Afghan Vice President Amrullah Saleh raises Durand Line issue with Pakistan, says Peshawar used to belong to Afghanistan

[Saiyan0321]

During an interview with Tolo News on 7th September, Amrullah Saleh, the Vice President Afghanistan, raised the Durand Line issue with Pakistan. He said that no Afghan politician of national stature could overlook the issue of the Durand Line. It will condemn him or her forever. He added, “It is an issue which needs discussions & resolution. Expecting us to gift it for free is un-realistic. Peshawar used to be the winter capital of Afghanistan.”

Afghan vice president stirs up Durand Line issue with Pakistan, says it needs resolution

Afghanistan Vice President Amrullah Saleh raises Durand Line issue with Pakistan, says Peshawar used to be the Afghan winter capital. | OpIndia News

www.opindia.com

Now this is a great example of how not to raise objection in a manner that it would be perceived as acquiescence.

You see this was done in an interview and not through diplomatic channel and as i have stated before that Afghanistan has never raised a proper objection diplomatically or claimed that XYZ actions are illegal vis a vis that we see when India raises issue with Pakistan administration in Kashmir or when Pakistan raises issue with Indian administration in Kashmir. Its greatest example is that India has contested every amendment made to the Constitution of AJK 1974 and they have contested the Constitution as well and Pakistan has done the same wherever it felt India was bring change. This makes sure that Acquiescence does not seep through. Now coming back to this statement. Not only is this silent protest done in an interview and not through diplomatic channels which means that this objection is no objection, and it is done in this manner where he is neither claiming territories ( he is pointing to a historical fact) nor declaring that there doesnt exist any border. He speaks of an issue between two countries. Now this has been stated due to the fact that Ghani has been under pressure by the opposition to come clean as to why Pakistan is being allowed to fence and being allowed to grab villages and mountain peaks or whether the government has done a deal with them. Everybody knows that the durand line is now recognized but it is now a political tool to weaken the sitting government and strengthen the opposition that will claim that they are the greatest guardians on Afghan sovereignty

 

[Saithan]

During an interview with Tolo News on 7th September, Amrullah Saleh, the Vice President Afghanistan, raised the Durand Line issue with Pakistan. He said that no Afghan politician of national stature could overlook the issue of the Durand Line. It will condemn him or her forever. He added, “It is an issue which needs discussions & resolution. Expecting us to gift it for free is un-realistic. Peshawar used to be the winter capital of Afghanistan.”

Afghan vice president stirs up Durand Line issue with Pakistan, says it needs resolution

Afghanistan Vice President Amrullah Saleh raises Durand Line issue with Pakistan, says Peshawar used to be the Afghan winter capital. | OpIndia News

www.opindia.com

Now this is a great example of how not to raise objection in a manner that it would be perceived as acquiescence.

You see this was done in an interview and not through diplomatic channel and as i have stated before that Afghanistan has never raised a proper objection diplomatically or claimed that XYZ actions are illegal vis a vis that we see when India raises issue with Pakistan administration in Kashmir or when Pakistan raises issue with Indian administration in Kashmir. Its greatest example is that India has contested every amendment made to the Constitution of AJK 1974 and they have contested the Constitution as well and Pakistan has done the same wherever it felt India was bring change. This makes sure that Acquiescence does not seep through. Now coming back to this statement. Not only is this silent protest done in an interview and not through diplomatic channels which means that this objection is no objection, and it is done in this manner where he is neither claiming territories ( he is pointing to a historical fact) nor declaring that there doesnt exist any border. He speaks of an issue between two countries. Now this has been stated due to the fact that Ghani has been under pressure by the opposition to come clean as to why Pakistan is being allowed to fence and being allowed to grab villages and mountain peaks or whether the government has done a deal with them. Everybody knows that the durand line is now recognized but it is now a political tool to weaken the sitting government and strengthen the opposition that will claim that they are the greatest guardians on Afghan sovereignty

How much does Pakistan invest in their "regions", development and such.

In the past the turkish governments didn't invest in eastern Turkey because terrorists pretty much targetted business men, school teachers and such. School teachers getting killed by PKK was nearly an everyday/week occurance back then.

I am thinking that investing and letting a region grow along with having school teachers (pakistani) will help create a common culture and unity. I hope the Pashtuns are having a better life in Pakistan than their brethren in Afghanistan.

 

[Saiyan0321]

How much does Pakistan invest in their "regions", development and such.

Well considering our pockets and the relationship between the two nations since 1946 ( yes a year before our formation), way too much to be brutally honest. They will dislike us no matter what we do but our development would be somewhere between 1 bil in assistance for road projects and infrastructure. Alot of the non-monetary investment is student scholarship and medical passages. Before we built this fence, the border was totally open. You could stand near the Soulemani range and jump left and right saying 'I am in Pakistan' 'I am in Afghanistan'. At that time, kids would come from afghanistan easily and study in Pakistan schools across the 2750 km border. Come study and go. No NIC required, no nothing,. Since Pakistani schools were much better than the Afghan schools ( non existence of such outside their major cities), it was a good option to get your child a good education and then he would apply for refugee and start working in Pakistan.

This ended by 2016 when we the entire border become a hotbed for terrorism and every gain in FATA seemed like a lost cause. We started to fence the border and fenced it and made forts and made check points and told Afghanistan that they need to apply for VISA otherwise dont bother. That has changed the relationship entirely. We are justified as well. An open border with Afghanistan, it cant be explained how dangerous it was and to this day is however atleats the terrorists that would enter and blow up, now fight at the fence and checkposts.

In the past the turkish governments didn't invest in eastern Turkey because terrorists pretty much targetted business men, school teachers and such. School teachers getting killed by PKK was nearly an everyday/week occurance back then.

Yeah terrorists do that. The TTP did that and the Baluch terrorist groups used to do that at a massive scale and still do. The thing is such actions turn the local populace against them and then they help tackle those groups.

I am thinking that investing and letting a region grow along with having school teachers (pakistani) will help create a common culture and unity. I hope the Pashtuns are having a better life in Pakistan than their brethren in Afghanistan.

Building over there is very hard. That was your country just like FATA and Baluchistan were ours so persistent efforts to bring schools and developments, despite terror attacks is not a drowned investment. For a foreign country where the local warlords rule and the local tribes rule, it would be catastrophic. We allow them to come through the border and study through scholarships and all and allow student visas and stuff. If an open border couldnt put a lid on hostility, nothing will.

Much Much Much better and amazingly after 18th amendment ( autonomy of provinces) they have done well. A far better life which is why the Refugees dont want to leave and want citizenship. The Pashtuns in Pakistan i.e. Pakistani Pashtuns want them gone as they see them as an impediment to their growth. Imran Khan was perhaps the most sympathetic of them all to refugee plight and he declared citizenship for them and the backlash he received on social media, of the public made him take a U-Turn on that. He also stopped the repatriation drive. You see the Refugee card is being renewed every year and in 2015, the people of Pakistan demanded they return and the government obliged and started a repatriation drive where they declared that in 6 months all cards will expire and any that would remain post that would be treated as an illegal alien. Although the government extended but in 2018, Imran stopped the drive and i dont think it will ever start with him at the helm. Point is that for them, the Pakistani side is absolutely heavenly, the agriculture, the gas reserved, the canal networks, the wealth, the education and the overall development is simply too much and this is why you would witness them come up with absurd claims to the land because it is too rich and they hate being repatriated and often declare that in Afghanistan, there is nothing.

 

[Saithan]

Much Much Much better and amazingly after 18th amendment ( autonomy of provinces) they have done well. A far better life which is why the Refugees dont want to leave and want citizenship. The Pashtuns in Pakistan i.e. Pakistani Pashtuns want them gone as they see them as an impediment to their growth. Imran Khan was perhaps the most sympathetic of them all to refugee plight and he declared citizenship for them and the backlash he received on social media, of the public made him take a U-Turn on that. He also stopped the repatriation drive. You see the Refugee card is being renewed every year and in 2015, the people of Pakistan demanded they return and the government obliged and started a repatriation drive where they declared that in 6 months all cards will expire and any that would remain post that would be treated as an illegal alien. Although the government extended but in 2018, Imran stopped the drive and i dont think it will ever start with him at the helm. Point is that for them, the Pakistani side is absolutely heavenly, the agriculture, the gas reserved, the canal networks, the wealth, the education and the overall development is simply too much and this is why you would witness them come up with absurd claims to the land because it is too rich and they hate being repatriated and often declare that in Afghanistan, there is nothing.

How realistic would it be to setup criteria for citizenship ?

I mean here in Denmark, if you marry a danish citizen, you are still required to go through language courses, and get an education plus have a full time job where you pay tax and have a home. In short you are not a burden to the danish state. and after 5 years you can get permanent residency permit, and later on you can take an exam for citizenship.

This is getting pretty normal in Europe. Illegal immigrants get sent back home.

Turkey implemented a "temp residency permit" sort of thing to allow Syrians to work and establish businesses so that they could contribute to the country instead of becoming a burden, I think this is still temporarily though. Unfortunately this IMO was also what EU wanted Turkey to do, which might be why RTE signed the refugee deal in 2016. But it is a huge burden to Turkey, and people are fed up.

Considering EU being 400+ mio and nearly caved in after getting some 1-1.5 mio refugee Turkey is doing a Herculean task of handling 4+ mio. refugees.

IMO they should be sent back to Syria to the safe zones. They are the only ones who can save Syria.

 

[Saiyan0321]

How realistic would it be to setup criteria for citizenship ?

I mean here in Denmark, if you marry a danish citizen, you are still required to go through language courses, and get an education plus have a full time job where you pay tax and have a home. In short you are not a burden to the danish state. and after 5 years you can get permanent residency permit, and later on you can take an exam for citizenship.

This is getting pretty normal in Europe. Illegal immigrants get sent back home.

Turkey implemented a "temp residency permit" sort of thing to allow Syrians to work and establish businesses so that they could contribute to the country instead of becoming a burden, I think this is still temporarily though. Unfortunately this IMO was also what EU wanted Turkey to do, which might be why RTE signed the refugee deal in 2016. But it is a huge burden to Turkey, and people are fed up.

Considering EU being 400+ mio and nearly caved in after getting some 1-1.5 mio refugee Turkey is doing a Herculean task of handling 4+ mio. refugees.

IMO they should be sent back to Syria to the safe zones. They are the only ones who can save Syria.

Well for that we would have to amend the current citizenship laws as well as declare the Afghan Refugees as not refugees since court decisions have declared that citizens who are governed by the Foreigners Act cannot apply for citizenship and the Afghans most certainly cant. I wrote about this as well.


Dr Saleema and various other Afghan refugees may have served Pakistan through its worst times but they can’t get Pakistan’s citizenship under the law. It’s time to fix the citizenship laws of the country, argues Usman Khan.

The United Nations and Pakistan recently honored an Afghan refugee, Dr Saleema Rehman, for fighting on the forefront against the Corona pandemic in Pakistan. This has reignited the debate on whether the refugees should be allotted Pakistani citizenship or not with many highlighting Dr Saleema’s contributions as proof of the impact the Afghan refugees have had. While it is settled that the Afghan refugees in Pakistan have contributed greatly to the local economy, we must try to understand why, despite living in Pakistan for three generations, they have not been granted Pakistani citizenship.

It is no secret that Pakistan is home to some of the most outdated laws in the region. Our citizenship law is also one of these. The citizenship of a person is covered under the ‘Pakistan Citizenship Act 1951’ comprising 23 sections, the ‘Pakistan Naturalization Act 1926’ comprising 12 and the ‘Foreigners Act 1946’ comprising 17 sections. Pakistan’s law of citizenship is primarily governed by the citizenship act of which sections 4 and 5 cover the citizenship concept of ‘Jus Soli’ (Law of the soil) and ‘Jus Sanguine’ (Law of the blood) respectively. Pakistan practices Jus Soli since section 4 clearly states that any person born within the confines of Pakistan is considered a citizen of Pakistan. Yet, the Afghan refugees remain without citizenship.



The status of the Afghan refugees can be understood through the various precedents the courts of Pakistan have set through their judgments.

In the “Saeed Abidi Mehmood vs Nadra” case in 2017, Islamabad High Court determined, placing reliance on ‘PLD 2012 SC 501’ and ‘PLD 2012 SC 923’, that any person born within the confines of Pakistan shall be considered a citizen of Pakistan. The petitioner, in this case, was not an Afghan refugee but the son of a Somali migrant. The court ordered NADRA to provide him with citizenship immediately and then highlighted why the hospitality could not be extended to the Afghan refugees by stating that the Afghans have been granted refugee status for temporary stay under the UNHCR mandate and the status of the refugee declared in the United Nations Convention 1951. With that the court highlighted

“Once a person has been declared refugee he cannot claim benefit under The Pakistan Citizenship Act, 1951 in any manner and his status cannot be converted to any other position except he has been granted freedom of movement, residence permit, protection of the law and in some cases entitled for employment in private business and jobs except government authorities.”


Along with this, Peshawar high Court passed another judgment in the ‘Ghulam Sanai vs The Assistant Director e.t.c’ case where the petitioner, being the son of an Afghan refugee, cited his birth as well as property ownership within the country as a reason to be granted citizenship. However, Peshawar High Court highlighted that the simple stay of a foreigner within Pakistan, no matter how extended or long, will not change the status nor convert him into a citizen of the country automatically. The court stated that the issue of Afghan refugees is governed by the ‘Foreigners Act 1946’, not the ‘Citizenship Act 1951’, and thus they cannot claim the relief granted under the Citizenship Act. The court defined the Afghan refugees as Foreigners under section 2 sub-section A of the ‘Foreigners Act 1946’.



With the above case laws, we conclude that the status of the Afghan refugees is not that of a migrant. It is legally complicated and the courts have barred any citizenship to be conferred upon them. However, it is also true that the Pakistani citizenship laws are outdated and incompatible with the current situation within the country, and the world, concerning refugees. The Pakistani government is obligated to immediately take steps to work on the citizenship legislation so that these laws can be updated and the Afghan refugees can come to know of their status. Their future currently remains unclear. Dr Saleema will be one day denied the citizenship and be forced to return to Afghanistan, leaving a country where she worked her entire life and served the country courageously during her hour of great need

Dr Saleema's Heroic Fight Against COVID-19 Revives The Afghan Refugees' Citizenship Debate

The status of the Afghan refugees can be understood through the various precedents the courts of Pakistan have set through their judgments.

nayadaur.tv

So basically we would have to do alot of stuff. Now here is the thing. Pakistan didnt bar Afghan Refugees from working nor marrying. They have been living here for three generations and have married into Pakistani families and have business. The Carpet industry of Quetta is largely based on Afghans and their effort. They played a very important role in the economy of Quetta. The Issue takes sensitive nature due to politics. Let me just tell you one aspect of it amongst a dozen that Citizenship to Afghan refugees creates a fear amongst the baluch that they will become a minority in Baluchistan since 52% are baluchi and 35.5% are pashtuns. Now Brahui dont consider themselves baluchi and if we subtract them then the composition becomes 35.6% baluch 35.5% pashtuns.

Now add 3 million afghan refugees into this and you got yourself the politics. Now northern baluchistan is pashtun dominated and is the most developed region of baluchistan. This is just one aspect of Refugee politics. From terrorism to smuggling, there are many problems.

 

[Saithan]

Well for that we would have to amend the current citizenship laws as well as declare the Afghan Refugees as not refugees since court decisions have declared that citizens who are governed by the Foreigners Act cannot apply for citizenship and the Afghans most certainly cant. I wrote about this as well.


Dr Saleema and various other Afghan refugees may have served Pakistan through its worst times but they can’t get Pakistan’s citizenship under the law. It’s time to fix the citizenship laws of the country, argues Usman Khan.

The United Nations and Pakistan recently honored an Afghan refugee, Dr Saleema Rehman, for fighting on the forefront against the Corona pandemic in Pakistan. This has reignited the debate on whether the refugees should be allotted Pakistani citizenship or not with many highlighting Dr Saleema’s contributions as proof of the impact the Afghan refugees have had. While it is settled that the Afghan refugees in Pakistan have contributed greatly to the local economy, we must try to understand why, despite living in Pakistan for three generations, they have not been granted Pakistani citizenship.

It is no secret that Pakistan is home to some of the most outdated laws in the region. Our citizenship law is also one of these. The citizenship of a person is covered under the ‘Pakistan Citizenship Act 1951’ comprising 23 sections, the ‘Pakistan Naturalization Act 1926’ comprising 12 and the ‘Foreigners Act 1946’ comprising 17 sections. Pakistan’s law of citizenship is primarily governed by the citizenship act of which sections 4 and 5 cover the citizenship concept of ‘Jus Soli’ (Law of the soil) and ‘Jus Sanguine’ (Law of the blood) respectively. Pakistan practices Jus Soli since section 4 clearly states that any person born within the confines of Pakistan is considered a citizen of Pakistan. Yet, the Afghan refugees remain without citizenship.



The status of the Afghan refugees can be understood through the various precedents the courts of Pakistan have set through their judgments.

In the “Saeed Abidi Mehmood vs Nadra” case in 2017, Islamabad High Court determined, placing reliance on ‘PLD 2012 SC 501’ and ‘PLD 2012 SC 923’, that any person born within the confines of Pakistan shall be considered a citizen of Pakistan. The petitioner, in this case, was not an Afghan refugee but the son of a Somali migrant. The court ordered NADRA to provide him with citizenship immediately and then highlighted why the hospitality could not be extended to the Afghan refugees by stating that the Afghans have been granted refugee status for temporary stay under the UNHCR mandate and the status of the refugee declared in the United Nations Convention 1951. With that the court highlighted

“Once a person has been declared refugee he cannot claim benefit under The Pakistan Citizenship Act, 1951 in any manner and his status cannot be converted to any other position except he has been granted freedom of movement, residence permit, protection of the law and in some cases entitled for employment in private business and jobs except government authorities.”


Along with this, Peshawar high Court passed another judgment in the ‘Ghulam Sanai vs The Assistant Director e.t.c’ case where the petitioner, being the son of an Afghan refugee, cited his birth as well as property ownership within the country as a reason to be granted citizenship. However, Peshawar High Court highlighted that the simple stay of a foreigner within Pakistan, no matter how extended or long, will not change the status nor convert him into a citizen of the country automatically. The court stated that the issue of Afghan refugees is governed by the ‘Foreigners Act 1946’, not the ‘Citizenship Act 1951’, and thus they cannot claim the relief granted under the Citizenship Act. The court defined the Afghan refugees as Foreigners under section 2 sub-section A of the ‘Foreigners Act 1946’.



With the above case laws, we conclude that the status of the Afghan refugees is not that of a migrant. It is legally complicated and the courts have barred any citizenship to be conferred upon them. However, it is also true that the Pakistani citizenship laws are outdated and incompatible with the current situation within the country, and the world, concerning refugees. The Pakistani government is obligated to immediately take steps to work on the citizenship legislation so that these laws can be updated and the Afghan refugees can come to know of their status. Their future currently remains unclear. Dr Saleema will be one day denied the citizenship and be forced to return to Afghanistan, leaving a country where she worked her entire life and served the country courageously during her hour of great need

Dr Saleema's Heroic Fight Against COVID-19 Revives The Afghan Refugees' Citizenship Debate

The status of the Afghan refugees can be understood through the various precedents the courts of Pakistan have set through their judgments.

nayadaur.tv

So basically we would have to do alot of stuff. Now here is the thing. Pakistan didnt bar Afghan Refugees from working nor marrying. They have been living here for three generations and have married into Pakistani families and have business. The Carpet industry of Quetta is largely based on Afghans and their effort. They played a very important role in the economy of Quetta. The Issue takes sensitive nature due to politics. Let me just tell you one aspect of it amongst a dozen that Citizenship to Afghan refugees creates a fear amongst the baluch that they will become a minority in Baluchistan since 52% are baluchi and 35.5% are pashtuns. Now Brahui dont consider themselves baluchi and if we subtract them then the composition becomes 35.6% baluch 35.5% pashtuns.

Now add 3 million afghan refugees into this and you got yourself the politics. Now northern baluchistan is pashtun dominated and is the most developed region of baluchistan. This is just one aspect of Refugee politics. From terrorism to smuggling, there are many problems.

it sounds like current situation regarding citizenship shouldn't be amended until Pakistan has had it's "industrial revolution" and all layers of society has been raised up to a bare minimum.

Among other things national identity needs continuous work because the region is so mixed, and cultural ties pulls back to the past. So education is the only option as I see it.

 

[Saiyan0321]

it sounds like current situation regarding citizenship shouldn't be amended until Pakistan has had it's "industrial revolution" and all layers of society has been raised up to a bare minimum.

Among other things national identity needs continuous work because the region is so mixed, and cultural ties pulls back to the past. So education is the only option as I see it.

Indeed so and with CPEC being driven, it is very important that the situation in Baluchistan does not deteriorate. We have economic zones there and new agricultural projects and Gwadar port, we need to make sure the province does not get any reason to get engulfed in fire and till then we have been trying to create a more cohesive national identity which has been the central project for sometime. Infact by 2004, the army started inducting baluchistan into the armed forces and they number now in tens of thousands and FC, paramilitary has also been increased to induct baluchis. Education is important and we are trying as much as we can but that is a sector with its fair share of problems