TR UAV/UCAV Programs | Anka - series | Kızılelma | TB - series

Philip the Arab

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Someone here(not gonna name names) forgot that when payload is talking about the MIUS they forgot that it factors in the external payload which ruins stealth quite a bit.

Stealth is generally 90% shaping and 10% materials and when you add in the hardpoints, and the missiles on them it increases the RCS.
 
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Manomed The Second

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Someone here(not gonna name names) forgot that when payload is talking about the MIUS they forgot that it factors in the external payload which ruins stealth quite a bit.

Stealth is generally 90% shaping and 10% materials and when you add in the hardpoints, and the missiles on them it increases the RCS.
Munitions on hardpoints makes the jet visible far more
 

Philip the Arab

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Munitions on hardpoints makes the jet visible far more
Yeah as I said, stealth is 90% shaping and when you use hardpoints that ruins the stealth quite a bit.

There were concepts for stealth hardpoint pods though.

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Anmdt

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Head of Defense Industry Prof. Dr. Ismail Demir:
"With the implementation of the invisibility factors that we have acquired in ANKA-3 and Militia Combat Aircraft, it will provide significant advantages in terms of radar cross-sectional area and invisibility.
ANKA-3 will also have the opportunity to carry ammunition inside the fuselage, but mostly outside the fuselage due to the flying wing formation."
I think he meant vice-versa.Logically, i would expect hardpoints to be removable or retractable in some ways in final product.
 

boredaf

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I don't have confirmed exact numbers but everyone I know says it is huge and photos deceive people. There will be more Anka-3 prototypes similar to MMU/TF-X.
So, in theory, the two hardpoints it has inside could carry big enough missiles for it to achieve SEAD/DEAD missions without compromising its stealth. That's kinda what matters to me the most.
 

Sanchez

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So, in theory, the two hardpoints it has inside could carry big enough missiles for it to achieve SEAD/DEAD missions without compromising its stealth. That's kinda what matters to me the most.
One would assume so. Not much point in working on a flying wing if it can't. It has to be.
 

dBSPL

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Maybe I'm wrong, but this type of flying wing drones create a great advantage for the use of bomb types with sophisticated guidance kits on strategic and/or deep targets, rather than for missile types that can already reach long ranges and use surface shapes to navigate at very low altitude.

For example, SDB type munitions, I think, will become the specialty of these types of drones. This will also provide the advantage of simultaneous multiple engagement, of being able to drop more than one munition on the target. Based on rough measurements and the specs released, it appears that the ANKA-3 will be able to carry 8 miniature bombs which have concrete-penetration capabilities over meter. It can drop/fire decoy drones or fuel tanks with pylons before entering risky airspace that can be detected and perform a deep strike in full stealth mode.

edit: For example, in a scenario where 2/4 MALD-like high-speed decoy drones show a wrong tactical picture in the airspace, 2 Anka-3 with carrying 6/12 SDB type munitions coming from the other flight profile can take out an entire air defense battalion in a single sortie, including radars, several TELs and its command and control unit. Or it can render an air base/naval base unusable, including its peripheral radar installations. Waves of long-range sea-skimming cruise missiles, long-range missile-shaped decoys/jammers and penetrating bombers flying in full stealth mode can increase the saturation against adversary force to the point where unbearable point on each air defense layers.
 
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dBSPL

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Can, in that scenario, each SDB aim at a different target simultaneously?

I think the answer to this question will also be related to the target identification systems of the aircraft. In the video below, the F-35 engages 5 different moving targets at the same time with 5 GPS Aided Inertial/Semi-Active Laser guidance type munitions and the targets are hit with GEOT accuracy.

 
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Ecderha

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I think the answer to this question will also be related to the target identification systems of the aircraft. In the video below, the F-35 engages 5 different moving targets at the same time with 5 GPS Aided Inertial/Semi-Active Laser guidance type munitions and the targets are hit with GEOT accuracy.


This is ideal environment and ideal targets. Well it is okayish.

Let repeat it in real environment.
- Clouds
- Targets are not in the same place
- Place is jammed or at least partially -> GPS

Then We can say is it ok or not.
 

Heartbang

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Can, in that scenario, each SDB aim at a different target simultaneously?
Yes, it should be able to.
Maybe I'm wrong, but this type of flying wing drones create a great advantage for the use of bomb types with sophisticated guidance kits on strategic and/or deep targets, rather than for missile types that can already reach long ranges and use surface shapes to navigate at very low altitude.

For example, SDB type munitions, I think, will become the specialty of these types of drones. This will also provide the advantage of simultaneous multiple engagement, of being able to drop more than one munition on the target. Based on rough measurements and the specs released, it appears that the ANKA-3 will be able to carry 8 miniature bombs which have concrete-penetration capabilities over meter. It can drop/fire decoy drones or fuel tanks with pylons before entering risky airspace that can be detected and perform a deep strike in full stealth mode.

edit: For example, in a scenario where 2/4 MALD-like high-speed decoy drones show a wrong tactical picture in the airspace, 2 Anka-3 with carrying 6/12 SDB type munitions coming from the other flight profile can take out an entire air defense battalion in a single sortie, including radars, several TELs and its command and control unit. Or it can render an air base/naval base unusable, including its peripheral radar installations. Waves of long-range sea-skimming cruise missiles, long-range missile-shaped decoys/jammers and penetrating bombers flying in full stealth mode can increase the saturation against adversary force to the point where unbearable point on each air defense layers.
What I really like to see ANKA-3 do is maritime bombing runs.

All the way back in the early 2000's, US air force managed to sink moving ships with regular JDAM kits by tracking maritime targets with the F-15's radar and continuously feeding the tracking data into the guidance hardware as GPS coordinate updates.
More detail here:

ANKA-3, using a TERCOM radar underneath its body (or datalinked tracking data from other assets), can track and deploy regular old JDAM's(or their indigenous counterparts) to at least saturate a ships defence ordinance, achieving a mission kill.
 

Afif

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This is ideal environment and ideal targets. Well it is okayish.

Let repeat it in real environment.
- Clouds
- Targets are not in the same place
- Place is jammed or at least partially -> GPS

Then We can say is it ok or not.

If EOTS having any problem with acquiring targets, APG-81 can see through the clouds and dust. ( +Sensor fusion with EOTS )

So, even if GPS is denied, With INS+Data link course correction GBU-53/B can still hit a moving target. ( It has uncooled IIR, mmW and semi active laser seeker for terminal guidance )

I would assume similar capability for Aselsan’s Tolun.
@TheInsider Does it has data link?

Edit, I found it. Tolun has bidirectional data link according to SavunmaSanayiST.com
 
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dBSPL

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This is ideal environment and ideal targets. Well it is okayish.

Let repeat it in real environment.
- Clouds
- Targets are not in the same place
- Place is jammed or at least partially -> GPS

Then We can say is it ok or not.
This requires the F-35 to be in active combat operations and operator force share records with open sources. As you can see the footage consists of images and data directly from the telemetry systems, and the location of the test is most likely NTTR (Nellis Test and Training Range). In other words, this video from 2018 is a test of for one spesific capability, just one of thousands of controlled test environments that the aircraft entered during its development. What I want to draw attention to here is not the capabilities of the F-35, but the technical feasibility of simultaneous engagement on different targets, including a wide range of guidance kits such as Inertial, SAL, IIR, radar homing, etc., and the main factor here, in my opinion, is the technical infrastructure of the main platform, the aircraft, which detects the targets and release the munitions. Its effectiveness in difficult weather conditions and/or under enemy ED is a another dimension.
 

TheInsider

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If EOTS having any problem with acquiring targets, APG-81 can see through the clouds and dust. ( +Sensor fusion with EOTS )

So, even if GPS is denied, With INS+Data link course correction GBU-53/B can still hit a moving target. ( It has uncooled IIR, mmW and semi active laser seeker for terminal guidance )

I would assume similar capability for Aselsan’s Tolun.
@TheInsider Does it has data link?

Edit, I found it. Tolun has bidirectional data link according to SavunmaSanayiST.com

Yes, it has a two-way datalink and man-in-the-loop capability.
 
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