India Indian R&D Programs, Defence Industry and Acquisitions

[Nilgiri]

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[Raptor]

DRDO'S LAND BASED AIP SYSTEM DEMONSTRATES 14 DAYS OF CONTINUOUS OPERATION
THURSDAY, JANUARY 28, 2021 BY INDIAN DEFENCE NEWS​

DRDO's Land Based prototype of Air Independent Propulsion System (AIPS) has demonstrated 14 Days of continuous operation as per a media report.


Marking the crucial step towards it's usage. AIP plug in Scorpene submarines would boost operational capabilities.
Air-Independent Propulsion (AIP)

A submarine’s Air-independent Propulsion (AIP) system ensures operations of the conventionally powered submarine to operate without the need for outside air. A Kalvari Class submarine when fitted with an AIP system onboard shall be able to run its electric propulsion motor and electrical network with the conventional batteries bypassed. This benefit reduces the need for the submarine to surface often to take in the air for running diesel engines (for battery charging). The Kalvari class submarines are powered by conventional diesel-electric propulsion systems, and as per the original plans, the last two submarines were to be equipped with an indigenously developed AIP technology. This state of the art Fuel-cell based AIP is to be indigenously designed by DRDO since such technology from abroad is expensive.

Despite the commissioning of the first two submarines, DRDO has been unable to meet the timelines of the AIP development, which is still at a land-based laboratory. The rest of the four P75 submarines are scheduled for commissioning by 2022. Presently, the indigenous AIP system is planned to be a retrofit onboard first submarine, as and when it enters a major Refit.

India’s Kalvari Class Submarines

Under the P75 Project, six Kalvari class (Scorpene) diesel-electric attack submarines (SSKs) construction is in progress at Mazagon Dock Limited (MDL), with technical support in terms of technology transfer (ToT) contracted with French Naval Group (former DCNS). Kalvari class are advance conventional propulsion stealth attack submarines designed for longer ranges while being submerged and have advance design features like very low acoustic, electromagnetic and infrared(IR) signatures. Two of these submarines have since been commissioned by Indian Navy.

A Compromised Silence Underwater

As per the OEM, Naval Group, there are two variants of `Scorpene’, the conventional propulsion system and, another one equipped with AIP. The AIP enabled submarine has a distinctive advantage over conventional propulsion, with these capable of remaining submerged on underwater patrol for three times longer. This is a huge difference when it comes to any underwater sea battle and is a game-changer. The very detection of a submarine which needs to surface even up to snorkelling depth with today’s advanced aerial technology onboard maritime patrol aircraft can be sure given away. Further, the stealth is the primary weapon of any submarine on surveillance or an attack mission.

According to a senior officer who wished to remain anonymous, “An Indian submarine lacking a AIP capability is likely to be at a huge disadvantage over an AIP fitted Chinese or Pakistani submarine. AIP enabled submarines lurking underwater, can make a silent and undetected approach close to a warship or submarine, and launch a torpedo attack with a better probability of kill. This makes protection of capital ships within a Fleet Task Force highly vulnerable simply because of the hostile submarine is already elusive and can approach its torpedo firing range before being detected or engaged by even by the latest P-8I multi-role maritime patrol aircraft.”

Significance of Tracking Other Nations’ Assets

World over, tracking of ships and submarines of non-friendly nations in international waters is a vigorously exercised option for various reasons. Such activities had reached a heightened level during the cold war era. US maritime patrol warships and aircraft regularly dropped sonar buoys to track Soviet submarine. The aim of such manoeuvres usually involves the collection of unique electromagnetic (EM) and acoustic signatures of the ships and submarines so as to update or append the Electronic Warfare (EW) library. And this helps in easy identification of the target in future.

DRDO's Land Based AIP System Demonstrates 14 Days of Continuous Operation

DRDO's Land Based prototype of Air Independent Propulsion System (AIPS) has demonstrated 14 Days of continuous operation as per a media repo...

www.indiandefensenews.in

 

[crixus]

@Nilgiri what you think if TATA acquires the Embraer branch which is on sale ??

 

[Nilgiri]

@Nilgiri what you think if TATA acquires the Embraer branch which is on sale ??

It will be an excellent acquisition if it happens, quoting BK blog:

Tyagi (former chairman HAL) recommends that (1) “the extant opportunity be [expeditiously] seized”, (2) “An interim Expression of Interest” be “communicated to the Government of Brazil to bid time”, and (3) “India actively considers acquiring a 51% stake into Embraer either through a SPV (Special Purpose Vehicle) created by equity participation by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited acting alone or in partnership with the private sector.” Private sector participation by such Indian firms as L&T and/or Mahindra, or Godrej Aerospace makes ample sense in terms of spreading the risk and distributing the benefits, such as transfer of technology and skills, of this acquisition.

Bharat Karnad finds it unlikely though, let us see:

Embraer available, will India grab it? Nah!

[ERJ-145 — one of Embraer Company’s bestselling medium haul passenger aircraft] Twitter has been justifiably agog with the news of Dr RK Tyagi, former Chairman, HAL, writing to minister…

bharatkarnad.com

 

[crixus]

It will be an excellent acquisition if it happens, quoting BK blog:

Tyagi (former chairman HAL) recommends that (1) “the extant opportunity be [expeditiously] seized”, (2) “An interim Expression of Interest” be “communicated to the Government of Brazil to bid time”, and (3) “India actively considers acquiring a 51% stake into Embraer either through a SPV (Special Purpose Vehicle) created by equity participation by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited acting alone or in partnership with the private sector.” Private sector participation by such Indian firms as L&T and/or Mahindra, or Godrej Aerospace makes ample sense in terms of spreading the risk and distributing the benefits, such as transfer of technology and skills, of this acquisition.

Bharat Karnad finds it unlikely though, let us see:

Embraer available, will India grab it? Nah!

[ERJ-145 — one of Embraer Company’s bestselling medium haul passenger aircraft] Twitter has been justifiably agog with the news of Dr RK Tyagi, former Chairman, HAL, writing to minister…

bharatkarnad.com

Believe me, I am sure if Embraer is for sale then India should do everything possible to acquire its, as such acquisitions are of strategic value. If possible a private company's conglomerate should acquire it ( minus HAL)

Bharta Karnard seems sour like Yashwant Sinha

 

[Nilgiri]

Believe me, I am sure if Embraer is for sale then India should do everything possible to acquire its, as such acquisitions are of strategic value. If possible a private company's conglomerate should acquire it ( minus HAL)

Bharta Karnard seems sour like Yashwant Sinha

Well his point is same as ours, it makes a whole lot of obvious sense (however the initial investment vehicle is hypothetically designed and then disseminated/refined later with time).

But his other point (of sourness) is he doesnt have much hope in the modi-team delegated for it...and I share some of that sentiment given what really should have been acquired (or helped along) by now already in 6 years of this admin if it were serious about it (w.r.t obvious sense)....given India's 2.2 trillion market cap (now approaching 3 trillion market cap)

i.e Not everyone (or even close to that level) is Gadkari-caliber or a large enough fraction of it. The results-drive needed rather than occupy-space and waffle-time that is hallmark of our bureaucracy (even the seemingly more pleasant ones).

So let us see.

 

[crixus]

Well his point is same as ours, it makes a whole lot of obvious sense (however the initial investment vehicle is hypothetically designed and then disseminated/refined later with time).

But his other point (of sourness) is he doesnt have much hope in the modi-team delegated for it...and I share some of that sentiment given what really should have been acquired (or helped along) by now already in 6 years of this admin if it were serious about it (w.r.t obvious sense)....given India's 2.2 trillion market cap (now approaching 3 trillion market cap)

i.e Not everyone (or even close to that level) is Gadkari-caliber or a large enough fraction of it. The results-drive needed rather than occupy-space and waffle-time that is hallmark of our bureaucracy (even the seemingly more pleasant ones).

So let us see.

I read the whole article , I think only way to cut this red tspe is an Indian Private company (like land rover and jaguar deal) initiate the acquisitation with behind the scene backing of govt ....and this pendemic eill make it bit difficult for China to do the acqisitions like before , which will give some benefit to Indian company

 

[Nilgiri]

I read the whole article , I think only way to cut this red tspe is an Indian Private company (like land rover and jaguar deal) initiate the acquisitation with behind the scene backing of govt ....and this pendemic eill make it bit difficult for China to do the acqisitions like before , which will give some benefit to Indian company

It depends, Embraer has huge history with Brazil govt (it was originally a SOE)...so Brazil govt may feel more secure with Indian govt involvement (and thus HAL, since HAL is assured govt. entity etc).

It is not simple matter of commercial M&A or stake etc.

It will be made clear in negotiations what Brazil would like to see happen...and India should be receptive.

If it means HAL combined with private consortium, its fine. Over time as trust and confidence is built....then the ownership with proper further negotiations can be managed with less HAL , more private etc.

But honestly, India needs to have an aggressive go-getter team in govt for this stuff to begin with. Let us see.

 

[Nilgiri]

R&D Activity Increases When There Is A Business Model To Create New Products: Baba Kalyani | Delhi Defence Review

delhidefencereview.com

The Kalyani Group has been steadily raising its profile in India’s military-industrial landscape over the years. Under the leadership of Baba Kalyani, its Founder and Chairman, the Kalyani Group has graduated from being a key supplier of components and sub-systems to one that is now offering entire platforms. Delhi Defence Review’s (DDR’s) Senior Editor Sriram Thiagarajan and Head, Special Projects Chandrashekhar Bhattacharyya caught up with Baba Kalyani on the sidelines of Aero India 2021 to talk about the group’s defence sector activities and more

(More at link)

 

[kaykay]

A day before INS Karanj attack submarine is inducted into Indian Navy, the Defence Research and Development Organization (DRDO) conducted the final development test of Air Independent Propulsion (AIP) in Mumbai on Monday night, a major step that will make Indian submarines more lethal. AIP allows a submarine to be submerged for longer periods under water and makes the sub-surface platform more deadly by making it quieter than a nuclear submarine.


The Indian Navy now plans to retrofit all its Kalvari class non-nuclear attack with AIP during their first upgrade, expected around 2023. The 1615 tonne Kalvari class submarine is being built by Mazagon Dockyards Limited in collaboration with French Naval Group and is based on Scorpene design. INS Karanj, third of the class, is expected to be commissioned tomorrow.

The development of AIP technology is a major boost for the Atma Nirbhar Bharat campaign since only the US, France, China, UK and Russia have this key technology. The DRDO’s AIP technology is based on a Phosphoric Acid Fuel Cell and the last two Kalvari class submarines will be powered by it. The AIP design was tested on land in Mumbai on Monday night, the last of a series of tests.

The AIP or marine propulsion technology allows non-nuclear submarines to operate without access to atmospheric oxygen (through snorkel or surfacing) and augments the diesel-electric propulsion system of attack submarines. This means that the AIP fitted submarine does not have to surface for charging its batteries and remains underwater for long periods. The AIP is retrofitted into existing submarine hulls by adding an additional hull section. The AIP equipped submarines are identified as SSP while classic diesel attack submarines carry the SSK classification.

While the nuclear submarine generates noise due to the ship’s reactor constantly pumping coolant to maintain temperatures of the engine, the AIP-equipped submarine maintains a lethal silence. The new technology will add to lethality of Indian submarines, which also take advantage of internal refraction in equatorial waters due to differences in temperatures on the surface and within the ocean.

 

[kaykay]

DRDO develops AIP technology, Indian subs to be more silent and lethal

A boost for Atma Nirbhar Bharat campaign, AIP-fitted submarines remain sub-surface for a longer period and are quieter than nuclear-powered submarines.

www.hindustantimes.com

 

[kaykay]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1369196350101843969

 

[kaykay]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1369189616968822793

 

[Nilgiri]

Defence aerospace may not fully fulfil government’s Atmanirbhar Bharat initiative in the near future

Irony, the contrast between expectation and reality, aptly describes the situation of our largely inefficient Public Sector Undertakings (PSUs)

forceindia.net

Far from Reality​

Defence aerospace may not fully fulfil government’s Atmanirbhar Bharat initiative in the near future​

Gp Capt. AK Sachdev (retd)

Irony, the contrast between expectation and reality, aptly describes the situation of our largely inefficient Public Sector Undertakings (PSUs). They were conceived as instruments to reduce dependence on foreign products, but over the years they grew into behemoths that did little to make India self reliant. With government patronage and fond neglect, their internal inefficiencies grew while the step-motherly treatment to private enterprise stunted growth in that sphere. Narendra Modi’s coming to power changed the thinking with his launching ‘Make in India’ as a national slogan in September 2014 and putting all his weight behind it.

Defence and aerospace are salient components of that programme; indeed, Modi pushed ‘Make in India’ by making it the theme of the 2015 Aero India Show and even inaugurating the show personally. Nonetheless, ‘Make in India’, while becoming increasingly audible in and out of context, does not have much to show in terms of actual statistics and achievements. A new slogan, ‘Atmanirbhar Bharat Abhiyan’, was invented in May 2020 in the context of a Covid-19 related economic package; it relied on bringing economic stimulus to a stifled nation. Six years after Modi used ‘Make in India’ at Aero India Show 2015, he used ‘Atmanirbhar’ as the theme for the Show’s 2021 edition.

Just before the Show took off, Modi tweeted, “India offers unlimited potential in defence and aerospace. Aero India is a wonderful platform for collaborations in these areas. The government of India has brought futuristic reforms in these sectors, which will add impetus to our quest to become ‘Atmanirbhar’.” The defence minister, Rajnath Singh, in another tweet, labelled the Show as a ‘Runway to a Billion Opportunities’; this phrase was emblazoned on the Show brochures as well. Indeed, ‘Atmanirbhar’ was the underlying theme for this edition of the Show with an Atmanirbhar Formation Flight, all aircraft made in India (under license production or else) on static and aerial displays, extensive floor space in the exhibition halls occupied by Indian entities bellowing the ‘Atmanirbhar’ refrain, almost every foreign participant in the Show tripping over the other to display his stout allegiance to ‘Atmanirbhar’, and even the logo of the Show being inspired by Tejas, the indigenous Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) produced in India. This article tries to contextualise ‘Atmanirbhar’ in defence aerospace through the Aero India Show prism.

(More at link)

 

[Raptor]

India​

India is also pursuing both hypersonic and directed-energy weapons. The second edition of India’s “Technology Perspective and Capability Roadmap,” released in 2018 by the Ministry of Defence, previewed more than 200 pieces of equipment envisaged for induction in the military in the late 2020s. Among the list of projects that industry was encouraged to pursue was a “Tactical High Energy Laser System” for the Army and Air Force.
The ministry foresaw a high mobility vehicle-based laser weapon system able to “cause physical damage/destruction to [electronic warfare] systems, communication systems and non communication systems/radars and their antennas.” Eventually, the weapon should reach a minimum range of 20 kilometers, have a target-locking capability, and be able to serve in an anti-satellite role from land- and air-based platforms.


An official review of the MoD’s affairs from 2020 cited an anti-drone system made by the government’s Defence Research and Development Organisation. The Jan. 1, 2021, news release said the system was deployed for Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s security as he addressed the nation for its 74th Independence Day.
“It can bring down micro drones through either jamming of command and control links or by damaging the drones through laser-based Directed Energy Weapon,” according to the release.
The DRDO is currently requesting $100 million from the MoD for the 2021-2022 budget to produce a high-power laser weapon.
The classified project, dubbed DURGA II (Directionally Unrestricted Ray-Gun Array), will see the Indian Army receive the 100-kilowatt, lightweight directed-energy system, a service official told Defense News.
A senior DRDO scientist said on condition of anonymity that the DURGA II program is currently in the concept stage. He added that the organization is developing and improving various laser-generation techniques using solid state, fiber and chemical lasers for defensive and offensive use.

The scientist also said DURGA II is to be integrated with land-, sea- and air-based platforms.
Another DRDO scientist said 50 defense scientists have been charged with developing new directed-energy weapons. The organization also aims to start work on non-nuclear electromagnetic pulse technology, he added.
DRDO laboratories engaged in the development of directed-energy technology include the Laser Science and Technology Centre, the Defence Electronics Research Laboratory, the Defence Research and Development Laboratory, and the Centre for High Energy Systems and Sciences.
The Laser Science and Technology Centre is the lead laboratory in this effort, and it is currently engaged in the development of multiple laser technologies using chemical oxygen iodine lasers and high-power fiber lasers. The center has so far made a 25-kilowatt laser that can target a ballistic missile during its terminal phase at a maximum distance of 5 kilometers.
In addition, the DRDO established a firing range at its Terminal Ballistics Research Laboratory at Ramgarh in Haryana state, near New Delhi.
Meanwhile, the country’s focus on hypersonic technology has seen the creation of a wind tunnel for testing in Hyderabad and its first successful test of a fully indigenous hypersonic technology demonstrator vehicle powered by an air-breathing scramjet engine. The MoD announced the Sept. 7, 2020, flight test that month.
The demo vehicle was indigenously developed by the DRDO, and it has the ability to fly at six times the speed of sound, according to defense scientists in the country.
The MoD said the hypersonic cruise vehicle was launched using a solid rocket motor, which took it to an altitude of 30 kilometers. Then the cruise vehicle separated from the launch vehicle and the air intake opened as planned, the ministry added.
“The successful demonstration proved several critical technologies including aerodynamic configuration for hypersonic manoeuvers, the use of scramjet propulsion for ignition and sustained combustion at hypersonic flow, thermo-structural characterisation of high-temperature materials, separation mechanism at hypersonic velocities, etc.,” DRDO said in a statement.
A top DRDO scientist told Defense News that the vehicle will be used to launch both hypersonic and long-range cruise missiles. “DRDO has spent around $4.5 million on its [HTDV] prototype development cost, and three more tests will be carried out in the next five years to make this platform into a full-fledged hypersonic weapon that is capable of carrying both conventional and nuclear warheads, “he said.
DRDO spent about $30 million on the design and development phases.
India is also developing the hypersonic BrahMos II missile


@adenl @Test7 @Nilgiri @Zapper @Cabatli_53 @Zapper @sarthak
@Indos
Interesting thing is that we already have 25KW laser,never knew that.

Source:-https://www.defensenews.com/global/asia-pacific/2021/03/15/hypersonic-and-directed-energy-weapons-who-has-them-and-whos-winning-the-race-in-the-asia-pacific/

 

[Indos]

Missile is actually better than laser. Laser is more like guns that cannot be stopped and jammed, but it will be difficult to target a fast moving target like fighter plane by using laser.

 

[Paro]

Missile is actually better than laser. Laser is more like guns that cannot be stopped and jammed, but it will be difficult to target a fast moving target like fighter plane by using laser.

Missiles can attack multiple targets at the same time while lasers need lots of energy to operate and the time to attain the desired results is also longer.

Missiles are the future. Lasers are useful in low-intensity conflicts that don't need a bang.

 

[Nilgiri]

Interesting thing is that we already have 25KW laser,never knew that.

Well research here commenced in a big way in 80s and especially in the 90s. It matured in the 2000s.

LRDE for example did extensive waveguide RnD during this time, the cross over from EM to optic is fairly nominal once you establish certain fundamental knowhow in the area with dielectric database etc.

This is reason India is gaining lot of news in recent years in field of LIDAR, and also why LIGO can even be approached in first place (specifically the laser engineering needed to cool interferometer to achieve the needed precision here, that impressed the US lab to collaborate in first place).

i.e there was a sustained research momentum well behind lot of the things maturing now and proliferating in headlines more compared to before.

They are the many growing flowers and leaves at end of old branches from a bigger older tree trunk.

India increasingly need to find the engineering + fiscal resource to apply + deploy certain things at scale....the theory side of things is ahead of it in most cases.

 

[Raptor]

Missile is actually better than laser. Laser is more like guns that cannot be stopped and jammed, but it will be difficult to target a fast moving target like fighter plane by using laser.

Laser is made to target fast moving targets so your logic doesn't apply here

 

[Raptor]

Missiles can attack multiple targets at the same time while lasers need lots of energy to operate and the time to attain the desired results is also longer.

Missiles are the future. Lasers are useful in low-intensity conflicts that don't need a bang.

Well DeW are certainly not lasers every time it could be emp too which can knock out multiple targets.
Lasers would be able to knock out multiple targets too after technology improves