at reasonable speed with first fuel tank then as speed drops second tank is used to give it the terminal killer speed.
Essm is a solid fuelled 4+ Mach rocket. It could stop supersonic cruise missiles.

Bora missile is a hypersonic quasi ballistic tactical missile. It is 2.5 ton in weight. Being Quasi ballistic; it behaves like a ballistic missile but it’s flight is not quite like a ballistic missile. Also it’s apogee is 40-50km. So it uses its motor to reach this altitude then starts to dive back to earth. Because of the rare air and hence very low air drag at that altitude it gains speed as it approaches ground. It reaches hypersonic speeds (5+ Mach) . But at 15 km, the air starts becoming denser and the drag increases. As per terminal velocity rules when it hits it’s target, it may be travelling at around 3-4 Mach depending on how heavy, how perpendicular it is to target and how aerodynamic it is.

Tubitak is working on ramjet engine. If everything goes well Roketsan can develop AA missiles with ramjet in several years.

I was wondering how much the combination of ramjet missile on Akinci UCAV would help our air defenses

We have the classical thought of fast jet with missile in our mind, but since UCAV's get more and more operational we should switch our mindset as well. Fast jet is not really needed when the missile does the work. Fast jet advantage is only when you want intercept roles.

Ramjet missiles are fast (Mach6) and long range (200 - 300km range or even more). Most problematic part is detection of enemy fighter jet (especially if she is stealth)

Question: is it possible to use Akinci like UCAV's in air defense roles? Say equipped with AA ramjet missiles, but there is a long range airborne AESA radar needed for detection.

Nutuk said:

Tubitak is working on ramjet engine. If everything goes well Roketsan can develop AA missiles with ramjet in several years.

I was wondering how much the combination of ramjet missile on Akinci UCAV would help our air defenses

We have the classical thought of fast jet with missile in our mind, but since UCAV's get more and more operational we should switch our mindset as well. Fast jet is not really needed when the missile does the work. Fast jet advantage is only when you want intercept roles.

Ramjet missiles are fast (Mach6) and long range (200 - 300km range or even more). Most problematic part is detection of enemy fighter jet (especially if she is stealth)

Question: is it possible to use Akinci like UCAV's in air defense roles? Say equipped with AA ramjet missiles, but there is a long range airborne AESA radar needed for detection.

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A high-subsonic MIUS or better a supersonic Goksungur with meteor-like missiles are force-multipliers. With datalink from ground radars and awacs, they can fire their missiles from 200km away without needing on-board radar. But the bigger question is: is this concept reliable enough in terms of communication and data-linkage or are manned fighter still needed in a heavy electronic interference situation?

Communication should not be a problem, cos modern link systems enable shooting of a missile from platform A but being guided by platform B

I think our biggest handicap is airborne radars, we have only 4 peace eagle platforms.

We should think about flying radars (mounted on UCAV's)

For instance Aksungur that can stay 40h airborne carrying a big AESA radar

Nutuk said:

Tubitak is working on ramjet engine. If everything goes well Roketsan can develop AA missiles with ramjet in several years.

I was wondering how much the combination of ramjet missile on Akinci UCAV would help our air defenses

We have the classical thought of fast jet with missile in our mind, but since UCAV's get more and more operational we should switch our mindset as well. Fast jet is not really needed when the missile does the work. Fast jet advantage is only when you want intercept roles.

Ramjet missiles are fast (Mach6) and long range (200 - 300km range or even more). Most problematic part is detection of enemy fighter jet (especially if she is stealth)

Question: is it possible to use Akinci like UCAV's in air defense roles? Say equipped with AA ramjet missiles, but there is a long range airborne AESA radar needed for detection.

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Baykar MİUS is already being developed for air to ground bombardment. We need UCAV to be developed for air-to-air warfare. You cannot send UCAV to air-to-air battles at Mach 0.8. That speed should be at least Mach 1.4. This is necessary to maintain maneuverability and high payload in long-range air to air battles. A UCAV should be able to do its job with its electronic warfare capacity, ISR equipment and Soft Kill systems. A UCAV should primarily be highly autonomous with its sensor capabilities and artificial intelligence. You cannot control it from a distance of 400 km like Anka.

Nutuk said:

Tubitak is working on ramjet engine. If everything goes well Roketsan can develop AA missiles with ramjet in several years.

I was wondering how much the combination of ramjet missile on Akinci UCAV would help our air defenses

We have the classical thought of fast jet with missile in our mind, but since UCAV's get more and more operational we should switch our mindset as well. Fast jet is not really needed when the missile does the work. Fast jet advantage is only when you want intercept roles.

Ramjet missiles are fast (Mach6) and long range (200 - 300km range or even more). Most problematic part is detection of enemy fighter jet (especially if she is stealth)

Question: is it possible to use Akinci like UCAV's in air defense roles? Say equipped with AA ramjet missiles, but there is a long range airborne AESA radar needed for detection.

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We will use them in air defence roles but Akinci will be a big target for fast manned fighters when they are detected. I think the detection ranges of manned aircrafts’ AESA radars will be longer than the one Akinci has so Turboprop Akinci should be operated inside same network with other striking units. Akinci-like unmanned and relatively slow drones should fire the missiles before enemy aircrafts and It is only possible when they are linked with airborne early warning radars. MIUS with 950km/h and 1t missile payload will be more convenient to AA engagagement roles.

Bogeyman said:

Baykar MİUS is already being developed for air to ground bombardment. We need UCAV to be developed for air-to-air warfare. You cannot send UCAV to air-to-air battles at Mach 0.8. That speed should be at least Mach 1.4. This is necessary to maintain maneuverability and high payload in long-range air to air battles. A UCAV should be able to do its job with its electronic warfare capacity, ISR equipment and Soft Kill systems. A UCAV should primarily be highly autonomous with its sensor capabilities and artificial intelligence. You cannot control it from a distance of 400 km like Anka.

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An AI sporting unmanned Hürjet fits nicely in the bill. It can be an optionally manned as well. An UCAV that features a full set of sensors and weapons is not far from a Hürjet class plane anyway both in capability and in cost. Therefore Hürjet that leaves the pilot at home is a good option for such a role.

Cabatli_53 said:

We will use them in air defence roles but Akinci will be a big target for fast manned fighters when they are detected. I think the detection ranges of manned aircrafts’ AESA radars will be longer than the one Akinci has so Turboprop Akinci should be operated inside same network with other striking units. Akinci-like unmanned and relatively slow drones should fire the missiles before enemy aircrafts and It is only possible when they are linked with airborne early warning radars. MIUS with 950km/h and 1t missile payload will be more convenient to AA engagagement roles.

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I was not thinking about the AESA light radar that Akinci is supposed to get, but a big new radar with considerable range carried in some way by aksungur or Akinci. (kinda like UAV AWACS)

And yes Hurjet in these roles could also be, but still we'd need airborne radars (more than the 4 peace eagles)