Navy Indian Navy Aircraft Carrier Archive

Nilgiri

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Thumbi , I get your point , they need India more then India needs them thats fact . The only reason I mentioned F-18's are they are best available matured platform and can easily counter anything China can throw in IOR , and they will give enough breather to Indian aviation Industry to develop some good carrier based platform .
Growlers are best in electronic warfare and the armament they carry can easily blunt anything we meet in IOR , F-18's can easily dominate in IOR so only two squadrons can easily give us strategic edge against China .
We cant match China in numbers so quality is only factor which we can have and F-18's can easily increase Chinese cost to counter them

At this number requirement, F-18 superhornet may be viable as stop gap for say 15 years (given what is maturing tech wise and what can be retrofitted onto legacy), but I think it will be overpriced given its designed for 30 year service:


It depends on what the deal/plan we work out is with the supporting crucial infra that can be taken forward past F-18 itself...and how our tier A partners (France, US, UK) fit into all of that.
 

crixus

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At this number requirement, F-18 superhornet may be viable as stop gap for say 15 years (given what is maturing tech wise and what can be retrofitted onto legacy), but I think it will be overpriced given its designed for 30 year service:


It depends on what the deal/plan we work out is with the supporting crucial infra that can be taken forward past F-18 itself...and how our tier A partners (France, US, UK) fit into all of that.
we are spending 3 billion for 30 reaper drones , so its pretty clear that price will be high , but the edge they will provide will be price less when hegemon China and neusance Pakistan are doing everything possible to derail us .
Under the current condition of our aviation industry , we cant develop a product which can challenge the adversary qualitatively in near future
 

Nilgiri

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we are spending 3 billion for 30 reaper drones , so its pretty clear that price will be high , but the edge they will provide will be price less when hegemon China and neusance Pakistan are doing everything possible to derail us .
Under the current condition of our aviation industry , we cant develop a product which can challenge the adversary qualitatively in near future

Thing is the reapers will be used to the very last hour of their service life... not to mention the capacity/edge in certain infra (past the reapers themselves) India will be accelerating on...that are (apparently) included in this bill. Stuff that India can absorb RnD wise for the downstream like was done with phalcons, greenpine, you name it.

It would not be the case with F-18s. You will literally be paying (at least) double for what you use (of any relevance) in the end.

If say you front 10 billion dollars for the whole affair, you literally are not going to use 5 billion dollars of it....or use at very diminished scale (they end up effectively being glorified trainers past say 15 year window and thats if India gets them ASAP...rather than Mig 29 K extended dawdling which is what is likely going to happen and thus timewise excludes F-18 just by that alone).

That is money India cannot afford given how this stuff and how these choices (given asset inertia) compounds.

We simply do not have and will not have (up to 2050) the force provider and force multiplier scale like the USN (and US military at large) has at its disposal.... to keep F-18s as relevant as can be in their setup when confronted by increasing 5th gen+ stuff.

We do not have or will have that vast array of both sharp spearheads and wider number of semi-sharp spears behind it (that make the latter more relevant to keep around).

It is all similar to how USAF keeps B-52 relevant given the raw scale and intensity of all else it has alongside it....and you can tell me how old the B-52 is as a platform.

Every (far fewer) spear of ours has to be as sharp and honed as possible as we do not have the raw scale to apply "Tier 1 spear head" and Tier 2 "follower bulk".

They have to be as cost effective as possible (not just acquiring, but total lifetime capability/cost ratio).

It would have been better if India simply commited to large order of Rafale 10+ years ago....say 200+ and have couple squadrons of those in maritime version. Get whatever the maximum was with France (at that scale) for relationship building and offsets, ToT whatever....what could have been done compared to 36 now and 36 later approach.

If that was done, the path would have been clear for streamlining 5th gen into both AF and Navy alongside and after Rafale....without need for this Mig 29K and TEDBF program at all.

But we now have this hodge podge game being done now....just like was done with Tejas "oh gee its too small" ---> MWF/mk2.....as compared to MWF from get go and then just AMCA commitment.

With the options on finance and requirement etc, and this very non-ideal situation (again by oafish babudom) at hand, TEDBF makes the most sense.

At least we wont be wasting so much money....and we use (expensively developed and delayed) capacity we have developed with Tejas ecosystem.
 

Nilgiri

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Courtesy of defence decode:

1628116009016.png
 

Milspec

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At this number requirement, F-18 superhornet may be viable as stop gap for say 15 years (given what is maturing tech wise and what can be retrofitted onto legacy), but I think it will be overpriced given its designed for 30 year service:


It depends on what the deal/plan we work out is with the supporting crucial infra that can be taken forward past F-18 itself...and how our tier A partners (France, US, UK) fit into all of that.
Instead IN should get in on the F35C's and B's with the commitment for EMALS on INS Vishal, which will serve us for a very long time, will give IN an unprecedented edge in the region.
30C's for INS Vikrant and commit to 30B's more for the 2 LPD's (Hopefully Juan Carlos going into 2030);
 

Nilgiri

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Instead IN should get in on the F35C's and B's with the commitment for EMALS on INS Vishal, which will serve us for a very long time, will give IN an unprecedented edge in the region.
30C's for INS Vikrant and commit to 30B's more for the 2 LPD's (Hopefully Juan Carlos going into 2030);

Bro you surely know what would have had to been done with our babudom a long time ago to have even a 10% chance of something like this materialising.

They are interested first thing in process + lobbying and whatever else it takes to endlessly fill in the hours of cushy job.....rather than (capability-based) results and structured prioritisation.

Look at what a horror show basic small arms and artillery has been this long. Stuff that should have been squared away 30 years ago at least.

You expect miracle to happen on F-35 and huge big ticket stuff like that given significant strategic element with US relationship only started maybe at earliest in the 2000s?

I always try work with the reality of the babu mountain (and all else like that) sitting on our chest at all times.

This is why I pay attention to Israel and France, those proven bridges (to our MII/MIC) that have babu-inertia+pull to sufficient degree and to our overall (unrelated, i.e past the babu) benefit. i.e how they work with G2G, DRDO and defence corporates from the inside out + collab process.

US operates on different paradigm here for our establishment. It wont change any time soon for time-sensitive breakouts like F-35 would need.
 

Gessler

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A closer look at the island:

E8l6ycmVkAEs1T7.jpg

...and the Lift(s):

E8mp7XqVkAAnmvu.jpg

Some more shots via Vishnu Som's Twitter handle:

iac1 90.JPG

iac1 91.JPG

By he way, the embargo on publishing of video content from the media tour conducted during the ship's first 5-day voyage will lift on August 14 - looking forward to some great onboard footage thereafter.
 

Nilgiri

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Lonewolf

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One thing that should be clear to all , no f 35 c , no rafale m , maybe f /a 18 .

Tedbf is more of a integration project than development project .

All avionics will be from amca and mwf program , including mission computer , radar , etc ,almost everything electronic is a modification of a slight .

Then comes the airframe and integration ,that is the thing which will take time of the whole program and if timeline is 2026 for FF , it is good enough (compared to other programs of its class and parallel project ) .

Engine too are one we aee going to use in mwf ,so no problem there .

Next comes the challenge of naval application , which will be major milestone to achieve as even nlca has some over designing issue in landing gear , and airframe .

All these need to be sorted out , also here the wings are foldable which is a new system to be proved .

Overall the major problem to be solved are thrre but too less than naval amca , production can easily start in 2030 and first delivery in 2031-32 .

With super sukhoi to be completed before 2030 , and all tejas mk1 a done before 2029 end too , we will have almost 24 aircraft per annum capacity and if the private sector involvement is increased ,we can go for 30 (really hopeful statement ,maybe not achievable ) , we can finish delivery of all tedbf (60 ) and mwf (170) by 2037 .

Only thing that is required is a orca program too , eith backing of iaf , which can act as long range strike platform with enough payload for operation in Andaman and Nicobar , and more order than current announced by navy ,to push up total orca+tedbf to 150 plus ,so that we can get more production lines .

A capacity of 36 is required , and AMCA order is miniscule for jv ,it should be 160 plus mk 2 , to make it more export attractive and viable
 

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Credits to 3D artist Harshal Pal

Vikrant with TEDBFs, NLCAs, ALHs & IMRHs on deck.

E-NFYr0VEAMC_Bt.jpg
 
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