Indonesian Navy, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Laut (TNI-AL)

WidjojoNitisastro295

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Madokafc

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Indonesia government need to revamp their surface fleets combatant and filling the ASW assets and other General purpose Frigates or even Destroyer as much as possible, at this point it is better to have a lot of hanggar queen compared to have no assets at all to be mobilized when we are need them the most. Fuck off, there is greedy China in the North and Quad alliances in the South, along with the rising power of Indian Navy. Indonesia should have an aspiration to become the biggest Naval power in the region, sure we need to backing it up with decent industrial capabilities (capability to build our own warships including all of the components needed like engines, missiles, radar, combat system, optical and sensor suit, ECM and etc) and too the same important thing is, we need the readily made assets to defend this very country at the very moment.

And also we need equally strong Air Force and Fleets air arms to defend the skies. All of the military build up need money, political will and masses support. Not all of this is easy task, but God only favor the bold and fortune only met the persistent ones.

James Thomson aptly expressing this in his poem, we rule the waves, so we shall never, never never be slaves (again). Indonesia need a strong Navy !!!
 

BBOn

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Indonesia government need to revamp their surface fleets combatant and filling the ASW assets and other General purpose Frigates or even Destroyer as much as possible, at this point it is better to have a lot of hanggar queen compared to have no assets at all to be mobilized when we are need them the most. Fuck off, there is greedy China in the North and Quad alliances in the South, along with the rising power of Indian Navy. Indonesia should have an aspiration to become the biggest Naval power in the region, sure we need to backing it up with decent industrial capabilities (capability to build our own warships including all of the components needed like engines, missiles, radar, combat system, optical and sensor suit, ECM and etc) and too the same important thing is, we need the readily made assets to defend this very country at the very moment.

And also we need equally strong Air Force and Fleets air arms to defend the skies. All of the military build up need money, political will and masses support. Not all of this is easy task, but God only favor the bold and fortune only met the persistent ones.

James Thomson aptly expressing this in his poem, we rule the waves, so we shall never, never never be slaves (again). Indonesia need a strong Navy !!!
Lets hope a little bit "rough" confrontations by chinese navy. You need fuel to make fire, isnt.
 

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well no biggies actually, in 2021 renstra (Indonesian budget plan) already put 700 million US dollar budget to bought second hand submarine for interim Submarine to achieve our target of 12 Submarine forces (plus to replace the ill fated Nanggala 402), second phase MEF II programme (2014-2019) which already saw contract of three South Korean Submarine then, meanwhile we already push hard to fulfilled third MEF III contract for another three Submarine from other supplier (there is between TKMS and Naval Group as the main contender) in which i hope they can sign the deal before 2021 ended, and for 2024 to 2029 programme i got a glimpse for the Navy to push for another three to six more Submarine with more range, tonnage and lethal capability (land strike capability). Hopefully by 2030, Indonesia can have atleast between nine to 15 more Submarine at various stage of development (contract order, building stage, outfitting)

Out of interest....wonder if we can have a discussion of macro allocation defence wise INA has done in recent times and for forseeable future.

i.e what is the % split between army, AF and navy w.r.t total defence budget in following years:

1990 (or as far back as you want to go)

2000

2010

2020

2030 (projected)

2040 (projected)

etc.. (or general trends for these % splits)

and what do all members think it should be.

IMO, Indonesia should go for 50%+ spending on navy (by total defence budget) as its heavily maritime nation....and should strive for thalasocratic strategic model as its economy and stature grow in coming years.

Any larger conflict is won/lost there at sea for INA and similar for deterrence against the conflict to begin with. The navy also offers the highest flexbility of asset use regarding their power levels (compared to basing restriction of AF and island locking of army).

@Anmdt @AlphaMike @Isa Khan et al.
 

Mandala

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After the FREMMs, Indonesia buys the Type-31

20/09/2021 frigates | GIULIANO DA FRE '

For the head of the class destined for the Royal Navy (HMS VENTURER), the cutting of the first sheet will take place by September. On the 16th of the same month, the Type-31 frigates designed by Babcock based on the design of the Danish IVER HUITFELDT marked the first export success, in the ARROWHEAD-140 version, thanks to the contract signed with Indonesia.

The Asian island giant in fact continues its modernization effort started in the 2000s and already materialized with the purchase of South Korean submarines and amphibious ships, and light frigates / corvettes of the SIGMA family of the Dutch DAMEN, and which on 10 June culminated in the maxi contract with Fincantieri for the procurement of 6 FREMM-ASW frigates, plus 2 MAESTRALE reconditioned as gap-fillers.

The new contract with Babcock includes an agreement for the construction under license by the Indonesian PT-PAL shipyard in Surabaya (which will also be involved in the construction of 2 of the Italian FREMMs) of 2 Type-31 / ARROWHEAD-140, in a modified version and customized for these almost 139 m long ships, with a displacement of 5700 t and a speed of 28 knots.

In the version destined in 5 specimens for the RN, the configuration is that of a medium surveillance frigate, relatively lightly armed although with space and arrangements for further weapon systems.

The Indonesian Navy, which in 2007-2017 has already put into service 9 light frigates / corvettes and which from 2025 will deploy the 6 sophisticated Italian anti-submarine frigates, would now need air defense units: in 2019-2020 it was considered precisely IVER HUITFELDT for this role. More details will emerge with the definition of the final contract, expected by November.

 

Umigami

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After the FREMMs, Indonesia buys the Type-31

20/09/2021 frigates | GIULIANO DA FRE '

The Indonesian Navy, which in 2007-2017 has already put into service 9 light frigates / corvettes and which from 2025 will deploy the 6 sophisticated Italian anti-submarine frigates, would now need air defense units: in 2019-2020 it was considered precisely IVER HUITFELDT for this role. More details will emerge with the definition of the final contract, expected by November.

They don't need to have 32 VLS then?
 

Parry Brima

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So the French did offer nuclear-sub to Australia back in June.

Apart from 10 yrs vs 30 yrs of nuclear fuel, not sure what's the difference in terms of capability between France made vs US/UK made nuclear-powered sub.

"From as far back as June, French officials said they had asked their Australian counterparts multiple times whether they wanted to change the contract from conventional to nuclear-powered submarines, which France also makes, but these questions were met with silence."

 

R4duga

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So the French did offer nuclear-sub to Australia back in June.

Apart from 10 yrs vs 30 yrs of nuclear fuel, not sure what's the difference in terms of capability between France made vs US/UK made nuclear-powered sub.

"From as far back as June, French officials said they had asked their Australian counterparts multiple times whether they wanted to change the contract from conventional to nuclear-powered submarines, which France also makes, but these questions were met with silence."

australian sub procurement also enroached with internal politics fiasco, the case of japanese solution switched into european (french and germany) is an example.
 

Parry Brima

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australian sub procurement also enroached with internal politics fiasco, the case of japanese solution switched into european (french and germany) is an example.

In terms of internal politics, I completely understand the political reason of choosing to build the sub in their own country (Barracuda) vs. abroad (Suryo).

Of all the five major reasons described in the article, it seems that the most important factor is the US politics.

First it's the US who pushed the Japanese solution. They weren't allowing their most advanced weapon to be installed on European made subs. The US then dropped that stance and okay-ing European subs. Now we see it's the US politics again to be the deciding factor for Australia ditching the French and opting for US/UK solution.

Only a sidenote, but quite surprised (IF true) the article saying the Japs only design their subs to have 19 years life span. Very expensive solution.
 

Barjo_2

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Yakin❓Kamu kalau diberi pilihan untuk perjalanan pelesir non-stop dari Sabang sampai Merauke diantaara bulan September - Maret (berhenti hanya untuk angkut logistik saja) dengan pilihan itu kapal plastic atau kapal pinisi tradisional (dari kayu dengan teknik traditional) kamu pilih yang mana❓

Kalau saya sich langsung pilih kapal Pinisi traditional daripada kapal plastic, karna kaitannya dengan keselamatan diri.
Sorry for throwing back so long, being bussy lately

Yes chill bro i know how you feel
Well lets start with cmiiw

In some perspective new stuf and new tech have pro and con

Some off aspect in my "traditional" approach about material that use on shipbuilding, new material sandwich non metalic substance maybe lot cheaper than a steel plate, "but" depend on scale and design of the ship, in small scale is okay to build sheet by sheet of the sandwich plate, but in big scale like you want to build LPD or frigate size, is lot more time comsuming because you need to calibrate and retooling all your machinery (remember time is money), is alot more easy to work on steel you dont need to build one by one sheet by sheet just cut it, so aloy material is not common use to build entire ship but just part of it like suprastucture, mast, bridge or hanggar, hopely someday we will see frigate size visby 😆. And for simplicity like the german do, IF you have a steel factory and lot of steel why you need to build a new enginering plat on your shipyard to made steel or aloy material you need if you can get something on market easily by any suplier. (Save a lot of cost)

And the most important is maintanance.. Like wall on your house... You can't welded the crack on your wall. You need cement, sand and water and special tools, imagine the are batle damage on the ship and the ship is leaking bad.. The only hope is welded the crack under water, if your boat a steel or alumunium is just work, but IF your stuf is I dont know exactly the compound you need go to nearby port, but if the port can't fix it because they dont have the exact compound (may be aspal will do LoL), and again time consuming you can't do it in rust, the mix need time to dry and harden again, you can't do it under the water or maybe in the midle of no where there is no sand and cement available. So you need to take the risk by welded those crack and be ware ... Fire can do a shit on previous one (man power and commonality)

Sorry for nylonong barang lama obrolan nga penting bro.. If the navy like the brand new toys so they should know how to handle it, learn and learn hopely

Dah gitu ja.... Yang rukun ya om mau jualan pasir lagi 😂😂😂😂
 
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NEKO

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Out of interest....wonder if we can have a discussion of macro allocation defence wise INA has done in recent times and for forseeable future.

i.e what is the % split between army, AF and navy w.r.t total defence budget in following years:

1990 (or as far back as you want to go)

2000

2010

2020

2030 (projected)

2040 (projected)

etc.. (or general trends for these % splits)

and what do all members think it should be.

IMO, Indonesia should go for 50%+ spending on navy (by total defence budget) as its heavily maritime nation....and should strive for thalasocratic strategic model as its economy and stature grow in coming years.

Any larger conflict is won/lost there at sea for INA and similar for deterrence against the conflict to begin with. The navy also offers the highest flexbility of asset use regarding their power levels (compared to basing restriction of AF and island locking of army).

@Anmdt @AlphaMike @Isa Khan et al.
As Indonesian member myself I also wanted to know.

November have become my favorite word recently.

but these questions were met with silence.
Because the discussion with US is ongoing and showing a good sign so AU decided to left FR on read and didn't reply.

australian sub procurement also enroached with internal politics fiasco, the case of japanese solution switched into european (french and germany) is an example.
The bonus of US+UK sub deal probably they got some other thing, like security pact, cyber security support etc in which FR can't give. US already sunk Mistral deal witth RU and now submarine deal with AU, ouch.
 

this is crunch

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Only a sidenote, but quite surprised (IF true) the article saying the Japs only design their subs to have 19 years life span. Very expensive solution.
i kind of doubt that, JMSDF Oyashio class (before Soryu class) was first made in 94' and commisioned in 98' are still operating well and routinely maintained

"On February 1, 2018, the Ministry of Defence's Maritime Staff Office revealed that seven of the service's 82-metre (269 ft 0 in) Oyashio-class submarines, which have a surface displacement of 2,800 tonnes – have already completed service-life extension work to date. The seven boats received extensive refits during their second and third maintenance cycles, which have been planned to bring the vessels to "almost the same level of that of the latest model Sōryū-class submarine, while extending their service lives."

 

Mandala

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According to this article PT PAL had started AH140 shipbuilding process since last May.

Indonesia targets the construction of the Arrowhead-140 frigate warship to be completed by 2026

Head of the Public Relations Department of PT PAL Utario Esna Putra said the shipbuilding would take 69 months

Erric Permana |21.09.2021
JAKARTA

Indonesian state-owned shipbuilding company PT PAL targets the construction of two Arrowhead-140 frigates to be completed by 2026.

Indonesia previously purchased a design license for the frigate Arrowhead-140 from the UK.

The purchase agreement was formalized through the signing of a cooperation agreement between PT PAL and British company Babcock witnessed by Defense Minister Prabowo Subianto and British Defense Minister Hon Ben Wallace in London.

Head of the Public Relations Department of PT PAL Utario Esna Putra said the shipbuilding process had started last May and would be completed in 2026 if there was no contract development or additional ship specifications.

"The plan is that the construction of the Frigate Ship will be carried out within 69 months," Utario explained to Anadolu Agency via text message on Tuesday.

Utario added that this ship will carry a main engine with specifications of 4 x 9100 kW.

With this power supply, the ship can accelerate to a maximum speed of up to 28 knots.

Frigate ships will also be equipped with Diesel Generator 4x1360 kW and emergency D/G 1X180 kW.

The frigates will also be equipped with missiles as a form of air defense system, the specifications of which are vertical launcher missile surface to air medium range 3x8 cells, vertical launcher missile to air long range (Vertical launcher Missile Suraface to Air Long range). ) 4x8 cells and vertical launcher missile surface to surface long range 2x8 cells.

He stated that for the fulfillment of weapons, sensors and others will be supplied by other companies that have the capability.

"For now, the provider has yet to be announced," he said.

 

Madokafc

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Out of interest....wonder if we can have a discussion of macro allocation defence wise INA has done in recent times and for forseeable future.

i.e what is the % split between army, AF and navy w.r.t total defence budget in following years:

1990 (or as far back as you want to go)

2000

2010

2020

2030 (projected)

2040 (projected)

etc.. (or general trends for these % splits)

and what do all members think it should be.

IMO, Indonesia should go for 50%+ spending on navy (by total defence budget) as its heavily maritime nation....and should strive for thalasocratic strategic model as its economy and stature grow in coming years.

Any larger conflict is won/lost there at sea for INA and similar for deterrence against the conflict to begin with. The navy also offers the highest flexbility of asset use regarding their power levels (compared to basing restriction of AF and island locking of army).

@Anmdt @AlphaMike @Isa Khan et al.

i thought so, Indonesian Navy and Air Force must get the chunk of acquisition budget and Army can playing as the support expeditionary roles. This Australian Nuclear powered Submarine fiasco should be a wake up call for Indonesian defense and civil think tank analyst and policy maker. There is hardly justification for the Australian to procure nuclear powered submarine except to showing power projection and their growing ambition to build up their air force and Sea domain capability far beyond Australian mainland defense in which overlapped with Indonesian sovereignty area North of them. This something Indonesian should be more wary, as the knife is blind, people is with motive, should we accept something like that without any prejudice? of course not, Indonesian should be wary and keep the wariness into action, like build up her own strength especially Naval and Air domain.

Don't get me wrong, all of us know China is slowly showing their fang and waiting for the moment to enforced their hidden ambition as deep down we all know they still maintained the demeanor of Middle Kingdom and Hantu/ Hanchen concept with regard to their neighboring countries. But Indonesian should still keep their healthy wariness about the growing ambition of our southern Neighbor, as Australia is too a Nation worthy of it.
 

Umigami

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i thought so, Indonesian Navy and Air Force must get the chunk of acquisition budget and Army can playing as the support expeditionary roles. This Australian Nuclear powered Submarine fiasco should be a wake up call for Indonesian defense and civil think tank analyst and policy maker. There is hardly justification for the Australian to procure nuclear powered submarine except to showing power projection and their growing ambition to build up their air force and Sea domain capability far beyond Australian mainland defense in which overlapped with Indonesian sovereignty area North of them. This something Indonesian should be more wary, as the knife is blind, people is with motive, should we accept something like that without any prejudice? of course not, Indonesian should be wary and keep the wariness into action, like build up her own strength especially Naval and Air domain.

Don't get me wrong, all of us know China is slowly showing their fang and waiting for the moment to enforced their hidden ambition as deep down we all know they still maintained the demeanor of Middle Kingdom and Hantu/ Hanchen concept with regard to their neighboring countries. But Indonesian should still keep their healthy wariness about the growing ambition of our southern Neighbor, as Australia is too a Nation worthy of it.
We should make somekind of "protest" to US about this AUKUS too.

"There will be a lot of traffic of nuke submarine through my water after this AUKUS thing you make with Australian, and you just give us bunch of F16 / F15?"

Force them to make a better deal, a little bit of Lightning perhaps?
 

Nilgiri

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i thought so, Indonesian Navy and Air Force must get the chunk of acquisition budget and Army can playing as the support expeditionary roles. This Australian Nuclear powered Submarine fiasco should be a wake up call for Indonesian defense and civil think tank analyst and policy maker. There is hardly justification for the Australian to procure nuclear powered submarine except to showing power projection and their growing ambition to build up their air force and Sea domain capability far beyond Australian mainland defense in which overlapped with Indonesian sovereignty area North of them. This something Indonesian should be more wary, as the knife is blind, people is with motive, should we accept something like that without any prejudice? of course not, Indonesian should be wary and keep the wariness into action, like build up her own strength especially Naval and Air domain.

Don't get me wrong, all of us know China is slowly showing their fang and waiting for the moment to enforced their hidden ambition as deep down we all know they still maintained the demeanor of Middle Kingdom and Hantu/ Hanchen concept with regard to their neighboring countries. But Indonesian should still keep their healthy wariness about the growing ambition of our southern Neighbor, as Australia is too a Nation worthy of it.

Yes I largely agree.

Hence Indonesia needs a large commitment to Navy going forward.

Out of interest what was the breakup in Indonesia military spending for 2019 (or a recent year) among army, AF and Navy?

I think a useful starting point. i.e is split like 40/20/40 or 40/30/30 etc currently.
 
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