What will the army of Ukraine fight: about "Peregrine" and "Neptune", ciphers "Crab" and "Bastion", the fate of "Falcon-300", "Bogdana" and more - Alexander Myronyuk
Deputy Minister of Defense for Armaments Oleksandr Myronyuk spoke specifically for Defense Express about the main weapons developments that will soon strengthen the Armed Forces
What fate awaits the domestic UAV "Falcon-300", what is the future of OTRK "Sapsan", when the army will receive tanks "Oplot", hidden under the codes "Crab" and "Triumph", whether the army will receive "Bogdana" and what will strengthen the Air Force and the Navy.The answers to these and other questions are in an extensive exclusive interview of Defense Express with Deputy Minister of Defense Oleksandr Myronyuk.
- Starting with the most interesting defense projects for society - "Neptune" and "Alder". Is there an order for these weapons and what is their future fate?
This year we adopted Neptune , despite the fact that we did not have a large financial resource, we found opportunities to sign a contract. And during 2021, the Navy should receive the first division.
Regarding "Alder". There are contracts, they are being fulfilled, some of the missiles are already in the bases and arsenals of the Armed Forces. As for Alder-M, a contract has been signed for the production of prototypes that will be used during state tests. And based on their results, a decision will be made on the adoption of "Alder" . We hope that their result will be positive.
- Another topic that is now being actively discussed is the purchase of Czech ACS "Dana-M2". What are the main advantages of this system and when will they appear in the Armed Forces?
There was a lot of discussion in the society about the purchase of old models of weapons by the Ministry of Defense. As of today [November 27, 2020 - ed.], The Ministry of Defense does not have a contract for the purchase of Dana-M2. We only intend to meet the needs of the Armed Forces with modern 152-mm self-propelled howitzers.
We have submitted changes to the State Defense Order and if they pass all the procedures, it will not be a problem to sign this contract by the end of the year. And in six months to get the first samples that will reach the Ukrainian army.
In general, the Ministry of Defense considers this issue somewhat more broadly than just procurement. First, it is the replacement of old art systems. Secondly - partial production on the territory of Ukraine. And then - the full cycle of production at the capacity of domestic defense companies.
Why did you choose Dana-M2? First, it is not the model of the ACS that was adopted during the Warsaw Pact in 1977. This is a deep modernization , in which more than 80% of the components have been replaced.
This model was made in 2018 and it is more adapted to modern conflicts than Dana-M1 [ed. - an upgraded version of the ACS, which was purchased in 2017 by Azerbaijan].
The first thing to replace is the D-20 trailer guns. Then - ACS 2C3 "Acacia", which today, although can be used for combat operations, but need to be replaced.
Regarding the benefits of Dana-M2 . First, it is the only caliber available in the Armed Forces. We do not need to buy expensive ammunition until we have resolved the issue of 155-mm ammunition production in Ukraine.
Secondly, it is mobility. Wheel speed Dana-M2 up to 100 km / h. In Ukraine, which has a developed road network, we can transfer these systems to any point of our country in 10 hours. If we are talking about trailed artillery, or ACS on a crawler, then this requires tractors and trailers that do not have such a speed.
- We also heard that Dana-M2 will "kill" the domestic development - ACS "Bogdan". They say that tests have been blocked and foreign art systems are being relied on.
In no case will the supply of Dana-M2 stop or hinder the development of the Bogdan project . These are two different systems that the Armed Forces of Ukraine need. They cannot be compared, they complement each other, not replace or exclude.
As with the Dana-M2, there was a lot of gossip about Bogdana being tested and blocked. I must say that the problems with this ACS started in 2018 were successfully overcome in 2020 thanks, first of all, to the Ministry of Defense.
There are no obstacles today. In the near future, "Bogdan" will be tested at the training grounds of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. The ammunition required for the preliminary tests of this sample is already in stock.
- Is there a problem with ammunition in general and how will it be solved?
The problem exists because we do not yet have a domestic closed cycle of ammunition production . But this issue should be considered not only from the point of view of the Ministry of Defense, which does not produce them, but is their "consumer". We are fruitfully cooperating with other state authorities on this issue.
We must take into account that we did not have a 155 mm caliber. And if we switch to this caliber, we must provide for the production of these ammunition in Ukraine. If we can't do that, then we need to create such cooperation between the EU or NATO countries, so that this cooperation allows us to produce these shells in Ukraine from its constituent parts.
- When we talk about artillery, we are talking about the capabilities of the artillery systems themselves, about ammunition for them. But society often forgets about automating the management of these systems. In particular, we have not heard for a long time about such a development as "Obolon-A", which is a "neural network" of artillery, as well as a general system of automation of command and control. Defense Express has repeatedly covered their use during exercises in the Armed Forces of Ukraine. However, so far we have never seen these systems in the troops.
Obolon-A already has a contract and we hope that next year we will receive the first set for its integration into the army. We hope that the manufacturer [ed. - Lviv State Plant "Lorta"] will fulfill its obligations to the Ukrainian army in a timely manner.
There are two ways to automate the management of all troops. This is to use those systems that already exist in the world. The second is to create your own management systems. This path is longer, but less predictable. So far, we have followed this path, trying to create domestic systems. However, you yourself said that you did not see them in the army.
- If you walk through the armored vehicles. In particular, tanks, armored personnel carriers and armored vehicles?
The main battle tank of the Armed Forces is and in the coming years will be the T-64. Currently, the research and development work "Crab" is underway, which involves modernizing the tank so that we can operate it for another 25 years. The first stage has already been completed - the development of design documentation. We hope to have the first prototype of the upgraded T-64 by the end of 2021 or early 2022.
The Armed Forces of Ukraine insist that the "Stronghold" is also needed. The Ministry of Defense supports this decision and is currently conducting research and development work "Bastion". Within which there is an import substitution of this car. We hope to receive a prototype in 2023.
"Kharkiv Design Bureau for Mechanical Engineering named after Morozov" has every opportunity to fulfill its obligations to the Ministry of Defense.
- It seems that now HKBM is more inclined to production than to develop new armored vehicles. As it became known to Defense Express, this company is also responsible for developing a floating version of the "Watch-B" and work on the BTR-4. What was emphasized during the conversation with HCBM?
First, the Ministry of Defense does not talk, but sets tasks for developers and determines the priorities and characteristics with which we would like to see new weapons for the Armed Forces. It's not just a conversation, it's a task statement, risk discussion, permanent dialogue between the contractor and the customer.
As for the BTR-4, it is promising for the Armed Forces. And in my opinion, as well as experts in the Armed Forces, this combat vehicle will develop.
As for Dozor-B, this year it passed state tests and was put into service. In December, we expect the machine to conduct qualification tests for verification before launching the series.
I will note that the tactical and technical task on "Dozor-B" from the Ministry of Defense, in the first variant provided such function as overcoming of water obstacles. However, HCBM failed to accomplish this task. Therefore, we reminded the developers about this and the research and development work "Tournament" is underway.
We understand that there are now a large number of armored vehicle developers in Ukraine. But to make a floating car today will be a bit more difficult for them, because they have no experience. It is possible to determine the task, to spend a year and a half, but during this time the requirements will change.
At the same time, cars from other manufacturers are already successfully operated in the Armed Forces. The same "Kozak-2", there are no complaints about it.
- Signing of a memorandum with the United Kingdom on the development and supply of boats for the Ukrainian Navy . At a certain stage, it became known that the Ministry of Defense had proposed to localize their production in Ukraine. Also what is the situation with the project of production of Turkish corvettes of the Ada class?
Negotiations are underway to agree on the tactical and technical characteristics of these boats, which are intended to strengthen the Navy. The British side is considering all possible options, at the same time we insist on the involvement of Ukrainian specialists in the implementation of this project. Some boats will be manufactured in the UK and others in Ukraine by companies. That on these rocket boats it was possible to install our cruise missiles.
As for cooperation with Turkey, the work continues after the signing of the memorandum. I hope that this direction will develop and it will raise the Ukrainian shipbuilding industry from its knees. Because the Navy Command plans to have four corvettes in the Ukrainian fleet. And if there is a transfer of technologies and their production at Ukrainian shipyards, I think it will be very good.
- Will the Ministry of Defense be able to resolve the issue with the unfinished corvette "Vladimir the Great"?
Yes, we are currently working on this issue. If in nine months we have moved the issues of completion and commissioning of ships, the production of which was blocked during 2018-2019, this difficult issue will also be resolved.
Project 58250 "Vladimir the Great"
That is, during this time we have successfully resolved the issue of the average reconnaissance ship under the project "Lagoon". He is currently undergoing running tests, the crew on board, so after successful state tests, he will enter service.
We also have not completed another MBAK "Gyurza" and landing boat "Centaur". After their completion, the need for boats of this class will be closed and they will only need modernization.
- About air defense. For example, DKKB "Ray" offers a range of anti-aircraft missile systems from short to medium range. There are also some developments in KB "Southern". Is the Ministry of Defense interested in these developments?
It should be understood that the Ministry of Defense has limited resources for purchasing samples and conducting research and development work. If you take the budget for 2020 and 2021, then usually give half of the annual budget for such work in order to get the first sample in 3-5 years, it is not appropriate. Because otherwise we will not close other problems that exist.
At the same time, it is necessary to mention another work of Pivdenne Design Bureau. Namely, about the project of the operational and tactical complex "Peregrine Falcon", which is now being studied very carefully by the Ministry of Defense. It is planned to finance it from 2021, so that in the near future we will receive the necessary weapons for the Armed Forces.
- In addition to air defense systems, aviation is no less expensive. What about the order for the An-178, unmanned systems, for example, the project "Falcon-300", increasing the number of Bayraktar TB2, front-line aircraft?
There is some progress in the project of An-178, the relevant resolution of the Cabinet will be adopted, which will allow signing a contract with SE "Antonov". We hope that in 2023 we will receive three An-178 aircraft in the transport and landing version. And this will be the first order from the Armed Forces in the last 29 years.
In tactical aviation, the technical condition of aircraft, their resource, allows for modernization, repair and operation of some models until 2035. We are talking about Su-25, Su-27 and MiG-29.
Regarding the latter, in 2021 a contract for the modernization of the MiG-29 will be signed with an Israeli company with the wide involvement of a number of domestic companies.
As for unmanned systems, there is currently no dilemma between Sokil-300 and Bayraktar TB2. The Ukrainian development was only recently presented. "Falcon-300" has prospects , but it will not be today or tomorrow and not the next 2-3 years. Understanding how weapons models are created, how they are tested, put into operation, it takes at least three years for this complex. In order to work out the whole set of inspections, including the use of weapons.
And it should be explained separately how a certain development is financed by the state. It is necessary to determine the location of this equipment or weapons in combat. Where it will be used, for what, by what composition, what tasks it can perform. After that, a decision will be made on the feasibility of research and development work.
These are the "rules of the game" that many people have to "play" by. No, it is a system of creation and development of armaments and military equipment. This is what, unfortunately, we tried to break a few years ago.
I believe that every Ukrainian company that has a strong potential, experience, it has the right to participate in cooperation with a foreign company that supplies its products to the Ukrainian army.
- Finally. What do you see as the main thing in your activity as Deputy Minister of Defense for Armaments?
It is necessary to create uniform rules of the game on the part of the Ministry of Defense, which will be agreed by other executive bodies. That they were clear to all participants of a defense-industrial complex. They must be transparent, competitive and free of monopolies.
Because as we have seen, as soon as an enterprise becomes a monopolist, it begins to dictate its rules of the game. Therefore, the Ministry of Defense should always have several options for providing the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
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