India Indian General Missile and Guided Munition Archive

crixus

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Guys any chances India will go for this ER version of Barak 8?

Some reports are saying that Barak 8 of Azarbaijan has shot down the Iskander missile of Armenia so I think India should go for it and we already have infra for Barak 8 , it will be a decent addition in AD along with S-400
 

Nilgiri

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Guys any chances India will go for this ER version of Barak 8?

Some reports are saying that Barak 8 of Azarbaijan has shot down the Iskander missile of Armenia so I think India should go for it and we already have infra for Barak 8 , it will be a decent addition in AD along with S-400

Yes Barak-ER is commited platform for project-15B (vizag class) destroyer already...so it would include newest version here.

Backworking into existing deployed Barak platforms (all other relevant warship classes) should not be difficult either... since diameter form is consistent or smaller than existing:


Land based Barak-8 ER, I think will be natural segue for India (LR-SAM land to augment current commitment to MRSAM land) once Barak8-ER land IOC is completed later (they are finalizing navy first).
 

crixus

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Yes Barak-ER is commited platform for project-15B (vizag class) destroyer already...so it would include newest version here.

Backworking into existing deployed Barak platforms (all other relevant warship classes) should not be difficult either... since diameter form is consistent or smaller than existing:


Land based Barak-8 ER, I think will be natural segue for India (LR-SAM land to augment current commitment to MRSAM land) once Barak8-ER land IOC is completed later (they are finalizing navy first).
I was actually referring to land-based Barak 8 ER for the east as we need it in the Himalayas to counter the Chinese agression
 

Philip the Arab

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It has been exported, but to whom?

Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) has finalised development, and is in production of, the Barak ER (Extended Range) variant surface-to-air interceptor, ahead of planned initial deliveries to an undisclosed customer in the third quarter of this year.



@Nilgiri
India has to announce defense procurement right? So not India I assume or could I be wrong?
 

crixus

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It make sense (once IOC completed) to acquire since Barak ecosystem at large will be modular concept and India has committed to it at scale...so it has the supporting infra already engaged and experience building up etc.

Specific strengths/weaknesses relative to system cost etc will be compared with akash-NG, AAD ecosystem etc as to where their best deployment profiles will be....or if say land Barak-ER will be part of BMD program below/augment AAD....past a sole ER SAM role.

It is one of sectors overall that India will have a better situation of relative plenty+optimisation going forward.
You are right if it can counter Iskander kind of missile then, of course, it can be used as a part of AAD and lately DRDO is doing pretty good in air defense.

Akash Mark 1
Akash Mark 2
Akash NG
QRSAM
Astra-based AD system.

Most probably DRDO will keep on increasing the India content in Barak 8 as they did with Brahmos, and will eventually help in improving the existing and future DRDO AD missiles .
 
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Nilgiri

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It has been exported, but to whom?

Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) has finalised development, and is in production of, the Barak ER (Extended Range) variant surface-to-air interceptor, ahead of planned initial deliveries to an undisclosed customer in the third quarter of this year.



@Nilgiri
India has to announce defense procurement right? So not India I assume or could I be wrong?

It is somewhat complicated matter w.r.t India being a partner/customer...and I will spare you the long boring details of it past what I give here.

Basically India did/does the ToT (from israeli IAI/Elta/Rafael source end) through the DRDO-IAI joint venture partnership for Barak 8 and all variants going forward.

Things like the seeker, datalink, dual-pulse motor. TVC (on the actual missile), but also the radar, Fire control system + CnC and related supporting infra that was a big qualitative jump for India's bureaucracy to absorb, optimise (to certain Indian specific needs) and deploy quickly as they originally planned.

This is all then disseminated by DRDO to various private defence engg. capable companies (LT, Tata, Godrej, Kalyani etc)....and there was even a clash over who would be the (state owned) final integrator (BEL or BDL). BDL finally won out in the end I believe....and they are final integrator for MRSAM too.

That is all why technically the missile is called LRSAM (navy) and MRSAM (AF and Army) in Indian service. They are each also a bit different w.r.t barak-8 (in the Israeli sense/role).

The MRSAM program is handled a bit differently as Kalyani made its private partnership in supplier "kit" role directly with Rafael and operationalised it earlier this year:



So I believe IAI simply would word their statements w.r.t customers as someone likely totally new (i.e outside this joint venture thing they did with India way back in 2006 with Indian bureaucracy acting like thick molasses later as usual).

Essentially India is already "assumed"/"implied" as one, in a more "partner" kind of role....the 8-ER will simply subsume itself into Indian service through the LRSAM conduit initially by way of the joint venture setup.

It is unclear for now exactly when India will implement and test fire the first LRSAM "ER" from (I would assume) 1st vizag class destroyer....as this ship will be commissioned sometime this year I believe and will be equipped with the existing LRSAM arsenal initially till India does its own IOC for the new ER version.

How Barak 8 ER evolves its way over time into IAF and IA (i.e MRSAM currently but likely needing a new name at that point) is longer story and remains to be seen (given the various platform intersections/availability/costs) as I posted earlier in thread.

I may have made some errors in places (and would be happy to be corrected), this is off the top of my head.

@Kartal1 @500 @Test7 @anmdt @Cabatli_53 @T-123456 @MisterLike @Joe Shearer @Gautam @Raptor @Zapper et al.
 

Philip the Arab

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IAI’s Barak-ER Performs Successful Ballistic missile Intercept​

@Nilgiri @Philip the Arab
I wonder if it could be GCC member who bought it to counter Houthi ballistic missiles.
 

Zapper

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IAF's Jaguar with DRDO's SAAW Glide Bomb

1619303472011.png
 

Nilgiri

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India has creatively merged Supersonic missile technology with an extremely capable ASW torpedo.

 

Nilgiri

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Interesting analysis

@Zapper @Cabatli_53 @Anmdt @AlphaMike @Joe Shearer @Fuzuli NL @T-123456 @Vergennes @Test7 @Isa Khan @Gautam et al.

The Oct-2020 test was archived here (+/- post range) for reference, many similar salient points are brought up w.r.t this new analysis by Sub-brief:

 

crixus

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Can they put multiple torpedos ( like MIRV) to cover a large area to increase the chances of a hit
 

Nilgiri

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Can they put multiple torpedos ( like MIRV) to cover a large area to increase the chances of a hit

That is technically do-able but likely would make the system too large and cumbersome (and also more detectable during flight) and adversely affect its range envelope (which is already restricted to coastal basis ~ 650km).

If the doctrine here makes sense for it in further testing/exercises, is probably better to shoot 4 separate ones, have them take different trajectories/routes to target if needed and bulk up on the relevant sensor/datalinks/C4I to handle this and their separate final entries/sensor-locking etc as reliable and lethal as possible. i.e essentially it is "MIRV'ed" on shore in a coastal battery or in a ship in VLS later.

MIRV even in BM discipline is relegated to largest strategic missiles for these very reasons....and was also the reason in latter half of cold war, more war-gaming pressure came from further development of tactical-BMs and cruise missiles that afforded more precise use (and thus immediate stand-off threat and all variety of non-MAD doctrines) on military targets.


Could the Brahmos deliver a torpedo like the Otomat with MILAT?

Good question, maybe it is being looked at for feasibility since the payload masses seem to work out at first glance.

The issue might be the slowing down from brahmos (its) supersonic speed profile for suitable entry of torpedo into the water and if this can be done in a way to make the delivery system (supersonic speed) worth it compared to improving other variables in such a concept.

It might have given test data for analysis to make this (new) system already.
 
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