Altay & Turkish Main Battle Tank Programs

Baljak

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Koreans are hardworking, I agree, and they have the know-how to an extend. But looking into details of the failure, I doubt they could work such a miracle, in just a year or two, to get a perfectly working transmission;)
I want to explain because many Turks still seem to know the wrong information about Korean-made transmission😂. Turkey plans to import Korean engines and transmissions for the Altay tank. The Korean EST15K transmission failed the test while traveling 7100km in the 9,600km endurance test. but the durability requirements of the Turkish Ministry of National Defense for the Altay engine and transmission require only 70% (6,700 km) of the 9,600 km endurance required by the South Korean Ministry of National Defense. This requirement even stated the performance requirements of the transmission when Turkey requested the Korea Defense Acquisition Program Administration to purchase a Korean engine in March 2021. So Turkey will import Korean transmission. The German transmission will not be used, so don't worry. I can definitely say that. Currently, the defect problem of the EST15K transmission has been resolved

And 3 days ago, the Agency for Defense Development said it was working on a project to improve TCU software for the EST15K transmission. Currently, TCU software used in Korean EST15K transmission is TCU software developed by ZF in Germany. Since Germany is currently banning arms exports to Turkey, it is necessary to change the German TCU software to Korean TCU software to export Korean transmissions to Turkey.

K-040.jpg

And on August 11, the Korea Defense Acquisition Program Administration posted a notice that it was looking for a Korean company to develop a transmission for Altay tank. And if you look at the notice posted by the Defense Acquisition Program Administration, you can see the word 개조개발(Modified development). What this means is that they are thinking of improving the transmission of EST15K and using it for Altay and K2 tanks. If my prediction is correct, now they are planning to improve the transmission of EST15K and use it for Altay and K2 tank.


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Baljak

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so are we going to be able to get them from Korea?
Under the current circumstances, I think Turkey is likely to get the engines and transmissions that will be used for the first production of the Altay tank from Korea. I think the improvement of the Korean EST15K transmission to be used for Altay will also be completed at the end of the development and testing of the Batu engine currently being developed in Turkey. Or it could be completed faster
 
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Baljak

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Thank you bro.

Just to clear out a few points, you are saying that the EST transmission had failed towards the end of the Korean endurance test, but still beyond the required range for acceptance in Turkey.

We have been reading multiple failures at different stages, those aside, does that mean the transmission is prone to failure (in present condition) past the 7000km mark?

I understand that the Korean administration has already given a go-ahead for revisions, but the timeline is a little vague on the improved, trouble-free version. Could you please flesh it out for us?
The test failure and defect of the Korean EST15K transmission began for a really trivial reason.

S&T, the developer of the transmission, designed the wrong cutting and bolt fastening when manufacturing the transmission. And because of this, the interior of the transmission was damaged during the 9,600km durability test, and the test was stopped. Later, the defect in the transmission was resolved, but when the Ministry of National Defense decided to use a German-made transmission for the tertiary production of the K2 tank, transmission developer S&T protested to the Ministry of National Defense. The failure of the durability test of a Korean transmission is not a defect in the performance of the transmission, but an incident caused by a minor design mistake by a transmission manufacturer. And because of this, there was a lot of controversy in Korea because the test for engine and transmission durability was given as an advantageous environment for German companies.

South Korea develops tanks or armored vehicles by referring to German durability test data. For example, when Germany developed the MT-883 Ka500 engine, it tested durability tests of more than 10000 km.

I don't know if you know, but in South Korea, 70% of the land is made up of mountains. So in South Korea, engine problems with armored vehicles occur really frequently. For this reason, South Korea's Ministry of National Defense does not approve the delivery of engines and transmissions unless it meets the 9,600km durability test. Fortunately, the Korean DV27K engine, which Turkey will import, passed the 9,600km durability test.

Currently, the improvement project of the EST15K transmission is underway, and the design of the transmission may be changed for use in K2 and Altay. The K2 tank is a 55-ton tank, and the Altay tank is 65-ton tank. However, the main operational topography of the Altay tank is not a mountain, but a low flatland or hill, so there is no need for a high-powered engine with more than 1,500 horsepower. Although the exact durability test criteria of the Altay tank's engine and transmission are unknown, the EST15K transmission is designed for use in engines of up to 1650 horsepower and tanks of 65 tons or more, so I don't think the 9600km durability test will fail even if the Altay tank uses a Korean transmission.
 
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Saithan

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The test failure and defect of the Korean EST15K transmission began for a really trivial reason.

S&T, the developer of the transmission, designed the wrong cutting and bolt fastening when manufacturing the transmission. And because of this, the interior of the transmission was damaged during the 9,600km durability test, and the test was stopped. Later, the defect in the transmission was resolved, but when the Ministry of National Defense decided to use a German-made transmission for the tertiary production of the K2 tank, transmission developer S&T protested to the Ministry of National Defense. The failure of the durability test of a Korean transmission is not a defect in the performance of the transmission, but an incident caused by a minor design mistake by a transmission manufacturer. And because of this, there was a lot of controversy in Korea because the test for engine and transmission durability was given as an advantageous environment for German companies.

South Korea develops German performance tests as a standard, especially when developing armored vehicles in the field of military weapons. For example, when Germany developed the MT-881 Ka500 engine, it tested durability tests of more than 10000 km.

I don't know if you know, but in South Korea, 70% of the land is made up of mountains. So in South Korea, engine problems with armored vehicles occur really frequently. For this reason, South Korea's Ministry of National Defense does not approve the delivery of engines and transmissions unless it meets the 9,600km durability test. Fortunately, the Korean DV27K engine, which Turkey will import, passed the 9,600km durability test.

Currently, the improvement project of the EST15K transmission is underway, and the design of the transmission may be changed for use in K2 and Altay. The K2 tank is a 55-ton tank, and the Altay tank is 65-ton tank. However, the main operational topography of the Altay tank is not a mountain, but a low flatland or hill, so there is no need for a high-powered engine with more than 1,500 horsepower. Although the exact durability test criteria of the Altay tank's engine and transmission are unknown, the EST15K transmission is designed to use up to 1650 horsepower engines, so I don't think the 9600km durability test will fail even if the Altay tank uses a Korean transmission.
Thank you for the very insightful explanation.
 

Nutuk

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What happened with the Leopard 2A4 modernization.

Is BMC that bad that they can't even deliver a modernization? Ethem de birakti kaçti
 

Kartal1

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We have been investing in innovative and affordable technologies for over a decade, I wonder if there is a tendency to revisit the NG project. Or, is it doomed to gather dust forever?
Actually the project of BMC is not bad with Altay turret. The problem here is the lack of trust for the quality implementation of this project. With the Leopard NG and also the Altay project Aselsan managed to develop many critical systems and system packages. There is no need to revisit the NG project as we can pull off even something better than that using the most recent technologies and products our suppliers can offer.
 

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Nilgiri

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The test failure and defect of the Korean EST15K transmission began for a really trivial reason.

S&T, the developer of the transmission, designed the wrong cutting and bolt fastening when manufacturing the transmission. And because of this, the interior of the transmission was damaged during the 9,600km durability test, and the test was stopped. Later, the defect in the transmission was resolved, but when the Ministry of National Defense decided to use a German-made transmission for the tertiary production of the K2 tank, transmission developer S&T protested to the Ministry of National Defense. The failure of the durability test of a Korean transmission is not a defect in the performance of the transmission, but an incident caused by a minor design mistake by a transmission manufacturer. And because of this, there was a lot of controversy in Korea because the test for engine and transmission durability was given as an advantageous environment for German companies.

South Korea develops tanks or armored vehicles by referring to German durability test data. For example, when Germany developed the MT-883 Ka500 engine, it tested durability tests of more than 10000 km.

I don't know if you know, but in South Korea, 70% of the land is made up of mountains. So in South Korea, engine problems with armored vehicles occur really frequently. For this reason, South Korea's Ministry of National Defense does not approve the delivery of engines and transmissions unless it meets the 9,600km durability test. Fortunately, the Korean DV27K engine, which Turkey will import, passed the 9,600km durability test.

Currently, the improvement project of the EST15K transmission is underway, and the design of the transmission may be changed for use in K2 and Altay. The K2 tank is a 55-ton tank, and the Altay tank is 65-ton tank. However, the main operational topography of the Altay tank is not a mountain, but a low flatland or hill, so there is no need for a high-powered engine with more than 1,500 horsepower. Although the exact durability test criteria of the Altay tank's engine and transmission are unknown, the EST15K transmission is designed for use in engines of up to 1650 horsepower and tanks of 65 tons or more, so I don't think the 9600km durability test will fail even if the Altay tank uses a Korean transmission.

Wow, I just read this now. Thank you!

Let us see how this goes....
 

Khagan1923

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Ridiculous!

But not a suprise. People should have paid attention when Erdogan's closest yandas sold his shares and has been a no-show since then.

And it all makes sense. Sakarya Factory was supposedly stopped because of bad soil but the soil is the FIRST THING that construction companies evaluate before deciding on a site.

That is was badly run was clear also seeing how many projects of its have defects that had to be figured out by third parties (majority of the time by the TSK) or plain never materialize in the given timeframe and then are not spoken about for years.

Leopard 2A4 modernization anyone? Have people forgotten the pathetic results they thought leaking on the internet was a good idea years ago?

And then they think they can slap on it Turret that is more expensive than the Leo Tank itself and parrot it around as if they have done something special. Former Tank crews and engineers have been laughing about it on the internet ever since they though showing it off was a good idea. Who knows what they have done to the prototype Altay they took the turret from.

How after that debacle suddenly Roketsan and Aselsan got active in it, who do you think asked them? SSB.

The only progress on Altay comes from Aselsan who works on the Turret. BMC is literally the kid standing around doing nothing but somehow gets the credit for the project by the Teacher.

How BMC has been pulled from various projects and collaboration since last year now? All without noise.

The signs were all there. Some of us have been saying this for years now.

2023 is just around the corner, there is no more time, no more money and no more projects for them to be handed to save them.

8x8/6x6 trials will take at least 2 years. 1 year if they fast track it but I have a feeling the TSK will delay the results as much as possible for their own sake until the next elections.

Karma, ah Karma.
 
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