TR UAV/UCAV Programs | Anka - series | Kızılelma | TB - series

[Heartbang]

Imagine selling both to the Republic of Korea and Japan. Wouldn't that be absolutely perfect?

that would be, and i cannot stress this enough, poggers.

 

[dBSPL]

image them buying Akıncı or Kızılelma

Korea, Japan and Australia are the most important potential markets for TB-3. For Korea and Japan, double/triple packages including AKINCI and KE are definitely on the agenda. If Baykar can reach even one of these markets, it will be on its way to becoming a global leader in its field within 8-10 years. It is already the world leader in tactical systems.

 

[Yasar_TR]

There is so much talk and statements made by officials that the TB3 and/or KE will be taking off and landing on TCG Anadolu.
Never mind these two totally different drones, there is also talk about Hurjet landing on this LHD as well..
If we look at the realities of TCG Anadolu;
1. We paid a lot of money to cover the deck with a special material to withstand the intense heat created by F35-B. If we are to land any planes on it conventionally it has to be with arresting wires. Are we prepared to destroy the deck at the stern of this ship?
2. If we look at the ship’s deck on the stern, there is a huge lift. There is another big lift just in front of the command bridge. The second one is out of the way. But the one in the aft is a problem. Any plane’s wheels touching this lift‘s surface during landing, will damage it. So who in the right mind can envisage risking a plane landing on to this ship in a conventional way? Landing on a moving and bopping up and down surface/runway is a feat in it’s own right. But trying to avoid a lift as well, would raise the ante even further.
3. We know that the ship’s length is 232m. But that includes the aft lift and the dropped deck above the internal docking hatch. So the effective runway is probably under 200metres. So the planes will have to take off from a fairly short runway. With the right amount of thrust and wing geometry this should be achievable. But not as easy as we are led to believe.
4. Due to different weights of planes needing different arresting wire hydraulic system set-ups, landing multiple weighted planes become a more difficult job too. If the hydraulic arrestor is set-up for a 10 ton Hurjet, it would damage the much lighter drones.

In short, it is a rather tall order to land any plane on to our TCG Anadolu. I would like to see how they are going to tackle all the difficulties that are listed above.

 

[Anmdt]

There is so much talk and statements made by officials that the TB3 and/or KE will be taking off and landing on TCG Anadolu.
Never mind these two totally different drones, there is also talk about Hurjet landing on this LHD as well..

Been writing this since years such a concept requires new studies for landing algorithms, landing gear design (even without arrest gears), and a major overhaul in case of catapult - arrest gear modification. TB3 is more than enough for Anadolu to support amphibious operations. KE is definitely intended for the next ship along with manned and other unmanned platform.

For TB3; Baykar intends to stop if with a net (likely as last resort after flaps - brakes etc) , and we shall see whether it works. For KE this is not possible. If they truly design a modular arrest net and short landing capable langing gears - brakes for TB3 then it will attract a lot of users.

 

[Anmdt]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591036753263341570

PD170, an aviation diesel engine capable of reaching and operating @45k feet.
Wait, they wouldn't have tried this altitude with Anka+ or could they? Could it be either Akıncı (that was once claimed to be equipped with PD for a variant) or Aksungur.

 

[Zafer]

TB3 should be fairly easy to operate from LHD Anadolu. For Hürjet and Kızılelma I suggest they use a THRUST REVERSER to slow down planes, fairly easy again.

 

[AWP]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590968082583146496

Even South Korea has entered the Akıncı queue.

the thing about SK that they buy big amount of weaponry in each deal . I think they will order not less than 50 Akinci

but let's see if the US will put some pressure on SK to cancel the deal and go for some expansive american drone

 

[dBSPL]

the thing about SK that they buy big amount of weaponry in each deal . I think they will order not less than 50 Akinci

but let's see if the US will put some pressure on SK to cancel the deal and go for some expansive american drone

If Korea is buying AKINCI, 1000% they will also buy TB-3. This will open a total business volume that probably cover of over 100 aircraft. Being a system supplier to the Korean navy aviation and air force will also have indirect benefits.

I would like to open a separate parenthesis especially for the TB-3. The TB-3 is a UAV developed on the basis of TB-2, which has proven itself in actively many combats. And has no equivalent in the world. There is a similar UAV work in a heavier class, but it is also under development and is unlikely to be procured in the near future for other countries except the US. Almost all of the navies that have or will soon acquire an LHD are closely involved in this project.

Also, We should have already analyzed in detail for pages the innovations that the AKINCI system will bring to the battlefield and that it will be the most important competitor to the US tier-1 UCAVs with its 50K ft service ceiling and approximately 2 tons of load capacity, as well as its system design features.

2023 is an important year for Baykar as well as for our country. AKINCI-C, TB-3 and KIZILELMA have an important meaning not only for Turkish aviation but also for the non-US world aviation. Baykar just a few steps away from becoming the world's leading niche company specializing in UAVs.

 

[Bogeyman]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590968082583146496

Even South Korea has entered the Akıncı queue.

*Correction

My source said that South Korea is not interested in Akıncı, but in Kızılelma.

My guess is they want to be a partner in the project

 

[MADDOG]

TB3 should be fairly easy to operate from LHD Anadolu. For Hürjet and Kızılelma I suggest they use a THRUST REVERSER to slow down planes, fairly easy again.

Is the engine or the airframe configurable to that approach though? It's not common for military aircraft to have reverse thrust. In fact the only fighter jet that has it is the Panavia Tornado I believe. Is it a positive to have? For sure. But if an aircraft has an acceptable stopping distance, its necessity would be questioned. When there is so much room for potential growth elsewhere, I don't think TEI engineers (I would assume so from your argument) should be tasked with developing additional thrust reversers for their engines. I'm also not taking into account the time constraints that are currently in place.

 

[Zafer]

Is the engine or the airframe configurable to that approach though? It's not common for military aircraft to have reverse thrust. In fact the only fighter jet that has it is the Panavia Tornado I believe. Is it a positive to have? For sure. But if an aircraft has an acceptable stopping distance, its necessity would be questioned. When there is so much room for potential growth elsewhere, I don't think TEI engineers (I would assume so from your argument) should be tasked with developing additional thrust reversers for their engines. I'm also not taking into account the time constraints that are currently in place.

The benefits outweighs the burden by a lot. This way they can probably ditch the cable arrest system altogether. There are are three different systems used for this purpose and the simplest one is simple enough to implement outside of the engine. TEI has the capability to design a whole new engine from scratch in a couple of years and build the prototype in around a year, they can make this system work in three months tops. If they can not operate Hürjet from LHD Anadolu I will blame them for not trying this technology.

Motor Sich company can be asked to do this too for their engines powering Kızılelma if they are not finding a good way to operate it on the ship otherwise.

 

[Heartbang]

For Hürjet and Kızılelma I suggest they use a THRUST REVERSER to slow down planes, fairly easy again.

no need for thrust reversers. theyll use STOBAR method(short take-off but arrested recovery).
once you catch the arrestor wire with the aircrafts hook, the whole airframe stops on a dime, much more efficiently than a thrust reverser ever could.

 

[Radonsider]

no need for thrust reversers. theyll use STOBAR method(short take-off but arrested recovery).
once you catch the arrestor wire with the aircrafts hook, the whole airframe stops on a dime, much more efficiently than a thrust reverser ever could.

Exactly, Baykar also used arrestor gear for their simulations, you are overthinking people!

 

[Zafer]

Blame it on those who keep moaning that the ship's precious tarmac made for F35B planes will be damaged by Turkish planes.

 

[Anmdt]

Exactly, Baykar also used arrestor gear for their simulations, you are overthinking people!

Yes Baykar used it as such thus we should cut and weld on Anadolu and tow it back into dockyard for another 2-3 years right after its commissioned. Because TN already has a great LHD experience for a year during the tests and does not really need a flagship to command a theater level joint operation.

Baykar also has shown a hybrid missile-barrel ciws on Anadolu, so we should make one because they envisaged it as such.

Eventually there will be a STOBAR capable AC. And maybe next year they will leave Anadolu alone and start to show animations with the new ship.

I would also very like Anadolu to be capable of KE - TB3 and even a small sized stealth sized jet based drone but not within next 10 years please. TN needs a proper experience that should be built before operating an AC with an aviation wing.

 

[Lool]

*Correction

My source said that South Korea is not interested in Akıncı, but in Kızılelma.

My guess is they want to be a partner in the project

If they do want to be a partner, then a tough decision will be ahead for Turkey

Kizilelma is a national project; i-e, it marks and acts as a significant sign for Turkey's autonomy, national strength, technological feat, as well as army's strength. Having Turkey taking in a partner and sharing in sensitive data which might fall into other hands when SK makes other deals with foreign nations is a possibility. Rn, they are Turkey's ally but who knows what the future holds


On the other hand, South Korea were really good friends to Turkey till date and aided Turkey a lot when shit hits the fan! They aided Turkey economically with the currency swap deal, aided in the Altay's design making and even aided Erdogan and Turkey in slavaging the Altay tank from being a failure of an adventure after the german embargo and the Ethem Sancak row. If Erdogan did roll out the Altay in 2023 and won in the election, then a part of the credit certainly goes to South Korea for saving his balls and SSB reputation

All in all, I think it would be good to have South Korea on the team with Kizilelma! Who knows, Both Turkey and South Korea might gain benefits through sharing what they learned from BAE and Boeing respectively or even sharing their insights on how to make projects like Kizilelma and TFX and KF-21 even better!

Possibly, lets add japan into the mix as well! Its high time I see a fighting robot for Gods sake

 

[Fuzuli NL]

11 Nov 2022
China Electronics Technology Group Corporation, known popularly as CETC, has unveiled its new unmanned aerial vehicle at the Zhuhai Airshow 2022 international aerospace exhibition, according to Clash Report. The new unmanned aircraft, showcased at China’s biggest arms expo, features an admitted cribbing of the Turkish legendary Bayraktar TB2 drone’s design. The mockup completely repeats the unique technical solutions of the Turkish drone and features a monocoque design integrating an inverse v-tail structure. The engine is also positioned between the tail booms. Even the position of the engine air intake is completely identical to the Turkish original. Clash Report sarcastically said in a Twitter post that “If you can’t beat them, make them yourself.” The Bayraktar TB2, known popularly as “Pantsir-hunter”, is a medium-altitude, long-range tactical Unmanned Aircraft System. It was developed by Kale-Baykar, a joint venture of Baykar Makina and the Kale Group. This type of Unmanned Aircraft System marks the crown jewels of Turkey’s drone warfare arsenal with thousands of combat flight hours from North Africa to Ukraine.

 

[Fuzuli NL]

 

[Brokengineer]

If they do want to be a partner, then a tough decision will be ahead for Turkey

Kizilelma is a national project; i-e, it marks and acts as a significant sign for Turkey's autonomy, national strength, technological feat, as well as army's strength. Having Turkey taking in a partner and sharing in sensitive data which might fall into other hands when SK makes other deals with foreign nations is a possibility. Rn, they are Turkey's ally but who knows what the future holds


On the other hand, South Korea were really good friends to Turkey till date and aided Turkey a lot when shit hits the fan! They aided Turkey economically with the currency swap deal, aided in the Altay's design making and even aided Erdogan and Turkey in slavaging the Altay tank from being a failure of an adventure after the german embargo and the Ethem Sancak row. If Erdogan did roll out the Altay in 2023 and won in the election, then a part of the credit certainly goes to South Korea for saving his balls and SSB reputation

All in all, I think it would be good to have South Korea on the team with Kizilelma! Who knows, Both Turkey and South Korea might gain benefits through sharing what they learned from BAE and Boeing respectively or even sharing their insights on how to make projects like Kizilelma and TFX and KF-21 even better!

Possibly, lets add japan into the mix as well! Its high time I see a fighting robot for Gods sake

For the Caliber of Ke project, they could partner as some parts production in sk and share the burden. No technology transfer in critical engineering tech as they offered for kf21 partnership. Simple as that.

 

[Fuzuli NL]

Just like every country which attempted to make their own UCAVs used to imitate the US made MQ-9 and its derivatives, we can see now many are trying to clone the sophisticated yet very attractively priced Turkish drones:


Bayraktar TB-2:

Russia's Rostex with Korsar

Greece's Archytas drone (A project of a collective of universities)

China's CETC's UCAV

UAE's Edge Group with Reach-S

Baykar Akinci:

There is the Akinci clone from Paras, India:

TA ANKA:

There are several Iranian drones which resemble the TA ANKA

Here's one of them

Fact is, when you have a combat proven platform, everybody is going to try to copy it.