India Indian Coffee House

[Nilgiri]

Once you mentally come out of the trap and start being able to critically asses the situation at hand its impossible to go back to seeing it how it was. When i was a kid i used to watch the news thinking i was being informed, i watch it now and i know its nearly always pure propaganda that is utilised to manufacture consent or social change. Its highly organised and intentional in what it aims to achieve.

So in a country like england it will always push geopolitical interests or cultural interests that the state wants or intends. In a country like Turkiye thats highly compromised the media may even work to undermine the states geopolitical interests, national sovereignty and social harmony. A good example was the FETO owned Zaman before AK party shut them down.

All that properganda from western media against Turkiey was pushed in that paper with an "islamic face" for example you read articles telling Turks it was time to recognise the genocide accusation. That Kurds deserved autonomy/independence and the PKK is not as bad as we believe, the state is to blame. And i could go on and on.

Now the most disappointing thing is that i have family members that will not come out of it.

Once you leave that paradigm the next thing you realise is that the state and corporations have already prepared your new leaders/informers like Alex Jones/David icke. Then what happens is these clowns start mixing the truth with lunacies and then people start talking about aliens, energies, lizard people. So we go from things like pointing out how central banks work and the big con of it all, then its gets mixed with lizard people. These people then go on to help the system because what they spread is seen as bullshit by the common individual.

The problem is I have found the human species (collectively at large) finds deductive emotionalist approach the most convenient.

Inductive truth based approach is tough and there are few who can pick and remain consistent to it.

Everything else scales to the context of the particular setting.

The powerful course around this the way they do....and ensure the status quo that benefits them is maintained.

 

[Afif]

Not my fault if this is too difficult for you to understand.

It is nothing difficult, i just dont agree with your argument.

As for the 2nd and 3rd world, please.... I dont need white man complex cringe on the "we thus are the relative imperator on truth and objectivity".

Why there is so much 'white man' coming in the conversation? As i said,

I am only reffering to the 3rd world and 2nd world classifications in terms of social and economic development stage. Which is true irrespective of anything and there is no point of questioning it.

Note, there is nothing personal for me about this debate/conversation we are having.
Please, be aware of that.

 

[Nilgiri]

It is nothing difficult, i just dont agree with your argument.

That's fine. Walk away till I hear from jackdaws and others then.

Why there is so much 'white man' coming in the conversation? As i said,

Sheesh I don't know maybe something to do with you bringing up this 1st/2nd/3rd world stuff to begin with?...and the BBC being some hallowed edifice prior to that? while its hands still dripping with blood from the Iraq war and whatever it drips with from Savile?

Was the world as a whole debated and polled in relation to what the definition and convention of "1st, 2nd and 3rd world"?

Or did a specific group in the world (well their patricians to be more specific) make this up and impose it by simple raw realpolitik?

Do you even know where the term originated? and what its original definition was that later changed?

Hint: Sweden was considered 3rd world in the original definition.

Then how it transmuted in application as an imperator cudgel on whatever issue of the day?

Sweden becomes first world etc.

This is all an objective process?

There is zero self serving involved in the specific group regarding all of this?

If there is X amount of hypocrisy floating around in the world, maybe just maybe....one should study the integral of power in the time period relevant to forming it.

 

[Afif]

Or did a specific group in the world (well their patricians to be more specific) make this up and impose it by simple raw realpolitik?

Usually, in my opinion, the REALPOLITIK is the better and safest way to go when assessing the worlds matters in terms of geopolitics.

Do you even know where the term originated?

Is this a loaded question? I will let you to be the judge of that.

Hint: Sweden was considered 3rd world in the original definition.

After i explicitly mentioned, it should be obvious i am using the classification in terms of socioeconomic development stage? which is pretty much the modern definition.
BTW, I am hoping you are not expecting me to come up with the exact definition from dictionary or my sociology book.

Then how it transmuted in application as an imperator cudgel on whatever issue of the day?

God! you really good for my vocabulary learning. Just for you know, I am not mocking.
Anyway, care to explain why this would be relevant with VALIDITY of the definition i am using, even if it is being used as an 'imperator cudgel'?

This is all an objective process?

Good question, but i have got a better one. Is there such thing as verifiable objectivity in social sciences like the way we have in natural/empirical science?

There is zero self serving involved in the specific group regarding all of this?

Again, if there is any self serving involved in this, will it invalidate the classification just on its own?

Power produces knowledge to serve itself. But that does not mean it is invalid just by the process of its discovery.

 

[Jackdaws]

Big lol at free media...

You are either extremely naïve or ignorant.
I'll put it down to the former since you are a buddy.

Here's a simple question, if the BBC are so "free" ...have they done a basic series on the iraq war covering blair, straw et al role in the eventual mass murder/manslaughter scale in any kind of relevant detail?....before the virtue signalling white man burden stuff towards others on same topic?

Or has the approach (ever since the WMD-fraud outgrew even its alloted xxxxl britches) been one of "savile?, who's savile? We dont know savile!" gaslighting used in the same time for the other issue exposed with the BBC at the same time?

Must the line between purer than the driven snow "free" media and "yes sir, right away mr PM sir" pro-war pedophilia-defending pigs be this fine?

Hey @GoatsMilk , @Barry you remember all this crap going down? Or am I hallucinating or going senile?

Is the BBC a clean free neutral organisation with no agenda and a good use of your TV license tax dollars guys?

*Looks up what the BBC has to say about Turkiye on some life and death stuff after BBC role in the iraq war of all things*

Gee....sounds totally non-agenda driven...jackdaws gives it a big thumbs up score, whatever will we do?

They just had a big ole sea change since WW2 ended ....kahblamo! they're awesome!

wait a cotton picken second here...dafuq is going on here with the western media?





woah woah woah........ but jackdaws is telling me something else? Hmmm I wonder I wonder....


and then you bring up watergate of all things lol, thats the FBI media clownshow you want to hold up (with again no actual look into it)?
Of all the things you pick, you pick that one lmao....

.felt was a media guy? whew who knew!...ford and the warren commision? Nothing to see there folks lol. The Media is FREEEEEEEEE.nnngggh lol.

Hecks its missing the woods for the leaves to begin with (forget trees)...
US MSM's role in Vietnam right in those same years....*shudders*

Noam Chomsky looked both ways and picked far more precise instances in manufacturing consent (which you jackdaws obviously have not watched even though its literally tier 1 media-101 stuff) for a reason.

The Media role in Nam's butchery and genocide was just too obvious already by that point to most that had some modicum of honesty in their heart.

but then the media told you not to watch it (at the time, now its celebrated and gentrified as the "media era" has supposedly moved on)....jackdaws et al. must not be led into the path of wrong think.

Each darn day I increasingly see just how correct Orwell was about big brother indoctrination and acceptance....or maybe how intense and omni present aldous huxley's "Soma" really is in the end.

Sad with maybe some humour as well is how I feel about it.

Just curious. Which media outlets highlighted Abu Gharib? Guantanamo Bay? Even the lies about Blair/Bush/Cheney?

 

[Ryder]

Happy Republic Day

 

[Nilgiri]

Just curious. Which media outlets highlighted Abu Gharib? Guantanamo Bay? Even the lies about Blair/Bush/Cheney?

Missing the forest for the leaves again.

I'm not talking about what leaks out (uncontrollably) like My Lai....and then has to be landed smoothly and gentrified by the deep state (using their media butt buddies as required) to make scapegoats out of the lower rank and file and keep the real pushers and movers protected (of why A and B had to be together in the same place in the first place at all in that way).

Or some tiny selective tokenism look into the "lies" of whichever political cabal of the day...so that they could still be given medals and knighthoods later all grins and smiles....instead of anything even remotely approaching a supreme court investigation.

I'm asking why was Dan Rather all gung ho during Tet to begin with as just one example (yet another thing you obviously havent watched)....

....and how that was suddenly gaslighted in short order as the war went badly and the US public got weary of the hypocrisy in larger way.

i.e the way worse excesses of a war and media complicity and culpability in all of that (or are you telling me they can go against the deep state)....that remains unanswered.

It all got repeated yet again with Iraq....and with a way worse cassus belli as well.

So its real simple to me when war criminal inc pokes its nose into the matter like its shit dont smell anymore.

I'd tell them to sod off first thing....fix your own darn house.

I care about my own people who know it first hand to talk on the matter.....and credible outsiders that dont have major blood on their hand....and some basic moral standing to open their mouth on it.

As for the murderer with the knife still in his hands, and blood still dripping from it and the corpses still warm.....braying to another "thou shalt not kill".

Pfffft.

But way too many Indians have white man worship complex it seems. Not one bit of inductive reasoning at all.

Just look at what AK Antony son was saying about it, when he raised even one small issue with deferring to BBC-Straw-Blair et al regarding their purpose given their clear hypocrisy to begin with.

He is an overnight modi toady bhakt or something?

 

[Jackdaws]

Missing the forest for the leaves again.

I'm not talking about what leaks out (uncontrollably) like My Lai....and then has to be landed smoothly and gentrified by the deep state (using their media butt buddies as required) to make scapegoats out of the lower rank and file and keep the real pushers and movers protected (of why A and B had to be together in the same place in the first place at all in that way).

Or some tiny selective tokenism look into the "lies" of whichever political cabal of the day...so that they could still be given medals and knighthoods later all grins and smiles....instead of anything even remotely approaching a supreme court investigation.

I'm asking why was Dan Rather all gung ho during Tet to begin with as just one example (yet another thing you obviously havent watched)....

....and how that was suddenly gaslighted in short order as the war went badly and the US public got weary of the hypocrisy in larger way.

i.e the way worse excesses of a war and media complicity and culpability in all of that (or are you telling me they can go against the deep state)....that remains unanswered.

It all got repeated yet again with Iraq....and with a way worse cassus belli as well.

So its real simple to me when war criminal inc pokes its nose into the matter like its shit dont smell anymore.

I'd tell them to sod off first thing....fix your own darn house.

I care about my own people who know it first hand to talk on the matter.....and credible outsiders that dont have major blood on their hand....and some basic moral standing to open their mouth on it.

As for the murderer with the knife still in his hands, and blood still dripping from it and the corpses still warm.....braying to another "thou shalt not kill".

Pfffft.

But way too many Indians have white man worship complex it seems. Not one bit of inductive reasoning at all.

Just look at what AK Antony son was saying about it, when he raised even one small issue with deferring to BBC-Straw-Blair et al regarding their purpose given their clear hypocrisy to begin with.

He is an overnight modi toady bhakt or something?

It's very simple. There are multiple producers attached to a channel / media house. The guys at the top greenlight projects. They may not greenlight certain projects which would put them at odds with their own administration / Govt. But it's not as if the head of the BBC be like "Let's put the Indians in their place" and goes on some spree to put India in a bad light. And good producers themselves have significant editorial freedom. No one is claiming BBC is some angelic force. But there is no conspiracy either. People may have hated Fahrenheit 9/11 & Bowling for Columbine but did you see it banned? I can see Trump banning it or trying to do so but I also see any American court overturning that ban. That's my two cents.

 

[Nilgiri]

It's very simple. There are multiple producers attached to a channel / media house. The guys at the top greenlight projects. They may not greenlight certain projects which would put them at odds with their own administration / Govt. But it's not as if the head of the BBC be like "Let's put the Indians in their place" and goes on some spree to put India in a bad light. And good producers themselves have significant editorial freedom. No one is claiming BBC is some angelic force. But there is no conspiracy either. People may have hated Fahrenheit 9/11 & Bowling for Columbine but did you see it banned? I can see Trump banning it or trying to do so but I also see any American court overturning that ban. That's my two cents.

More naïve nonsense. You are after all one that fawns over one like Vajpayee, and then conflate and distort and explain away the facts however you do to wish away his sharing of the dais with Modi (right after the riot) and backing down from taking any actual action (if the dereliction was so repugnant to him in the end). I condemn them both equally (and Vajpayee even more so actually given his higher authority at that time and so called image cultivation).

That is the basic difference in our thinking. You need to feel good about someone or something first (and work downwards to shield it from then onwards), I actually check the basic moral scruple from the ground up.

Your extreme deductive logic is essentially fine with a Nazi or Stalinist produced documentary too....or a neo-nazi produced one today (as long as some producer, greenlit hierarchy process can be shown)....no matter what said group have been complicit on internally (Savile equivalent) or far worse outside (holocaust et al or iraq war state sanctioned mass murder).

They simply have less claim to being an "angelic force" in the end....and it is sufficient for one to simply say no one is claiming they are.

Might I suggest an inductive logic that sniffs out hypocrisy (and thus correlates likely agenda) far quicker? Can you reorient your basis entirely? I doubt it, few people do so.

In an ideal world India would have totally allowed this documentary to be aired with the proper disclaimer of what the BBC and its political establishment have been involved in. Or create a documentary in response and let folks make up their mind on it.

But that is not the operating norm of the world to begin with, never was.

Does the west (you sing such praises of and deflect and conflate so much for) ban things from audiences?

Were certain documentaries about the Iraq war , syria war (done by various independent groups that had none of the "institutional" backing well heeled BBC does) banned?

Oh right its just more stuff that you and other gullible "fawn at the west like I fawn over Vajpayee (or insert another here)" Indians don't know one iota about.

Oh right you cherry pick again from the limited sample they let percolate to you lmao.

"Fahrenheit 9/11" and "Bowling from columbine"....

 

[Nilgiri]

 

[Zapper]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1626268864970473472

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1626269194885992454

 

[Zapper]

Vox: YouTube CEO Susan Wojcicki, who has led the world’s largest video site for the last nine years, is stepping down from her role. She’ll be replaced by Neal Mohan, her longtime lieutenant

https://www.vox.com/recode/2023/2/16/23602636/youtube-ceo-susan-wojcicki-leaving-neal-mohan

 

[Zapper]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1623041524266111028

 

[Nilgiri]

This one , Turks will definitely not understand @Afif

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1639487418196979712

 

[Kedikesenfare]

This one , Turks will definitely not understand @Afif

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1639487418196979712

Indeed, I don't get it at all. lol

 

[Angry Turk !!!]

This one , Turks will definitely not understand @Afif

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1639487418196979712

Is it true that India and Pakistan are the "Super Powers" of this Sport?

 

[Nilgiri]

Is it true that India and Pakistan are the "Super Powers" of this Sport?

They are certainly quite good teams (I am using the full backdrop here)....given their large populations, high interest in this sport almost to a fault and the limited number of countries that play cricket at this level etc.

But I wouldn't call them superpowers, that kind of thing waxes and wanes among the countries that play.

Australia for example were the superpower when I grew up watching Cricket much more than I do now (I barely watch any nowadays).

 

[Jackdaws]

Is it true that India and Pakistan are the "Super Powers" of this Sport?

India is the financial powerhouse of the sport - approx 80% of all cricket revenue comes from India giving it an outsized say in the running of the sport. Skill wise - yea, India is a top team but one has to say for a population of under 10 million New Zealand is the best team around given their achievements.

 

[Nilgiri]

He has just started his Indian adventure and will be interesting to follow. @Jackdaws et al.

His travel series through Middle East was also very good.

 

[TR_123456]

He has just started his Indian adventure and will be interesting to follow. @Jackdaws et al.

His travel series through Middle East was also very good.

He can just travel to India without problems at the border(any border between the two countries)????????