TR UAV/UCAV Programs | Anka - series | Kızılelma | TB - series

Baryshx

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Aksugur was not a tender project to either, or Anka 3.
Is it the same thing? We're not talking about classic drones. If such a need arose after the F35, or an idea emerged, all the companies involved in this business and the SSB would sit down and talk. In Mius, it is called TCG Anadolu, there is a lack of planning and a fait accompli. Classic Turkish business...
 

Baryshx

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If our state or private defence companies were to wait for tenders before they started research and development of new platforms, we wouldn’t be able to get anywhere.
All companies need to know how to take initiative and develop platforms like these.
Hurjet was the same. All produced with Tusas‘s own finances. Now they have a definite order of 4 planes.
No one asked Baykar to produce the Kizilelma. They knew they had to produce it to keep their edge in the marketplace.
Tusas doesn’t have a small enough UCAV like TB2 that has proven itself, upon which a version of a more advanced UCAV with a possibility of naval use can be developed. Neither Anka nor Aksungur can be suitable for the end use Baykar is contemplating for TB3.
Why doesn't Tusaş make an drones like the tb2, because there is no need, it already exists. It can even be done for competition, but it is a matter of budget, needs and priorities. But the TCG Anadolu and the ship-launched iha project is a new project in the world, so I said that the parties should sit down and draw a plan and a framework.
 
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Hasanrize

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We should keep in mind that sadly these projects are not because of state or government, but companies and their leading team.


it is sad to see that most of aviation projects are not state funded
It is good in the sense that those engineers can try to do their best instead of dealing with unrealistic and generally purposeless requirements from the army. Another thing is armies tend to be conservative in many areas, and their leaders are often elderly (elderly mean even more stubborn) commanders. However, young engineers are often quite progressive (not in political means) minded people. We can even see the difference between Force-to-Force, where Ground Forces choose WW2-era tanks over modern ones just because they have heavy in their name, while Navy even considers unmanned submarines. There was a US general who fought against his Force to install drone weapons.

If not for Baykar, who would think of the Kızılelma Concept in the Turkish Army? Or, if not for TUSAŞ, who would think deep-strike stealth UAV concept? We can think of the same for TCG Anadolu; ultimately, it was the idea of some engineers in SSB to turn it into a drone carrier (although that invention came from desperation). If that left conservative ideas of some old general that might float around empty, waiting for the US to approve F-35Bs somewhere in the future.
 

Bogeyman 

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We should keep in mind that sadly these projects are not because of state or government, but companies and their leading team.


it is sad to see that most of aviation projects are not state funded
In fact, it is a very good thing for companies to initiate projects on their own initiative without the government's bid. Because when you sign a contract, TAF can get very involved in what you do and how you do it. While this is sometimes a good thing, no one wants to experience a Anka disaster again. The Anka project started in TAI at the beginning of 2005. And due to Hvkk's constantly putting forward different needs, it only came out of the hangar in 2010. And only in 2013 he was able to sign a serial production contract. After exactly 8 years from the beginning of the project, it was only able to enter the inventory.

On the other hand, the fact that companies are a little more independent from TAF in the projects they develop seems to have increased the pace of progress of the projects. We can now see the scale model of Anka-3 flying in 1.5 years.
 

MADDOG

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In fact, it is a very good thing for companies to initiate projects on their own initiative without the government's bid. Because when you sign a contract, TAF can get very involved in what you do and how you do it. While this is sometimes a good thing, no one wants to experience a Anka disaster again. The Anka project started in TAI at the beginning of 2005. And due to Hvkk's constantly putting forward different needs, it only came out of the hangar in 2010. And only in 2013 he was able to sign a serial production contract. After exactly 8 years from the beginning of the project, it was only able to enter the inventory.

On the other hand, the fact that companies are a little more independent from TAF in the projects they develop seems to have increased the pace of progress of the projects. We can now see the scale model of Anka-3 flying in 1.5 years.
Hürkuş is another example of this.
 

boredaf

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If such a need arose after the F35, or an idea emerged, all the companies involved in this business and the SSB would sit down and talk.
I have no idea what you're trying to say here.

There was a need as we are about to get a ship capable of launching aircraft but no aircraft to launch from it and an idea emerged in the form of taking one of the most successful UAV's in the world, TB-2, and creating a new version that can be used from TCG Anadolu with heavier payload.

What you suggested in your posts would lead to something getting designed from scratch and would take way too long at the end.
 

what

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We should keep in mind that sadly these projects are not because of state or government, but companies and their leading team.


it is sad to see that most of aviation projects are not state funded

I think it's good. They are investing and creating products, without being dependent on government orders or subsidies.
Its the ultimate goal, after all, they should be self-sufficient without subsidies from the government for decades.

If they deem the market (Turkey and export) good, they will develop the product and take the risk.
 

Kedikesenfare

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Hürkuş is another example of this.
Over the last 3 years, I've witnessed many people from very different parts of the political spectrum criticizing the military for its way of handling and communicating it needs with the industry. Both private and state companies are put in difficult positions due to this unpredictable behavior.

We always debate over changes in the industry and governmental procurement agencies to become more efficient and cost-effective.

I think it's high time that we talk about the shortcomings of some military organizations, too, which play a crucial role without turning this into a battleground for competing ideologies.

I'm saying this from a very nonpolitical rather pragmatic point of view because the industry urgently needs the input of the military. It's extremely valuable and they have to work together. There's a natural link between the two sides.

However, I feel like TSK needs to work on its feedback skills and longterm visions. They cause unnecessary and expensive delays. It can't be that you change important requirements literally mid-air setting back the process for years.

The more professional our military becomes the more professional our industry is going to be. As civilians, we can influence und support the military institutions to create a spillover effect which will benefit the entire nation.

We need to do this without politics, in a calm and rational manner.
 

Tonyukuk

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Over the last 3 years, I've witnessed many people from very different parts of the political spectrum criticizing the military for its way of handling and communicating it needs with the industry. Both private and state companies are put in difficult positions due to this unpredictable behavior.

We always debate over changes in the industry and governmental procurement agencies to become more efficient and cost-effective.

I think it's high time that we talk about the shortcomings of some military organizations, too, which play a crucial role without turning this into a battleground for competing ideologies.

I'm saying this from a very nonpolitical rather pragmatic point of view because the industry urgently needs the input of the military. It's extremely valuable and they have to work together. There's a natural link between the two sides.

However, I feel like TSK needs to work on its feedback skills and longterm visions. They cause unnecessary and expensive delays. It can't be that you change important requirements literally mid-air setting back the process for years.

The more professional our military becomes the more professional our industry is going to be. As civilians, we can influence und support the military institutions to create a spillover effect which will benefit the entire nation.

We need to do this without politics, in a calm and rational manner.
The current political climate also impacts this. Not only the political divisions, but also the fact that the military has been somewhat cut off from having influence of their own. Military staff are refraining from being proactive in many ways including giving feedback to the defence industry because they know that it can land them in trouble. Surprisingly there is still a lot of distrust between the military and the government. For instance, the military was not allowed to help residents effected by the forest fires last year. Also Erdoğan hasn't attended a military parade in around 7 years, nor allowed them to parade with combat vehicles.

Back to the topic, I think we will see Anka 3 very soon.
 

Isbara

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We should keep in mind that sadly these projects are not because of state or government, but companies and their leading team.


it is sad to see that most of aviation projects are not state funded
If we can manage and finance all those aviation programs without government support or funding, it is not something to be sad. We should be proud of it. :)
 

Nutuk

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We should keep in mind that sadly these projects are not because of state or government, but companies and their leading team.


it is sad to see that most of aviation projects are not state funded

Strange kind of sad.

Is not the goal to get our defense companies self sustaining? And when such goals are achieved some people find it sad that it is not state funded.

You know how only state funded companies (MKE for most of her existence) functioned
 

Zafer

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It is blissful that large aviation projects can sustain themselves but there are still smaller companies not sufficiently funded.
 

Radonsider

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Strange kind of sad.

Is not the goal to get our defense companies self sustaining? And when such goals are achieved some people find it sad that it is not state funded.

You know how only state funded companies (MKE for most of her existence) functioned
The problem is they can end up in financial problems, (or delays)

We need additional funds, not fully state funded
 

Nutuk

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Oh but that is the duty of SSB. There will always be state funding for the defense industry.

Just like the US defense industry cannot continue to stay big neither can Turkish defense industry be without state funding. But at the same time it is utmost important that these companies become self sustaining
 

what

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The problem is they can end up in financial problems, (or delays)

We need additional funds, not fully state funded

If Aksungur, Hürjet, Anka 3 perform - there wont be any need for any investments.
TAF will buy the products anyway, even if there are no official orders afaik for the last two.

Same story with Baykar and TB3 or Kizilelma.

Let them work under realistic conditions in the market and if they fail they will get money from the government anyway.

In the case of Baykar it's a private company, so some concessions would have to be made like x% of the companies shared in exchange for government funding.

But that's just a very negative way to look at things and far from what we have right now.
 

Combat-Master

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One of the three Chilean Hermes 900s had an accident in Temuco:
1676107802027.png
 

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