India Indian R&D Programs, Defence Industry and Acquisitions

Nilgiri

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The news is fake
No other source confirms it.

I guess he was talking about the 2010/11 tests on the FTB....and jumped the gun for the ones coming up soon.

There is a 2nd bunch of tests upcoming on FTB either this month or next iirc right?
 

Zapper

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Gessler

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India's MKU seems to be the supplier for the new high-cut combat helmets of the Singapore Army, replacing their old PASGT-pattern ones. Same company supplies ACH-pattern helmets for the Indian Army, among other recent customers (3rd pic). It's unclear if Singapore army's Load-Bearing System (LBS) introduced alongside the new helmet is also from the same company.

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Zapper

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India's MKU seems to be the supplier for the new high-cut combat helmets of the Singapore Army, replacing their old PASGT-pattern ones. Same company supplies ACH-pattern helmets for the Indian Army, among other recent customers (3rd pic). It's unclear if Singapore army's Load-Bearing System (LBS) introduced alongside the new helmet is also from the same company.

View attachment 38091

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I wonder what's stopping us from replacing the Patkas where we have several hundred thousands still in usage including Para SF sporting them in several occasions
 

Gessler

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I wonder what's stopping us from replacing the Patkas where we have several hundred thousands still in usage including Para SF sporting them in several occasions

While the Patkas do not offer very good trauma protection, they do stop 7.62x39 Ball better than the ACH can. And that's the primary reason why several operators, on an individual level, prefer to keep using the Patkas.

The Patka's level of ballistic protection can only possibly be afforded by an ACH or ECH standard helmet combined with Applique armor (several Indian companies offer said kit). There was a tender out for such stuff, but no news since.

ACH-SLAP_large.jpg


Some units were seen with Apllique armor on their ACHs, but its unclear if these were unit-level purchases or part of a larger order.
 

Zapper

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While the Patkas do not offer very good trauma protection, they do stop 7.62x39 Ball better than the ACH can. And that's the primary reason why several operators, on an individual level, prefer to keep using the Patkas.

The Patka's level of ballistic protection can only possibly be afforded by an ACH or ECH standard helmet combined with Applique armor (several Indian companies offer said kit). There was a tender out for such stuff, but no news since.

ACH-SLAP_large.jpg


Some units were seen with Apllique armor on their ACHs, but its unclear if these were unit-level purchases or part of a larger order.
It really depends on the range at which the victim is shot at. Very recently, a soldier died on LoC I believe and the AK round punched a hole in his Patka and you must've seen the picture on DFI too. Secondly, the area of coverage which Patka offers is very low and is easy to hit and not miss the target from behind or the sides. The probability of death by taking a bullet at the base of the skull is the same as the area Patka covers. What's worse is skull base injuries have a higher probability of making the person brain dead and not entirely killing them

The pic you posted above with the Applique armor, what is the added weight and cost difference?
 

Paro

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It really depends on the range at which the victim is shot at. Very recently, a soldier died on LoC I believe and the AK round punched a hole in his Patka and you must've seen the picture on DFI too. Secondly, the area of coverage which Patka offers is very low and is easy to hit and not miss the target from behind or the sides. The probability of death by taking a bullet at the base of the skull is the same as the area Patka covers. What's worse is skull base injuries have a higher probability of making the person brain dead and not entirely killing them

The pic you posted above with the Applique armor, what is the added weight and cost difference?
It's also the cold weather. You see Patka is more famous in Kashmir than in other places. you'll notice them wearing balaclavas with a patka. The helmet doesn't provide you the same warmth, Eventually, you start getting migraine if you are not used to cold weather.
 

Zapper

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It's also the cold weather. You see Patka is more famous in Kashmir than in other places. you'll notice them wearing balaclavas with a patka. The helmet doesn't provide you the same warmth, Eventually, you start getting migraine if you are not used to cold weather.
In that regard, I don't think any helmet provides protection against weather and extreme temps due to the open gaps. From a cold weather gear standpoint and since you've also experienced North American winters, an expensive winter jacket alone wouldn't offering much insulation but layering works which is why we see many many Latino working class just wearing multiple hoodies instead of a decent jacket.

Even American, European or Russian forces use a balaclava or some sort of facial covering to protect against weather and concealing identity irrespective of sporting an ACH/ECH or a HCBH and the likes. When it comes to the Patka, it's simply a dud design offering little to no protection due to the exposed area, not to mention the way it makes a soldier look which is outright ridiculous
 

Gessler

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It really depends on the range at which the victim is shot at.

Applies to all helmets (and even BPJs) when talking about rifle calibre rounds.

That said, Patka is made of steel. ACH is made of Kevlar i.e. the stuff Soft Armor Panels (SAPs) on vests are made from. Kevlar invariably cannot stop rifle rounds. The most that ACH is advertised as being able to stop (regardless of range, angle etc.) are pistol calibres such as 9x19 and .45

To stop rifle rounds with any reasonable degree of confidence you need Steel or Ceramic plates which is what the Hard Armor Panels (HAPs) on vests are made from i.e. the front & back plate inserts. So between the two, Patka really is better at 'stopping' rifle-calibre rounds.

And this has implications in the personal & psychological factor too. Which is why I said that the decision to stick with Patkas is made at an individual level.

Very recently, a soldier died on LoC I believe and the AK round punched a hole in his Patka and you must've seen the picture on DFI too. Secondly, the area of coverage which Patka offers is very low and is easy to hit and not miss the target from behind or the sides. The probability of death by taking a bullet at the base of the skull is the same as the area Patka covers. What's worse is skull base injuries have a higher probability of making the person brain dead and not entirely killing them

There is no armor or piece of equipment in the world that can guarantee that your soldier will not die. Let me take the example of BPJs. They have hard armor inserts in front & back that can stop rifle rounds, but what about the sides? Can't rifle rounds penetrate from sides of torso and hit vital organs that way?

The point is, its always a balance between the level of protection on one side & the encumbrance & penalty on troop mobility on the other. With those limitations, the best anyone can do is to try & increase the CHANCES of you surviving.

And this is also why training & equipment choices also matter to such a great degree. Perhaps the highest degree - because the best way to ensure you survive a gunshot is to ensure you don't get shot at all i.e. you kill the enemy before he can kill you.

How fast your reflexes are, what's the level of training you fall to in a crisis, the presence or lack thereof of equipment that can help you acquire & dispatch targets quicker (like optics on weapon) - all these factor in and that's why they're important.

But in a firefight, there will invariably always be f@ck-ups.

The pic you posted above with the Applique armor, what is the added weight and cost difference?

It was a representative example. It depends on the model & level of protection offered by said Applique.

Look them up.
 

Paro

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That said, Patka is made of steel. ACH is made of Kevlar i.e. the stuff Soft Armor Panels (SAPs) on vests are made from. Kevlar invariably cannot stop rifle rounds. The most that ACH is advertised as being able to stop (regardless of range, angle etc.) are pistol calibres such as 9x19 and .45
Doesnt Patka cause neck spondylitis? The steel plates are heavy. I tried a single steel plated body armor and it was uncomfortably heavy.
 

Gessler

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Doesnt Patka cause neck spondylitis? The steel plates are heavy. I tried a single steel plated body armor and it was uncomfortably heavy.

Of course. As does not wearing earpro like Peltor COMTAC cause acute hearing loss to individuals who are witness to gunfire & explosions for extended periods.

But that doesn't seem to effect the procurement decisions. Brass just doesn't care.
 

Zapper

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Launch of MKU's Optronics division at MILPOL-2021

 
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Zapper

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It would lead to faster acquisition , reduced delivery schedule , exports and most importantly gdp growth
We'd have to see what projects this will actually affect. MoD has already released a list of 100+ weapons systems sometime last year which are banned from imports either because we have an indigenous alternative or a project in advanced stages

But we still have some active acquisitions and others in advanced talks. LUHs instead of Ka-226, Nilgiri class frigates instead of Talwar class, SSS Defence's P72 ARs' for AK-203s, DRDO's ATAGS for Israeli Athos, SSS's Saber & Viper snipers for Victrix Scorpio/Barrett/Sako offerings, MWF for Rafales, TEDBF for Rafale-M/F-18, IMRH for Airbus/S-92, LCH, DRDO's MP-ATGM for Israeli Spike, Varunastra Torpedos for Black Sharks, Astra Mk-2/3 as a mainstay for IAF's BVRAAM inventory and several similar platforms can be considered for now
 

Lonewolf

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We'd have to see what projects this will actually affect. MoD has already released a list of 100+ weapons systems sometime last year which are banned from imports either because we have an indigenous alternative or a project in advanced stages

But we still have some active acquisitions and others in advanced talks. LUHs instead of Ka-226, Nilgiri class frigates instead of Talwar class, SSS Defence's P72 ARs' for AK-203s, DRDO's ATAGS for Israeli Athos, SSS's Saber & Viper snipers for Victrix Scorpio/Barrett/Sako offerings, MWF for Rafales, TEDBF for Rafale-M/F-18, IMRH for Airbus/S-92, LCH, DRDO's MP-ATGM for Israeli Spike, Varunastra Torpedos for Black Sharks, Astra Mk-2/3 as a mainstay for IAF's BVRAAM inventory and several similar platforms can be considered for now
Most program are misinterpreted .

Nilgiri are in construction so does talwar , u will see first nilgiri commissioned in 2022-23 .
 

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