Poland K239 Chunmoo Rocket Launcher System for Poland

Chocopie

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Latest promo-clip of Hanwha for Homar-K:

„HOMAR-K 🇵🇱, debuted at #MSPO2023 after successful integration and mobility and firepower tests in South Korea 🇰🇷
The latest video about HOMAR-K on the Linkedin platform“


Now on Youtube as well:

Big fan of the Jelcz 8x8 truck and the Polish truck driver cruising in Korea!!! 😁
 
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That video is awesome.
Why does Jelcz 8×8 gives an old school hard core vibe?🙃
 

steelfec

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Does anyone of you know the length and height of the longer containers of the K239 systems, shown at Jelcz, or do you know the length and caliber of the missiles that are to be installed in these containers?


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Chocopie

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Does anyone of you know the length and height of the longer containers of the K239 systems, shown at Jelcz, or do you know the length and caliber of the missiles that are to be installed in these containers?


YTFjMDAwdjUnCDt3bgx7IGRQby0oVXV2M0h3Zm4UdmVxWH08bhEwOCMYKDQuWT4mMxosMzFZKThpCz0tbgFoeyIDPjQtFiB7IwcvISVYaWUiXShwdU90YHFbfWl1QGowa1N_fCRaP2N-Wyx1IkdpZHVYbzk



YmM4MmE3dgwsVjteakh7GW8ObwQsEXVPOBZ3T2oLYVs1AHRValUwAShGKB0qHT4fOEQsGjUdKQFiVT0EakVoQildPh0pUiBCKFkvCCEcaVp1AnsOJAR0VX0Nf0BxB2kLYAx7VScePwx4By8OfQE4WnQDbxA
This is the new version of the K239 launch container with 2x missile pod CTM290 (Chunmoo Tactical Missile, export model of KTSSM-II):
Diameter 600 mm,
Length ~ 4 m,
Weight ~1.5 t

Only measure of whole K239 launcher system disclosed (data sheet from 2014):
Dimension : about 9 m length x 3 m width x 4 m height
IMG_9183.jpeg

My guess: new Homar-K launch container itself is about 30-45 cm longer.
 
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steelfec

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This is the new version of the K239 launch container with 2x missile pod CTM290 (Chunmoo Tactical Missile, export model of KTSSM-II):
Diameter 600 mm,
Length ~ 4 m,
Weight ~1.5 t

Only measure of whole K239 launcher system disclosed (data sheet from 2014):
Dimension : about 9 m length x 3 m width x 4 m height
View attachment 60868
My guess: new Homar-K launch container itself is about 30-45 cm longer.
American containers, from what I read, are 158 inches long, or ~401 cm. It seems to me that it would be unreasonable to change this length in Korean systems, so I assume that 158 inches also works on K239.

However, I am wondering about the height of the containers. An American container can hold a 610mm missile. However, the Korean container housing the 600mm missile required cutting the lip/flap on the launcher. So either the original Korean containers are lower than the American ones, or the new Korean container has some reserve and may ultimately also accept a missile with a caliber slightly larger than 600 mm.

F4Jur2qX0AEKyql.jpg


K239_Chunmoo_003.jpg

On a different note. According to online sources, Korea recently purchased 9M96E missile technology from Russia for the development of its own anti-aircraft systems. The 9M96E missile has a caliber of 240mm. In turn, the basic missile of the K239 system has a caliber of 239 mm. This one millimeter difference could be due to either minor design changes/optimizations or even just a difference in rounding. Therefore, I will ask whether the similarity of the 240mm and 239mm calibers is accidental, or whether the initial origins of the 239mm artillery missile come from the transfer of the technology of the Russian 9M96E missile to Korea?

To be clear, the 9M96 family of missiles are good anti-aircraft missiles. The fact that I mention them is not an accusation. It just seems strange to me to build two separate and unrelated trains producing missiles that differ only by one millimeter in diameter.
 

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That video is awesome.
Why does Jelcz 8×8 gives an old school hard core vibe?🙃
These versions of Jelcz also have their own history. Well, during the Wisła I Program, the Polish side decided that we wanted to gain experience in the certification process required for a given product to be supplied to the US Armed Forces. Thus, as part of the negotiations, it was agreed that the Patriot systems purchased under the Wisła I program would not only be mounted on Jelcz trucks, but what is more, these Jelcz trucks would be purchased by the Polish side in the FMS formula. This meant that Jelcz trucks in several versions had to undergo American certification procedures and then be added to the list of equipment certified by the US Armed Forces.

And this is how new Jelcz units were created, which, on the one hand, had to fully meet the requirements of the Polish side in terms of armor, equipment, etc., and on the other hand, they had to meet the requirements of the American side so that they could be certified as equipment available to the US Armed Forces, because only such equipment could be offered to Poland under the FMS formula.

Polish media reported then that all versions of Jelcz trucks intended for the Wisła program, before being sent to American training grounds for certification, had undergone brutal tests in Poland organized by the manufacturer itself.

Jelcz trucks of the same generation were planned as carriers of the K239 sets.

So driving the Jelcz on a concrete obstacle course may look cool, but I assure you that these trucks can do "a little" more. ;)


There is also a 10x10 Jelcz version dedicated to very demanding tasks.


 

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On a different note. According to online sources, Korea recently purchased 9M96E missile technology from Russia for the development of its own anti-aircraft systems. The 9M96E missile has a caliber of 240mm. In turn, the basic missile of the K239 system has a caliber of 239 mm. This one millimeter difference could be due to either minor design changes/optimizations or even just a difference in rounding. Therefore, I will ask whether the similarity of the 240mm and 239mm calibers is accidental, or whether the initial origins of the 239mm artillery missile come from the transfer of the technology of the Russian 9M96E missile to Korea?

To be clear, the 9M96 family of missiles are good anti-aircraft missiles. The fact that I mention them is not an accusation. It just seems strange to me to build two separate and unrelated trains producing missiles that differ only by one millimeter in diameter.
M-SAM (Cheongung Block I missile) are roughly based on technology transfer of 9M96E design by Russian Fakel bureau. The Korean missile by LIG Nex1 is quite different to the original version.

- different sizes
- different interception methods / warheads
- differen fuze control of Korean missile (no front canards)

Russian 9M96E (S-350 Vityaz):
Speed? mach 3 - 5
Weight333 kg
Length4.75 m
Diameter240 mm

9M96_MAKS-2017_2_02.jpg



Cheongung Block I (= M-SAM I):
manufacturing companysystem
LIG Nex1
warhead/propellant
Hanwha Group
length4.61 m
diameter275 mm
weight400 kg
speedmach 4 - 5

Cheongung Block I.jpg

M-SAM I.jpg



M-SAM Block II has front canards (introduced 2020) with same length and diameter as Block I:
Cheongung Block II.jpg

M-SAM II.jpg


Back to your original question: the larger dimensions and sophisticated technology involved in Korean SAM development speaks against an adaptation of Russian missile tech to guided artillery rockets of K239. Another argument: Hanwha produces Chunmoo missiles, LIG Nex1 the M-SAM. Both often work together in joint development projects, but they're big rivals with overlapping defense portfolios.


Further indications of US artillery rocket influence:

Afaik, undguided and guided rockets of K239 are based on US technology transfer. ROKA had M270 MLRS in it's inventory before the Chunmoo development. Hanwha license-built rockets for M270.
- 227 mm M26 unguided rockets (KM26 in Korea)
- 230 mm unguided KM26A2 based on 227 mm M26A2 (DPCIM and unitary penetration warhead)
- 239 mm guided K239 missile designed with different warheads than US 227 mm GMLRS M30/31 (more cluster pellets, heavier penetration warhead)

The diameter difference was due to IP rights infringement and independence from the 2018 cluster bomb ban and denied US certification for rocket production with >1% dud rate.
ROKA wanted to secure a steady supply of homemade DPICM ammo for M270 and K239 MLRS without legal clusterfuck with US Congress and because of better domestic cost efficiency.

230 mm unguided KM26A2:
230 mm K26A2.jpg


239 mm guided Chunmoo I:
Chunmoo I.jpg

239 mm.jpg


According to this Korean Military blogger, the 6x 239 mm pods dimensions are as followed:
K239 Pod.jpg

The Korean pod would be longer than the US with 158 inches / 4013 mm, if these data are true.

 

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  • M-SAM I.jpg
    M-SAM I.jpg
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steelfec

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M-SAM (Cheongung Block I missile) are roughly based on technology transfer of 9M96E design by Russian Fakel bureau. The Korean missile by LIG Nex1 is quite different to the original version.

- different sizes
- different interception methods / warheads
- differen fuze control of Korean missile (no front canards)

Russian 9M96E (S-350 Vityaz):
Speed? mach 3 - 5
Weight333 kg
Length4.75 m
Diameter240 mm

View attachment 60897


Cheongung Block I (= M-SAM I):
manufacturing companysystem
LIG Nex1
warhead/propellant
Hanwha Group
length4.61 m
diameter275 mm
weight400 kg
speedmach 4 - 5

View attachment 60912
View attachment 60901


M-SAM Block II has front canards (introduced 2020) with same length and diameter as Block I:
View attachment 60902
View attachment 60904

Back to your original question: the larger dimensions and sophisticated technology involved in Korean SAM development speaks against an adaptation of Russian missile tech to guided artillery rockets of K239. Another argument: Hanwha produces Chunmoo missiles, LIG Nex1 the M-SAM. Both often work together in joint development projects, but they're big rivals with overlapping defense portfolios.


Further indications of US artillery rocket influence:

Afaik, undguided and guided rockets of K239 are based on US technology transfer. ROKA had M270 MLRS in it's inventory before the Chunmoo development. Hanwha license-built rockets for M270.
- 227 mm M26 unguided rockets (KM26 in Korea)
- 230 mm unguided KM26A2 based on 227 mm M26A2 (DPCIM and unitary penetration warhead)
- 239 mm guided K239 missile designed with different warheads than US 227 mm GMLRS M30/31 (more cluster pellets, heavier penetration warhead)

The diameter difference was due to IP rights infringement and independence from the 2018 cluster bomb ban and denied US certification for rocket production with >1% dud rate.
ROKA wanted to secure a steady supply of homemade DPICM ammo for M270 and K239 MLRS without legal clusterfuck with US Congress and because of better domestic cost efficiency.

230 mm unguided KM26A2:
View attachment 60914

239 mm guided Chunmoo I:
View attachment 60907
View attachment 60908

According to this Korean Military blogger, the 6x 239 mm pods dimensions are as followed:
View attachment 60913
The Korean pod would be longer than the US with 158 inches / 4013 mm, if these data are true.

Thank you very much for this very interesting information. I will refer to them later and ask some questions. For now, I will return the favor briefly. I think that even many Poles reading this forum may be surprised, because this information, although public, was not widely disseminated. You had to make an effort to reach them and put them together into one logical sequence.

In the middle of the last decade, Polish negotiators negotiated with the Americans the construction of a missile factory in Poland for the HIMARS system. As part of the concept presented at that time, all components except the guidance module and GPS were to be manufactured in Poland. It seems that at that time the plan was not to obtain these elements under license, but to install components developed in Poland, identical or similar in their parameters to those produced by the Americans.

One could even risk saying that the subject of negotiations was the construction of a Polish 227mm caliber missile for HIMARS systems, with the American golden part in the form of GPS modules and guidance.

5873cf2945e51_o_large.jpg

Importantly, at the end of 2016, two research programs were launched, financed by the Ministry of National Defense. One concerned the construction of rocket engines, the other concerned the development of executive systems for controlling missiles (aerodynamic rudders and gas-dynamic rudders). At least one of these programs included a note in its explicit description that the program should be implemented with a foreign partner with appropriate experience. 2-3 weeks before the approval of both of these programs, Poland signed an agreement on military and technical cooperation with Ukraine. This agreement included a secret annex regarding the joint development of, among other things, missiles. The information about such an annex was public, the Polish Minister of National Defense even outlined in general terms that it was about missiles. However, the details themselves were classified.

Fo2xNHGWAAAYaSy.jpg



Fo2vQ3LX0AILFOI.jpg


Fo2vUoIXEAcXSJk.jpg

It is worth mentioning here that Ukraine inherited a large part of the space industry from the Soviet Union and several significant research and development offices. Poland contributed at least better fuels and its fixation on light rocket bodies, and probably financial resources, to this project.

It is true that an intergovernmental agreement with an annex on cooperation in the field of missiles was signed. A few weeks later, grants for the development of missile elements were also approved in Poland, which indicated that a foreign partner was to participate in it, but officially no one has ever directly confirmed that such cooperation took place. That is why currently, both in Ukraine and in Poland, many people believe that certain things are only due to their scientists. ;) And so be it. ;)

Anyway, it has practical applications for today. Well, it seems that currently we cannot yet produce the entire Polish missile of 227 mm caliber or similar, but we can still be a supplier of ready-made components for it. It might seem that the Americans would not want to go for it and would insist that 100% of the components were licensed by them. But maybe it just seems that way.

Already during the Wisła I Program, Lockheed Martin agreed to commission the Polish side to develop an unnamed module for the PAC-3 MSE missile, which, after undergoing full certification, was to replace the module then used in the PAC-3 MSE missiles. Taking into account the importance of the PAC-3 MSE missiles for the air defense of the United States and its allies, it should be assumed that the Americans, after auditing the Polish companies, must have been convinced that changing the supplier would not have a negative impact on the quality, and that potential suppliers had the potential to cope with the task. So I guess these Poles can do something after all. ;)

Additionally, literally a few dozen hours ago, something that had been speculated about for some time happened: Lockheed Martin and Raytheon signed an agreement with PGZ, under which they will check the capabilities of the Polish industry to produce Javelin missiles. Rumors have it that not all elements produced in Poland must be produced under license. Some of them may be developed in Poland and may replace those currently used as better solutions.

And here comes the issue of cooperation with Korea around 239mm, or perhaps 227mm or 230mm, rockets. I think that if the Korean side insists on not agreeing to any polonization, the cooperation in the field of rocket artillery will be shorter than longer, which I would consider a disadvantageous situation for both sides. Especially since we seem to have "interesting times" ahead of us.

I don't know if this topic was mentioned in the Korean media. However, information appeared at least several times in the Polish media that, in the face of the Ukrainian experience, which showed what was happening to the defense industry of a country participating in the conflict and under fire from long-range missiles, the Korean side was clearly interested in building production lines in Poland, which in the event of war Asia could, away from that region, produce equipment and ammunition for Korea. However, these words were spoken by politicians, so I don't know how much they can be believed. ;)

And how it will be, time will tell. It seems that at the moment the Polish side has contracted the production in Poland of missiles for three salvos for the K239, which we have already ordered and will order later. What will happen once these missiles are produced?

Personally, I believe that countries such as Poland and Korea, which are exposed to missile attacks from neighboring countries, should be interested in having additional sources of supplies of weapons and ammunition that are already known and implemented in their armies. However, this is only my opinion, and the decision will be made by politicians, businessmen and military men from Korea and Poland.
 

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After seeing Jelcz with our launcher: Chunmoo’s Doosan truck is ugly as hell 🧐😂
If you fell in love with Jelcz, ;) here is an interview with the president of the Jelcz company. Unfortunately, the film is only in Polish, but it contains a lot of photos and videos of Jelcz.

 

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Speaking of Jelcz and rocket artillery, one cannot fail to mention Langust and Langust II.
In the first decade of the 21st century, the Polish Army decided to carry out a low-budget modernization of Soviet BM-21 rocket launchers. This is how, after transferring some elements from the BM-21, the WR-40 Langusta was born.

Some shots of using the Langusta on Jelcz.

A few years later, the Polish arms industry wanted to interest the Army in a new, more capacious Langusta, with its solutions somewhat related to the Czechoslovak MR-70 launcher, which was used in the Polish Army. This is how the Langusta II demonstrator was born. However, the program was not implemented at that time.

p0ads1-dsc09860.jpg


13cb7f_main.jpg


langusta-ang-1.jpg


70702d_main.jpg


It turns out that the program was reborn after many years like a phoenix from the ashes, although no one seems to know for sure in what shape. Just a year ago it was said that Langusta II would be a carrier for Turkish Khan missiles, manufactured in Poland under license. Currently, media interviews suggest that it will simply be a 122mm rocket launcher. It is possible that it is similar to the one presented many years ago.

In my opinion, however, as of today, there is no point in sticking to either the vision of the Khan missiles or the Polish 122mm Feniks missile launcher. In my opinion, the military negotiation team, which, as I wrote earlier in another post, is also responsible for anti-aircraft programs, must first collect at the analytical level the capabilities that it managed to negotiate and contract, both in the US and in Korea, and then compare them with the needs of the Polish Armed Forces. In my opinion, the difference between what has been negotiated and what the Polish Army needs will materialize in the form of Langusta II. ;)
 

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Polish export model Chunmu (Homar K), 300 km class missile live-fire video
The Homar K test launch took place at the 2nd launch site of the Agency for Defense Development's Anheung Test Site at approximately 4 p.m. on April 24, 2024.
Homar K is Chunmu’s Polish localization model. It is a combination of Hanwha Aerospace's Cheonmu launcher and a truck produced by Polish defense company JELCZ. The launch was attended by military officials from around the world, including Poland's Deputy Minister of Defense.
On this day, Homar K launched a 300km missile CTM290, and the missile flew for about 200 seconds and accurately hit the target, informing the world of K Defense's excellence.
 

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Looks great! I thought CTM290 stands for 290km? Anyway, does it perform evasive maneuvers like Iskander?
 

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South Korea's Hanwha to supply more rocket launchers to Poland for $1.64 billion

"
SEOUL :South Korea's Hanwha Aerospace said on Thursday it signed a $1.64 billion deal to supply 72 Chunmoo rocket artillery units to Poland, part of an estimated $22 billion agreement Seoul reached with Poland in 2022.

Poland had already agreed on terms to acquire 218 Chunmoos as part of the 2022 deal, which was South Korea's largest-ever arms sale."

Deliveries 2026-29
And that will complete our Korean rocket artillery contract with 290 Chunmoo (Homar K) launchers to be delivered in the next 5 years. (18 are already in Poland)
 

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South Korea's Hanwha to supply more rocket launchers to Poland for $1.64 billion

"
SEOUL :South Korea's Hanwha Aerospace said on Thursday it signed a $1.64 billion deal to supply 72 Chunmoo rocket artillery units to Poland, part of an estimated $22 billion agreement Seoul reached with Poland in 2022.

Poland had already agreed on terms to acquire 218 Chunmoos as part of the 2022 deal, which was South Korea's largest-ever arms sale."

Deliveries 2026-29
And that will complete our Korean rocket artillery contract with 290 Chunmoo (Homar K) launchers to be delivered in the next 5 years. (18 are already in Poland)

Do we know how many rockets in this contract or the previous one?
 

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In the previous one it was 13 000, in this one they only said "few thousand"
Mostly of course CGR-80 but we bought also CTM-290 but how many we don't know, hundred, few hundreds?

But it is something, 290 launchers with thousand rockets can do some damage on the front line and you cant destroy them all.
 

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In the previous one it was 13 000, in this one they only said "few thousand"
Mostly of course CGR-80 but we bought also CTM-290 but how many we don't know, hundred, few hundreds?

But it is something, 290 launchers with thousand rockets can do some damage on the front line and you cant destroy them all.

'Some damage'? What's with the modesty? Such huge amount of firepower would smash any army in Europe.
 
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