Japan, Vietnam sign defense deal as China worries loom

Saithan

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Japan, Vietnam sign defense deal as China worries loom​

BY ASSOCIATED PRESS​

TOKYO DEFENSE
SEP 12, 2021 1:11 PM GMT+3
Vietnamese Defense Minister Phan Van Giang, center left, and Japanese Defense Minister Nobuo Kishi, center right, stand for photo with their officials after signing an agreement in Hanoi, Vietnam, Sept. 12, 2021. (AP Photo)
Vietnamese Defense Minister Phan Van Giang, center left, and Japanese Defense Minister Nobuo Kishi, center right, stand for photo with their officials after signing an agreement in Hanoi, Vietnam, Sept. 12, 2021. (AP Photo)



Japan can now give defense equipment and technology to Vietnam under an agreement signed Saturday, as the two countries step up their military cooperation amid worries about China's growing military influence.

Japan's Defense Minister Nobuo Kishi said the deal elevates their defense partnership “to a new level” and that Japan and Vietnam plan to deepen defense ties through multinational joint exercises and other means. Details about the transfer of specific equipment, including naval vessels, will be worked out in subsequent talks, the ministry said.

Kishi’s meeting with his Vietnamese counterpart, Phan Van Giang, in Hanoi coincided with a two-day visit to the Vietnamese capital by Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi. He wrapped up his visit by saying China plans to donate 3 million doses of its coronavirus vaccine to Vietnam.

The agreement comes two weeks after the U.S. Vice President Kamala Harris travelled to Vietnam to strengthen ties with the Southeast Asian nation. During the tour, Harris urged countries to stand up against “bullying” by China in the South China Sea.

Japan’s Defense Ministry said in a statement that Kishi and Giang agreed on the importance of maintaining freedom of navigation and overflight in the Indo-Pacific region, as well as cooperation in various defense areas including cybersecurity.

Tokyo regularly protests the Chinese coast guard's presence near the Japanese-controlled Senkaku islands, which China also claims and calls Diaoyu. Japanese officials say Chinese vessels routinely violate Japanese territorial waters around the islands, sometimes threatening fishing boats.

During the talks, Kishi expressed Japan's strong opposition to "any unilateral attempts to change the status quo by coercion or any activities that escalate tensions,” referring to China’s increasingly assertive activity in the East and South China Sea, but without identifying any country by name.

Vietnam is the 11th nation with which Japan has signed a defense equipment and technology transfer deal. Tokyo is looking to expand military cooperation beyond its longtime ally the United States, and has signed similar agreements with Britain, Australia, the Philippines and Indonesia.

 

RogerRanger

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Japan has the second best navy in the world, Japan is quickly becoming the major power in East Asia. With a falling demographic and stagnant economy, there is no threat of them invading anyone either. So they can look for allies in the region as well. China on the other hand has not allies, other than North Korea. So its hard for them to breakout of the alliance of east Asian peoples against them. Taking Taiwan doesn't change that either. I think China would win a war against the US, if the US came to help Taiwan, however it doesn't change China's economy or demographics.

As I have said before China for me has the best navy in the world now, with Japan second and US 3rd. So its hard to see how the Chinese would lose that war. The Taiwanese would put up a limited fight. However it changes nothing strategically for China or Japan or the US. Now if China took Korea as the American alliance collapses after the retreat from Taiwan, that would change things strategically. However the Chinese would have to put everything they have into it. Get the North Koreans to push south, invade Taiwan. This level of operation is much much larger and more complex than anything the Chinese have attempted in the past 80 years. If achieved however it would enable China to combine its fleets, have a favourable government in Korea. Then enabling them to threaten Japan directly. If China doesn't care about allies then may as well just push while they can. Similar to Russia in Europe.
 

Yasar

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Japan has the second best navy in the world, Japan is quickly becoming the major power in East Asia. With a falling demographic and stagnant economy, there is no threat of them invading anyone either. So they can look for allies in the region as well. China on the other hand has not allies, other than North Korea. So its hard for them to breakout of the alliance of east Asian peoples against them. Taking Taiwan doesn't change that either. I think China would win a war against the US, if the US came to help Taiwan, however it doesn't change China's economy or demographics.

As I have said before China for me has the best navy in the world now, with Japan second and US 3rd. So its hard to see how the Chinese would lose that war. The Taiwanese would put up a limited fight. However it changes nothing strategically for China or Japan or the US. Now if China took Korea as the American alliance collapses after the retreat from Taiwan, that would change things strategically. However the Chinese would have to put everything they have into it. Get the North Koreans to push south, invade Taiwan. This level of operation is much much larger and more complex than anything the Chinese have attempted in the past 80 years. If achieved however it would enable China to combine its fleets, have a favourable government in Korea. Then enabling them to threaten Japan directly. If China doesn't care about allies then may as well just push while they can. Similar to Russia in Europe.
Can you clarify as to how you have come to the idea that Chinese and Japanese Navies are ahead of US?
Regarding Chinese fighting US; I don’t think that this will ever happen. Two nuclear powers will not fight each other. But Chinese may fight Japan, Taiwan and Korea. US will help them and use them as proxies against China. Hence the Japanese agreement with Vietnam, Taiwan, Korea and Indonesia. US is using Japan and other proxy states to encircle China. They can all fight China in a conventional war.
 

RogerRanger

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Can you clarify as to how you have come to the idea that Chinese and Japanese Navies are ahead of US?
Regarding Chinese fighting US; I don’t think that this will ever happen. Two nuclear powers will not fight each other. But Chinese may fight Japan, Taiwan and Korea. US will help them and use them as proxies against China. Hence the Japanese agreement with Vietnam, Taiwan, Korea and Indonesia. US is using Japan and other proxy states to encircle China. They can all fight China in a conventional war.
Its very simple, the Chinese have the best navy for their requirements, second the Japanese, third the Americans. In terms of China fighting the Americans in where a war could happen the Chinese have the best navy, then Japan, then USA. The USA is partly pulling back from Afro-Eu-Asia because it doesn't need to be their anymore and partly because it can't afford it anymore. Its fleet has been shrinking for 30 years, as well as its overseas forces. So for its requirements its not as capable as the Chinese and Japanese. In terms of just raw power the American navy could still defeat all the navies of the rest of the world combined, several times over. If they all attacked the US. But where the wars will be fought, the Chinese and Japanese would have a good chance against the Americans.

The US doesn't care anymore to be honest, it knows that China isn't really a threat, and the Japan's navy would deal with it on its own. I also think its wrong to consider the Japanese being used by the Americans, what's really happening is the Americans are pulling back and the Japanese are moving into form their own alliance to protect their interests, the fact this helps the Americans and opposes China is just a knock on effect. Even the British are trying to move into the space left by the Americans pulling back. The British and French have been moving back into the middle east as well. As the Americans leave the old colonial powers will come back, they were all repressed by the American Pax. So we could see a 4 part alliance between the UK/France/India/Japan for the time being to maintain the global or regional trade system. If you take the British carriers and SSN's, the Japanese carrier escorts, the French amphibious assault ships and the Indian ship building program, and location. That would be a force powerful enough to somewhat replace the Americans Pax. None of these countries are really competitors, they are all able to be allies on global trade as the Americans pull back. The British controlled India for over a century, have Hindu's in the British government, the French and British have been allies for 170 years, the British and Japanese were allies. So its perfectly possible for them to be allies for the next decade or so picking up where the Americans have left off. You can add Australia/New Zealand to that, as well as some other smaller countries. The opposition to this will come from Germany/Russia/Turkey/Israel/China.
 

beijingwalker

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When you guys talk about wars, you forget a very important factor, economy and trade. Looking from this perspective, you can see how remotely wars can happen between these players.
 

Yasar

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Its very simple, the Chinese have the best navy for their requirements, second the Japanese, third the Americans. In terms of China fighting the Americans in where a war could happen the Chinese have the best navy, then Japan, then USA. The USA is partly pulling back from Afro-Eu-Asia because it doesn't need to be their anymore and partly because it can't afford it anymore. Its fleet has been shrinking for 30 years, as well as its overseas forces. So for its requirements its not as capable as the Chinese and Japanese. In terms of just raw power the American navy could still defeat all the navies of the rest of the world combined, several times over. If they all attacked the US. But where the wars will be fought, the Chinese and Japanese would have a good chance against the Americans.

The US doesn't care anymore to be honest, it knows that China isn't really a threat, and the Japan's navy would deal with it on its own. I also think its wrong to consider the Japanese being used by the Americans, what's really happening is the Americans are pulling back and the Japanese are moving into form their own alliance to protect their interests, the fact this helps the Americans and opposes China is just a knock on effect. Even the British are trying to move into the space left by the Americans pulling back. The British and French have been moving back into the middle east as well. As the Americans leave the old colonial powers will come back, they were all repressed by the American Pax. So we could see a 4 part alliance between the UK/France/India/Japan for the time being to maintain the global or regional trade system. If you take the British carriers and SSN's, the Japanese carrier escorts, the French amphibious assault ships and the Indian ship building program, and location. That would be a force powerful enough to somewhat replace the Americans Pax. None of these countries are really competitors, they are all able to be allies on global trade as the Americans pull back. The British controlled India for over a century, have Hindu's in the British government, the French and British have been allies for 170 years, the British and Japanese were allies. So its perfectly possible for them to be allies for the next decade or so picking up where the Americans have left off. You can add Australia/New Zealand to that, as well as some other smaller countries. The opposition to this will come from Germany/Russia/Turkey/Israel/China.
I thought you were going to give me concrete reasons and proof about US navy being third powerful in the world. But in stead you have sidetracked, moved the goalpost and also contradicted yourself at the end of the first paragraph by admitting that US navy could defeat all the navies in the world combined.
I rest my case!
As @beijingwalker has stated there are economical repercussions of any war on the participants as well.
 

Saithan

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As I see it the West need to reconsider their investments and optimise investments to other developing countries and expect nothing more than return on their investment on let's say 1-5% interest payment.

Doing this would create jobs and more influence in these countries and potentially create a better impression and relation. As of now the west doesn't seem to be able to make these investments leaving a powergap that China exploits to gain influence.

Also not to forget back in Clintons time (Bill's) they thought capitalism would win over China, but that was a major miscalculation, it just contributed to pure export-import net earnings to China at... somewhere around 200 billion USD a year.

Now that's a lot of money that can be channelled into PLA, Navy air even the militia fishermen occupying Spratly islands in West Philippine Sea.
 

UkroTurk 🚬

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As I have said before China for me has the best navy in the world now, with Japan second and US 3rd.
Do USA know about your opinion? Let's warn US president in order not to be defeated.
LoL
 

T-123456

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Its very simple, the Chinese have the best navy for their requirements, second the Japanese, third the Americans. In terms of China fighting the Americans in where a war could happen the Chinese have the best navy, then Japan, then USA. The USA is partly pulling back from Afro-Eu-Asia because it doesn't need to be their anymore and partly because it can't afford it anymore. Its fleet has been shrinking for 30 years, as well as its overseas forces. So for its requirements its not as capable as the Chinese and Japanese. In terms of just raw power the American navy could still defeat all the navies of the rest of the world combined, several times over. If they all attacked the US. But where the wars will be fought, the Chinese and Japanese would have a good chance against the Americans.

The US doesn't care anymore to be honest, it knows that China isn't really a threat, and the Japan's navy would deal with it on its own. I also think its wrong to consider the Japanese being used by the Americans, what's really happening is the Americans are pulling back and the Japanese are moving into form their own alliance to protect their interests, the fact this helps the Americans and opposes China is just a knock on effect. Even the British are trying to move into the space left by the Americans pulling back. The British and French have been moving back into the middle east as well. As the Americans leave the old colonial powers will come back, they were all repressed by the American Pax. So we could see a 4 part alliance between the UK/France/India/Japan for the time being to maintain the global or regional trade system. If you take the British carriers and SSN's, the Japanese carrier escorts, the French amphibious assault ships and the Indian ship building program, and location. That would be a force powerful enough to somewhat replace the Americans Pax. None of these countries are really competitors, they are all able to be allies on global trade as the Americans pull back. The British controlled India for over a century, have Hindu's in the British government, the French and British have been allies for 170 years, the British and Japanese were allies. So its perfectly possible for them to be allies for the next decade or so picking up where the Americans have left off. You can add Australia/New Zealand to that, as well as some other smaller countries. The opposition to this will come from Germany/Russia/Turkey/Israel/China.
Its not simple,dont make such statements if you want to be taken serious.
 
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