India India-France to join hands in fighter and submarine design and manufacturing

Nilgiri

Experienced member
Moderator
Aviation Specialist
Messages
7,758
Reactions
22 15,480
Nation of residence
Canada
Nation of origin
India

India-France to join hands in fighter and submarine design and manufacturing​

India News
Published on Jan 05, 2023 09:18 AM IST

The 36th India-France dialogue will record a forward movement today with French President Emmanuel Macron committed to support Modi’s India for developing advanced military industrial complex.


New Delhi: Visiting diplomatic advisor to French President, Emmanuel Bonne, will call on Prime Minister Narendra Modi today as his strategic dialogue with National Security Advisor Ajit Doval is pitched at making France a key partner in “Make in India” campaign in manufacturing much needed aircraft engine and long range submarine.

The 36th India-France Strategic dialogue will be held this afternoon and lead to other high level exchanges coming March. Diplomatic Advisor Bonne will also meet Defence Minister Rajnath Singh and External Affairs Minister S Jaishankar.

While the Modi government is tight-lipped about the dialogue, India is building self-reliance in weapons and hardware platforms with the help of key allies like France in the face of rising militarization by China as once upon a time key supplier Russia bogged down in Ukraine war.

India is looking not only for 100 per transfer of technology for making aircraft engines to power its indigenous twin engine fighter but also designing and development of next generation high powered military and civilian engines for future fighter and transport platforms. Already Tata group has tied up with Airbus to manufacture C295 tactical transport aircraft in Vadodara in Gujarat. This line is going to be expanded into other civilian and military aircraft manufacturing in a joint venture with France.

With Kalveri (French Scorpene) class submarine line to deliver its final submarine this year, India is looking towards France to continue the manufacturing line at Mumbai dockyards with diesel attack submarines retrofitted with indigenous air independent propulsion (AIP) system for long endurance.

While a forward movement is expected on both aircraft engines and long range submarines this year with France, the two strategic allies will be discussing the Indo-Pacific as France is ready to help India in ocean bed mapping and underwater drones and sensors. Given the PLA belligerence in the Indo-Pacific with its rapidly expanding warship and nuclear submarine force, India along with its allies will have to prepare for all emergencies as Indian Ocean will be the next frontier. The two allies have formed a tri-lateral grouping with UAE to ensure maritime domain awareness and security from east coast of Africa to far Pacific. Space is another key area where India and France have joined hands to share technology to counter the rapid strides taken by China.

Both Doval and Bonne are also going to exchange notes on rising radicalization in the region particularly Af-Pak region after the rise of Taliban as well as terrorism emanating from Pakistan with India as the target. The twin terror attacks in Rajouri this month were conducted by Pakistan based Lashkar-e-Tayebba (LeT) group with innocent minority Hindus as targets. The terror attacks clearly indicated that proscribed groups like Jaish-e-Mohammed and LeT are thriving under the Pakistani deep state, whose objective is to target India particularly Jammu and Kashmir. It was due to support from key allies like France and US that India managed to black-list several Pak based terrorists by the 1267 Sanctions Committee despite China always coming to aid of Islamabad. Not only that, France and US were the two countries that blocked Chinese attempts to designate Indian engineers working in Afghanistan as terrorists at the behest of Pakistan.

During the strategic dialogue, Bonne will be briefed by Doval on the PLA posture along the 3488 km Line of Actual Control (LAC) and the two leaders will also discuss how to bring both Russia and Ukraine on the negotiating table to end a conflict that started last February 2022.
 

Nilgiri

Experienced member
Moderator
Aviation Specialist
Messages
7,758
Reactions
22 15,480
Nation of residence
Canada
Nation of origin
India
The cooperation I will be focusing on especially:

FlspKMUWYAE1IOM
 

Mehmed Ali

Well-known member
Messages
432
Reactions
1 817
Nation of residence
England(UK)
Nation of origin
Bosnia & Herzegovina
It looks that Indian will get another 26 Rafales M. A good job really, for 62 Rafales altogether India is getting a lot of TOT and material and manufacturing skills. In meantime Islamic world are getting maybe 220 Rafales and screwdriver manufacturing ability.
 

Paro

Well-known member
Messages
360
Reactions
524
Nation of residence
India
It looks that Indian will get another 26 Rafales M. A good job really, for 62 Rafales altogether India is getting a lot of TOT and material and manufacturing skills. In meantime Islamic world are getting maybe 220 Rafales and screwdriver manufacturing ability.
IAF will eventually order another 36. They built the infrastructure for it to operate.
 
Last edited:

Nilgiri

Experienced member
Moderator
Aviation Specialist
Messages
7,758
Reactions
22 15,480
Nation of residence
Canada
Nation of origin
India



The French aircraft engine major Safran is all set to announce MRO for commercial engines in India tomorrow with military engines as a next step. The company has also offered to co-develop 110 KN thrust military engines with DRDO for its twin engine fighter project.


French aircraft engine major Safran is all set to announce a maintenance repair and overhaul (MRO) facility for leading edge aviation propulsion (LEAP) commercial aircraft engines in India as part of its offset commitments. The MRO facility, said to be based either in Hyderabad or Bengaluru, will apparently be announced tomorrow when Safran CEO Olivier Andres meets Indian Civil Aviation Minister Jyotiraditya Scindia.

The MRO state-of-the-art facility will be set up through a 100 per cent Indian subsidiary route that will not only service some 330 engines used by Indian commercial carriers but also Safran-GE joint venture engines from other countries in South Asia, West Asia, and Africa. For the facility, SAFRAN is bringing in USD 150 million foreign direct investment with plans of moving into MRO of military engines used in Indian Air Force Rafale and Mirage 2000 fighters in the future to push the “Atmanirbhar Bharat” initiative. The French company is the supplier of M88 engines for IAF’s recently acquired 26 Rafale multi-role fighters and is also the number one helicopter engine supplier to India.

Apart from the MRO facility, the French company has also submitted a proposal to the Indian government to co-develop with DRDO’s Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE) a new state-of-the-art 110 kilo newton thrust engine for India’s futuristic advanced medium combat aircraft twin-engine AMCA fighter project. The cost per engine for 400 engines will work out to 10-12 million euros, which is what we pay for engines today, said a defence expert. That will be for 400 engines, which is what we would need for twin engine AMCAs if we have 6-7 squadrons. Will probably need more, the expert added.

The Safran offer is not subject to International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR), a US regulatory regime to restrict and control the export of defence and military-related technologies to safeguard US national security and further US foreign policy objectives. This means that the proposed Safran-GTRE joint venture will be exporting military engines to third countries without being subjected to restrictive regimes. The French company believes that the new 110 KN engine could be certified by 2035, provided the co-development process gets a green signal this year. The full cost of co-development of the 110 KN engine will be around five to six billion euros.

While the DRDO is also looking at GE-414 engine to power the AMCA project as an alternative, the Safran offer contains performance guarantee, and transfer all required technology for design, development, production and support besides creating a robust industrial aero-engine ecosystem in India.

The GTRE has been trying to develop the Kaveri aero-engine since 1996 and was originally developed to power Tejas LCA fighters. However, the engine was delinked from the Tejas program with the LCA now powered by GE-404 engines.
 

Zapper

Contributor
Messages
1,382
Reactions
249
Nation of residence
United States of America
Nation of origin
India
It looks that Indian will get another 26 Rafales M. A good job really, for 62 Rafales altogether India is getting a lot of TOT and material and manufacturing skills. In meantime Islamic world are getting maybe 220 Rafales and screwdriver manufacturing ability.

IAF will eventually order another 36. They built the infrastructure for it to operate.
IN and Dassault are going around in circles when it comes to Rafale-M. IN wants Dassault to modify the design to integrate foldable wings first before placing an order while Dassault is asking to place the order only after which they plan on modifying the design

As for IAF, they're waiting on who gives them the highest kickbacks based on which the GSQRs can be formulated. Even now I see paid media articles showcasing IAF favoring Mig-35 or F-16 or Gripen when we clearly know they have zero chance

Timing is the most crucial and there's no point waiting for a couple of years more to place an order where we end up receiving the first batch in 2030s...PAF might end up getting the J20 or J31. I'd rather have all those funds transferred to AMCA project
 

Zapper

Contributor
Messages
1,382
Reactions
249
Nation of residence
United States of America
Nation of origin
India



The French aircraft engine major Safran is all set to announce MRO for commercial engines in India tomorrow with military engines as a next step. The company has also offered to co-develop 110 KN thrust military engines with DRDO for its twin engine fighter project.


French aircraft engine major Safran is all set to announce a maintenance repair and overhaul (MRO) facility for leading edge aviation propulsion (LEAP) commercial aircraft engines in India as part of its offset commitments. The MRO facility, said to be based either in Hyderabad or Bengaluru, will apparently be announced tomorrow when Safran CEO Olivier Andres meets Indian Civil Aviation Minister Jyotiraditya Scindia.

The MRO state-of-the-art facility will be set up through a 100 per cent Indian subsidiary route that will not only service some 330 engines used by Indian commercial carriers but also Safran-GE joint venture engines from other countries in South Asia, West Asia, and Africa. For the facility, SAFRAN is bringing in USD 150 million foreign direct investment with plans of moving into MRO of military engines used in Indian Air Force Rafale and Mirage 2000 fighters in the future to push the “Atmanirbhar Bharat” initiative. The French company is the supplier of M88 engines for IAF’s recently acquired 26 Rafale multi-role fighters and is also the number one helicopter engine supplier to India.

Apart from the MRO facility, the French company has also submitted a proposal to the Indian government to co-develop with DRDO’s Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE) a new state-of-the-art 110 kilo newton thrust engine for India’s futuristic advanced medium combat aircraft twin-engine AMCA fighter project. The cost per engine for 400 engines will work out to 10-12 million euros, which is what we pay for engines today, said a defence expert. That will be for 400 engines, which is what we would need for twin engine AMCAs if we have 6-7 squadrons. Will probably need more, the expert added.

The Safran offer is not subject to International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR), a US regulatory regime to restrict and control the export of defence and military-related technologies to safeguard US national security and further US foreign policy objectives. This means that the proposed Safran-GTRE joint venture will be exporting military engines to third countries without being subjected to restrictive regimes. The French company believes that the new 110 KN engine could be certified by 2035, provided the co-development process gets a green signal this year. The full cost of co-development of the 110 KN engine will be around five to six billion euros.

While the DRDO is also looking at GE-414 engine to power the AMCA project as an alternative, the Safran offer contains performance guarantee, and transfer all required technology for design, development, production and support besides creating a robust industrial aero-engine ecosystem in India.

The GTRE has been trying to develop the Kaveri aero-engine since 1996 and was originally developed to power Tejas LCA fighters. However, the engine was delinked from the Tejas program with the LCA now powered by GE-404 engines.
France will covertly try to stall the project or delay as long as possible which is exactly what they did with Kaveri-GTX program. Once we develop an engine, they very well know our dependency on the French or West in general will drastically reduce
 

Zapper

Contributor
Messages
1,382
Reactions
249
Nation of residence
United States of America
Nation of origin
India
Got a source for this?
No credible source I believe but the offset clause for 36 Rafales we bought includes investments in India along with Safran helping DRDO to revive the Kaveri program

Neither happened and all we levied is a fine of <$2mn
 

Nilgiri

Experienced member
Moderator
Aviation Specialist
Messages
7,758
Reactions
22 15,480
Nation of residence
Canada
Nation of origin
India
No credible source I believe but the offset clause for 36 Rafales we bought includes investments in India along with Safran helping DRDO to revive the Kaveri program

Neither happened and all we levied is a fine of <$2mn

The Rafale scale (of 36) simply was not what was planned originally (126) so the pricing didn't work out and both sides walked away from it with the offset transfer fine that you mention (the total amount was still invested in MRO for CFM Leap facility etc).

That's different to any direct sabotage or stalling from inside.


Anyway lets see how it all goes.

===================================================


 
Top Bottom