Indonesian Navy, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Laut (TNI-AL)

Mandala

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Good old times the gmfpb 67 is from 2010 or something made for TTHB project of the TN, it should be one of the very first designs for the project showcased by ADIK.
And i think, it could be rather GMFPB design without 67, i know a newer one was made with codad for export last year or so. Fits better i think?

To note: GMFPB 67 reaches 60 knots despite what brochure says as 50 further to note at sea state 4 where most boats may not even operate :).
According to AH tweets the contract is for 2 units FAC 68 meter from Turkey. A meter longer than the GMFPB 67. I assumed it will be a stretched version.

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Mandala

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Anmdt

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According to AH tweets the contract is for 2 units FAC 68 meter from Turkey. A meter longer than the GMFPB 67. I assumed it will be a stretched version.

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No worries mate, i know the difference i used to work in the design office while they were creating that series of FACs for multiple shipyards to bid in the same project:)

So i am just telling, GMFPB is the newer design while the 67 is an older one. The newer one can stretch in size as well and has the same payload.
 

AlphaMike

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I don't think it will be just two, why stop at two if procuring FACs, it is against the doctrine.
what doctrine ??
 

FPXAllen

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With all due respect to @Anmdt and all Turkish members who read this, I wonder why do we still have to acquire fast patrol boats from abroad? Is it about something like a crash project to equip our navy with more ships in the shortest amount of time? Or what?

This is the same question I have when PINDAD "introduced" Caracal assault rifles or that we're still looking to buy 4x4 tactical vehicles from abroad. If it's a matter of the lack of production output capability of our SoEs, so why not expand their production lines or allocating some of them to other, local private companies?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've got this impression that "developing our own defence manufacturing capability" or "reducing dependence from imports" is more of a lip service than a real goal to achieve.
 

Madokafc

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With all due respect to @Anmdt and all Turkish members who read this, I wonder why do we still have to acquire fast patrol boats from abroad? Is it about something like a crash project to equip our navy with more ships in the shortest amount of time? Or what?

This is the same question I have when PINDAD "introduced" Caracal assault rifles or that we're still looking to buy 4x4 tactical vehicles from abroad. If it's a matter of the lack of production output capability of our SoEs, so why not expand their production lines or allocating some of them to other, local private companies?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've got this impression that "developing our own defence manufacturing capability" or "reducing dependence from imports" is more of a lip service than a real goal to achieve.

What exactly the goal you mean, i am here all hear☺️☺️
 

Mandala

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No worries mate, i know the difference i used to work in the design office while they were creating that series of FACs for multiple shipyards to bid in the same project:)

So i am just telling, GMFPB is the newer design while the 67 is an older one. The newer one can stretch in size as well and has the same payload.
For the engine is it fixed to be 5 turbine engines? Or can be based from user requirement if they want diesel engines.
 

Madokafc

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In case you missed it:

So far how those had been achieved? Are they are truly indigenous Made in Indonesia and Not some Shady rebranding practices? And how can you be so sure those purchasing is not in order to acquire new capability or some offset to get new technical know how or leeway urgently needed by our Defense industry?

I am here all hear ☺️
 

Anmdt

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With all due respect to @Anmdt and all Turkish members who read this, I wonder why do we still have to acquire fast patrol boats from abroad? Is it about something like a crash project to equip our navy with more ships in the shortest amount of time? Or what?

This is the same question I have when PINDAD "introduced" Caracal assault rifles or that we're still looking to buy 4x4 tactical vehicles from abroad. If it's a matter of the lack of production output capability of our SoEs, so why not expand their production lines or allocating some of them to other, local private companies?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've got this impression that "developing our own defence manufacturing capability" or "reducing dependence from imports" is more of a lip service than a real goal to achieve.
I was about to ask this to be honest, but rather expected it to come from an Indonesian.
Lundin can handle waterjet part and high speed hull design with their partner, another counterpart can handle the steel hull design and construction. Being a bit father than just a FAC, it also includes a need for CMS and system integration but Len should be able to pull this out for now at least carrying out the integration of foreign equipment.
Maybe it will involves some ToT and know-how transfer so it will make sense.
 

Anmdt

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For the engine is it fixed to be 5 turbine engines? Or can be based from user requirement if they want diesel engines.
The design was made for Turkish Navy's FAC request in 2010~ to meet some extreme requirements.
4 LM500 drive 2 steerable waterjets,
1 LM2500 drives the booster waterjet.
Speeds are up to 60 knots in a certain sea state and 50+ at sea state 4,
Weapons are: 8 AShM, 6 Torpedoes, 21xRAM, 76mm SR, 2x12 (or 25mm)
Sensors: Smart-S, dedicated ESM, RW-LW, and probably IRST with the ongoing development

Removing the booster and replacing LM500 with diesel counterparts are possible but then speed settles down somewhere 40-45* knots.
And the hull is semi-planning that happens beyond 40-45 knots, that is why they have made a smaller GMFB that starts planning in 40-45 knots and reaches 54 knots only with diesel.
 
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wekiweko

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but if you look at the number of hulls in each class of PCFG acquired by Indonesia to date (with the exception of Komar), it is quite common that each class numbered only single digit hulls. So while I agree that ideally for PCFG (heck for all class of ships really) if the capability is more or less the same, it would be better to standardize with one common hull rather than buying multiple different hulls in small numbers, I think that is just the way things work here in Indonesia
 

FPXAllen

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So far how those had been achieved? Are they are truly indigenous Made in Indonesia and Not some Shady rebranding practices? And how can you be so sure those purchasing is not in order to acquire new capability or some offset to get new technical know how or leeway urgently needed by our Defense industry?

I am here all hear ☺️
That's precisely what I've been asking. How come, then, when our local shipyards - both SoE and private ones - can already build KCR-60 and the likes but the procurement for foreign-made ships of similar size and displacement is still ongoing?

You acted like you know all the details behind these procurements, so how about you spill some details that this lowly self may haven't heard before?
 

Madokafc

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That's precisely what I've been asking. How come, then, when our local shipyards - both SoE and private ones - can already build KCR-60 and the likes but the procurement for foreign-made ships of similar size and displacement is still ongoing?

You acted like you know all the details behind these procurements, so how about you spill some details that this lowly self may haven't heard before?

I am already giving hints for many Times here, even you all know that, but so what? For sake of argument i would try to entertain the curious cat. The local KCR 60 even can't beat the performance of previous license build of German design FPB 57 meter class from Lursen, even when the MoD already let the shipbuilder to build the ships in batches with the aim to improve the performance of the class, but alas they still fall short of the performance needed by the Navy. Hey but the MoD only giving meagre budget for the projects? Are you sure? Even the Korean Yoon Youngha class is more less expensive than those KCR 60 with somehow better performance and specification, those Korean indeed had offered their fast boat design for a while though.

Those Turkish Boats being procured is to gain some offset and knowhow the Indhan needed, but what Will they get in the end i don't have much information for a while as even the negotiation is still in process and can be abruptly ended without deal at all.
 

Madokafc

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