TR Altay & Turkish Main Battle Tank Programs

Yasar

Experienced member
Lead Moderator
Professional
Messages
2,012
Reactions
11 8,087
Nation of residence
United Kingdom
Nation of origin
Turkey
Great technology but Still there is a 1.5 liter 130hp engine! So in order to generate a MBT you would need a minumum 10 liter gasoline engine.
Not really if you check the 1300HP Firtina-e engine, it is a 2.8 litre Diesel engine they are using. For the Altay power needs of 1700-1800HP, it can’t be more than 4-5 litre max. Remember this is not a Diesel power per se. It is diesel Electric power.

 

UkroTurk

Well-known member
Land Warfare Specialist
Professional
Messages
364
Reactions
618
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
Not really
Okay not 10liter but you would need following engines with 1500horse power




Edit: wait fırtına is hybrid not fully electric. Fırtına must have big batteries.


We are speaking about fully electric driven car but with a generator?
İ am puzzled anyway:p
 

Attachments

  • 1655852532830.png
    1655852532830.png
    238.6 KB · Views: 23
Last edited:

Yasar

Experienced member
Lead Moderator
Professional
Messages
2,012
Reactions
11 8,087
Nation of residence
United Kingdom
Nation of origin
Turkey
Okay not 10liter but you would need following engines with 1500horse power




Edit: wait fırtına is hybrid not fully electric. Fırtına must have big batteries.


We are speaking about fully electric driven car but with a generator?

View attachment 45163
Now you are getting there.
You have a Diesel engine that is actually an electric generator. It develops electric current to drive the electric motors directly. But at the same time it also charges the batteries when needed. So both battery power and generator power can be used at the same time.
Because the engines are at the drive wheel spindles, they transfer drive to wheels directly. Hence no transmission.
 
Last edited:

UkroTurk

Well-known member
Land Warfare Specialist
Professional
Messages
364
Reactions
618
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
Now you are getting it.
You have a Diesel engine that is actually an electric generator. It develops electric current to drive the electric motors directly. But at the same time it also charges the batteries when needed. So both battery power and generator power can be used at the same time.
But you need powerful batteries to compansate less horsepower. Am i wrong? İt wouldnt cause Additional battery weight ? And it would limit the range.

Edit: if you want constantly generate an electric engine of 50 ton MBT without battery (or micro battery) , you will need min 1500hp Diesel/gasoline engine. If you use less powerful engine as generator, you will have to wait to charge.

There must be optimum battery endurance/ generator's HP ratio...
 
Last edited:

Yasar

Experienced member
Lead Moderator
Professional
Messages
2,012
Reactions
11 8,087
Nation of residence
United Kingdom
Nation of origin
Turkey
But you need powerful batteries to compansate less horsepower. Am i wrong? İt wouldnt cause Additional battery weight ? And it would limit the range.
As @merzifonlu stated, these are “series-hybrid” electro diesel engines. They are not your run of the mill Diesel engines that power tractors or trucks. And there is fine balance between diesel power needed and the battery power needed.
For the Firtina howitzer, you wouldn’t need the diesel generation power to be too much. Because the howitzer’s movements will be quite different to a MBT‘s movements, it’s power needs (sudden power needs and continuous power needs) , the electro-diesel power to battery power ratios, will be different too.
So you may need a good deal of batteries for a MBT.. But Firtina howitzer weighs 56 tons. And with 1300HP electric power that weight is transported. So you increase the battery quantity and weight accordingly for the 70 ton MBT. But remember that you will have 1/6th of the fuel you would have in a diesel engined tank. And your generator will weigh a third of the weight of the Diesel engine. So you have already saved a lot of weight, which you could expend as batteries.
 
Last edited:

Yasar

Experienced member
Lead Moderator
Professional
Messages
2,012
Reactions
11 8,087
Nation of residence
United Kingdom
Nation of origin
Turkey
But you need powerful batteries to compansate less horsepower. Am i wrong? İt wouldnt cause Additional battery weight ? And it would limit the range.

Edit: if you want constantly generate an electric engine of 50 ton MBT without battery (or micro battery) , you will need min 1500hp Diesel/gasoline engine. If you use less powerful engine as generator, you will have to wait to charge.

There must be optimum battery endurance/ generator's HP ratio...
Wrong I am afraid. You only need 1500HP power when you are climbing out of a ditch from stand still or climbing a very steep hill at full throttle. Under normal driving conditions you don’t need full power.
Your turbo powered street car may have a 300hp engine. But to achieve that power you need to bring the revolution of the engine to 5-6000revs/min. You only do that when you are speeding from stand still. Or you want to overtake in a hurry and go down in gears at full throttle. But normally you drive at 1200-1500revs/min with less than quarter of available power.
 
Last edited:

Yasar

Experienced member
Lead Moderator
Professional
Messages
2,012
Reactions
11 8,087
Nation of residence
United Kingdom
Nation of origin
Turkey
I'd like to know which engine Fırtınas use as generator? İndigenous one made in Türkiye?


What is your opinion, there is an alternative of generator ? Should we expect from Tümosan?
Well, I know that for the HSL-700 hybrid locomotive they used an American Cummins K15 generator.
MKE currently in production/modernisation for 50 M113 APCs . We will find out soon what generator they are using. The modernisation of these M113’s will be hybrid pluggable/chargeable version.
There are close to two dozen diesel electric generator factories in Turkey. But which ones could supply the right one is another question.

 
Last edited:

Cypro

Contributor
Messages
529
Reactions
1 1,421
Nation of residence
Northern Cyprus
Nation of origin
Northern Cyprus
The good side of this technology you can use multiple small engines to charge batteries, 1500 hp single diesel engine is a big problem for Turkiye but not the smaller ones. My only concern is additional battery weight and range.
 

Ryder

Veteran Member
Messages
6,613
Reactions
11,460
Nation of residence
Australia
Nation of origin
Turkey
Hybrid right now is reliable thanks to technology and endurance racing.

Why im mentioning endurance racing because car manufacturers try to showcase their reliability. They want their cars to last for hours without any problems while also conserving fuel and tyres.

Lets not forget endurance is also a big thing in the military you want your machines to run perfectly without much troubles especially for hours.
 

Yasar

Experienced member
Lead Moderator
Professional
Messages
2,012
Reactions
11 8,087
Nation of residence
United Kingdom
Nation of origin
Turkey
My only concern is additional battery weight and range.
For that concern, there is the live answer in front of you: E-Firtina ;
56 ton howitzer ferried along by 1300HP developed by a hybrid system that achieves higher speeds and longer ranges. It also saves a lot of weight to make it easier to position more batteries.

1655913502897.png
 

UkroTurk

Well-known member
Land Warfare Specialist
Professional
Messages
364
Reactions
618
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
İ haven't met such an informative entries for a long time , thank you all.
Altay seems to get its engine soon.

Turkish defence industry knows its sh..t
 

Stuka

Contributor
Think Tank Analyst
Messages
657
Reactions
3 4,140
Nation of residence
United Kingdom
Nation of origin
Turkey
I Think most people have missed this Article from 22.06.2022


Muhsin Dere, Chairman of the Board of Directors of the Military Factory Operation Joint Stock Company (ASFAT AŞ) and Deputy Minister of National Defense:

Explaining that the search for the power group of the Altay tank continues, Dere said:

"BMC Power has started to work on domestic engine and transmission production, it continues, it has not been concluded yet. Apart from that, our Defense Industry Presidency is trying to buy power groups, engines and transmissions from Korea. We also have studies for the Storm howitzer and tank from the USA. But We do not have an engine and transmission at the moment. Therefore, this is the answer to the question "Why is there no tank?"

"By the way, we built and tested the second generation Altay tank in Arifiye with the spare power groups purchased from the Germans."

Now the question is what he means by 2nd Gen ALTAY.
It Could be the ALTAY T2 which would be massive news but rather uneventful announcement

This is what I mean by ALTAY T2

1655940376774.png
 

Radonsider

Active member
Messages
26
Reactions
31
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Bosnia & Herzegovina
I Think most people have missed this Article from 22.06.2022


Muhsin Dere, Chairman of the Board of Directors of the Military Factory Operation Joint Stock Company (ASFAT AŞ) and Deputy Minister of National Defense:

Explaining that the search for the power group of the Altay tank continues, Dere said:

"BMC Power has started to work on domestic engine and transmission production, it continues, it has not been concluded yet. Apart from that, our Defense Industry Presidency is trying to buy power groups, engines and transmissions from Korea. We also have studies for the Storm howitzer and tank from the USA. But We do not have an engine and transmission at the moment. Therefore, this is the answer to the question "Why is there no tank?"

"By the way, we built and tested the second generation Altay tank in Arifiye with the spare power groups purchased from the Germans."

Now the question is what he means by 2nd Gen ALTAY.
It Could be the ALTAY T2 which would be massive news but rather uneventful announcement

This is what I mean by ALTAY T2

View attachment 45213
Also, seems like the tests of Korean powerpacks were successful as he stated that we are trying to get Powerpacks.
 
Last edited:

TheInsider

Experienced member
Messages
2,107
Solutions
1
Reactions
2 6,981
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
Tümosan might provide a version of its 540hp engine.
I Think most people have missed this Article from 22.06.2022


Muhsin Dere, Chairman of the Board of Directors of the Military Factory Operation Joint Stock Company (ASFAT AŞ) and Deputy Minister of National Defense:

Explaining that the search for the power group of the Altay tank continues, Dere said:

"BMC Power has started to work on domestic engine and transmission production, it continues, it has not been concluded yet. Apart from that, our Defense Industry Presidency is trying to buy power groups, engines and transmissions from Korea. We also have studies for the Storm howitzer and tank from the USA. But We do not have an engine and transmission at the moment. Therefore, this is the answer to the question "Why is there no tank?"

"By the way, we built and tested the second generation Altay tank in Arifiye with the spare power groups purchased from the Germans."

Now the question is what he means by 2nd Gen ALTAY.
It Could be the ALTAY T2 which would be massive news but rather uneventful announcement

This is what I mean by ALTAY T2

View attachment 45213
It is probably Altay T2 that is similar in performance to Leopard2A7.
 

UkroTurk

Well-known member
Land Warfare Specialist
Professional
Messages
364
Reactions
618
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
Tümosan might provide a version of its 540hp engine.

It is probably Altay T2 that is similar in performance to Leopard2A7.
550hp Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6 turboshaft weights 120kg , how much would it weight?
For hybrid tanks as generator, turboshaft engines are still the lightest and most compact alternative while turboshafts can burn different types of fuel.
 
Top Bottom