TR Navy Conceptual & Technology-Demonstration Designs

Anmdt

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In retrospect, it was not like an Onuk design.

Also the tweet defined “hücum” but put a LHD picture, so maybe they probably mean “amphibious assault” type ship, so why they chose the other ship? Probably they don’t know what they are doing?
I was trolled by my friend*, no worries he knows i am writing in some forums and he tries to figure out who i am. I was lured.
Onuk once used such a Mast and i should have realized from Bofors. This is how far i can see on mobile phone with my elf eyes.

*Who is a guy overseeing some projects at somewhere up in the high seats. I was blinded upon seeing the link especially after we have talked about 55 meters boat of Ekber Onuk last night and he has given some hints.

TL: DR
Trust your friends, but not the close ones.
 
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dustdevil

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I was trolled by my friend*, no worries he knows i am writing in some forums and he tries to figure out who i am. I was lured.
Onuk once used such a Mast and i should have realized from Bofors. This is how far i can see on mobile phone with my elf eyes.

*Who is a guy overseeing some projects at somewhere up in the high seats. I was blinded upon seeing the link especially after we have talked about 55 meters boat of Ekber Onuk last night and he has given some hints.

TL: DR
Trust your friends, but not the close ones.
No worries, I’m sure Onuk design will be a better one. And speeds above 50 knots with only diesel power would be incredible at that size.

Buy would Navy buy it? That’s my fear... Instead of composite hull, they could select a regular one with less speed and more problematic propulsion type... didn’t like Turkish type fast (edit: attact craft) patrol boat designs to be honest, but I’m not a navy guy and do not like most of the stuff and usually like the less likeable designs... (to be honest to myself: I like MİLGEM and İstif class designs. Meko and Perry are good looking designs, but so much clutter. All MRTP are nice, Tuzla class is super ugly, old German FACs are nice, sceptical about Ares designs, but again I’m no naval guy and don’t know what I talk about)
 
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Anmdt

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Buy would Navy buy it?
This is the reason i was hyped, while i know Turkish Navy will not procure something like that, but i received the link from someone i trust, someone in the business.

Meanwhile the platform Ekber Onuk had described fits perfect to FAC 55's definition, but i also think it is destined to a foreign customer just like MRTP 45-49 (51) unless Turkish Navy is interested in lighter composite (200-300 tonnes) and heavier (500-600 tonnes) steel fast attack craft combination.
FAC55 is seriously moving on even STM has assigned parts of design package to some subcontractors. This is they why i never expected this and over -hyped.


Turkish type fast patrol boat designs
Unfortunately it is the navy who wants the ultimate dream boat they even had to relax some requirements because it has beem impossible to catch it.
They ask for equipment of a corvette on a FAC, That is the best you get for that configuration. A jumbo FAC.
The EW requirement is crazy and on Par with frigates.


sceptical about Ares
Agree on this part, Ares has a good experience on yachts you can see their lines on these boats, it looks 'beatiful' and whenever i see something beautiful i start to wonder about applicability and performance.
 

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1623430586859.png


1623430661206.png

@Spook
The ultimate test-experimental vessel for R&D.
 
T

Turko

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The article claims "Turkish stream pipeline" turns out Russian secret weapon!
@Anmdt What would you say about this? Is it possible to use pipelines as spy tool?

Another question Do we need cover our coastal lines with those hydroacoustic systems?

Russia's Secret Weapons in the Black Sea: Hydroacoustic Systems That Spy on Us


Information and consulting company that covers issues of defense-industrial policy, military-technical cooperation, as well as defense and security policy of the state.

1623998632618.png


The Russian Federation secretly creates a new threat "from under the water", preparing an underwater foothold for total control over the Black Sea. The development of an echeloned system of illumination of the surface and underwater situation is carried out with the help of the production and implementation of the latest hydroacoustic systems.



This conclusion is made by the authors of a detailed analytical work entitled "Underwater Space of the Ukrainian Sea: Challenges and Threats". On July 10, this publication was published in the new issue of the Black Sea Security magazine, published by the Center for Global Studies "Strategy XXI".

We present for your acquaintance an interesting analysis of Russian hydroacoustic systems, which are being actively developed and used by the military leadership of the Russian Federation in the oceanic operational zone (first line); the far maritime operational zone (second line) and the near maritime operational zone (third line).

It is at the third stage that the coverage of the situation near the territorial waters of the Russian Federation is carried out, although in the context of the annexed Crimea, of course, this acquires a different interpretation.

So, what exactly is Russia using in the Black Sea region?

Passive sonar complex MGK-608

In the northwestern part of the Black Sea, starting in 2019, the placement of the MGK-608 stationary passive sonar complex has begun. A feature of this complex is that the installation of hydroacoustic buoys (antennas) is carried out at a distance of up to 200 kilometers from the coastline, and the detection radius is about 100-150 miles.
1623997716554.png

Defense Express
1623998195843.png

The transmission of data on the situation will be carried out via fiber-optic communication channels to the information processing and analysis point.

The transmission of data on the situation will be carried out via fiber-optic communication channels to the information processing and analysis point.


After the deployment of the hydroacoustic field from Cape Tarkhankut, probably to the area east of Zmeiny Island, the Russian Federation will be able to fully control the surface and underwater situation in the northwestern and western waters of the Black Sea.

Stationary hydroacoustic complex "Rationality VG-5"

Also, to determine the surface and underwater situation, both in the near sea operating zone and in the coastal zone of the Black Sea, a number of hydroacoustic systems have been deployed and will continue to be deployed, which will most likely also be integrated into the Unified State System of Surface and Underwater Situation Illumination.

We are talking about the stationary hydroacoustic complex "Rationality VG-5", designed for hydroacoustic reconnaissance and classification of underwater and surface targets (in sonar and noise direction finding modes), as well as to provide sound-conducting and acoustic telegraph communication with submarines and other objects in the open sea ...

RF secretly creates a new threat "from under the water"

As of today, it is known that the construction of the infrastructure of the control center for this complex is completed. Organizationally, it is part of the 14th observation area of the Novorossiysk naval base. In the future, the Russian Federation plans to deploy another such complex at Cape Sarych (temporarily occupied territory of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea).

Autonomous hydroacoustic stations "Amga-M"

Also, to determine the surface and underwater situation, the submarine detection system is used as part of the Amga-M autonomous hydroacoustic stations (AGAS), which are designed to search, detect, classify and track submarines, determine the direction of movement and transmit information about them to coastal or ship control points.
1623996731797.png

1623997670848.png

Defense Express

For the first time, such a submarine detection system in the number of twenty indicated stations was deployed at the beginning of 2014 in the sea area of the city of Sochi to ensure the safety of the Olympic Games. These measures made it possible to create an anti-submarine line with a length of up to one hundred kilometers and a width of up to six kilometers.
1623997757112.png

The stations can be controlled from a surface ship or a coastal control center using hydroacoustic communications, and the transmission of information from the AGAS about the detection of a submarine - by radio communications at a distance of up to sixty kilometers.



AGAS "Amga-M" provides a 360-degree field of view and can be anchored in areas with depths from 300 to 1500 meters. This ensures the hidden presence of the station at the position and of the entire submarine detection system as a whole.
1623996773561.png


Defense Express
1623997905170.png

Stationary electromagnetic station "Anaconda-SP"

The stationary electromagnetic station "Anaconda-SP" is designed to identify and classify underwater sabotage forces and assets (combat swimmers, unmanned underwater vehicles, etc.) at a distance of up to thirty kilometers.

The Russian Federation plans to commission two such stations, which will be located on the territory of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea. One - in the area of Cape Tarkhankut, the second - on Cape Chersonesos. The deployment of these stations will make it possible to strengthen the near defense zone of the Black Sea Fleet basing points, as well as critical civilian infrastructure, primarily from possible actions of submarine sabotage forces and assets.

Active magnetic acoustic station MG-818 "Diabaz"

To detect sabotage forces and assets in the near defense zone of basing points and other objects of the naval infrastructure, the Russian Federation plans to use the MG-818 "Diabaz" active magnetic-acoustic station (for detecting and classifying underwater sabotage forces and assets). Today, the combat capabilities of this station are being evaluated and the location of its further deployment is being determined.

AGAS "Amga-M", EMS "Anaconda-SP" and AMAS "Diabaz" are autonomous stations, which makes it possible to quickly deploy them in the Azov-Black Sea region. It is not ruled out that they can be used to protect the facilities seized by Russia at the gas fields of Chernomorneftegaz in the exclusive sea economic zone of Ukraine and the bridge over the Kerch Strait.

Defense Express

Delta-MGA system

During the period, during 2018-2019, tests and commissioning of the new Delta-MGA system were carried out, which is actively used in the interests of PJSC Gazprom (according to statements, in the interests of the safety of underwater gas pipelines). These hydroacoustic stations have been installed along the Turkish Stream gas pipeline.

The Russian Federation does not leave the prospect of building up hydroacoustic reconnaissance assets by placing them at the infrastructure facilities of the Blue Stream and Turkish Stream, which will practically lead to complete control of the underwater space of the Black Sea.
1623996862409.png

1623997988497.png

Thus, the Russian Federation secretly creates a new threat "from under the water", preparations are underway for an underwater bridgehead as an element of total control over the Black Sea and the transfer of the upcoming confrontation not only into space, but also under water.

Yuri Bakai, Anatoly Burgomistrenko, Sergey Gaiduk

Тайное оружие России в Черном море - гидроакустические системы, которые шпионят за нами - Defense Express : Тайное оружие России на Черном море: Гидроакустические системы, которые шпионят за нами - новости ZIKUA.TV
 

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Anmdt

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The article claims "Turkish stream pipeline" turns out Russian secret weapon!
@Anmdt What would you say about this? Is it possible to use pipelines as spy tool?

Another question Do we need cover our coastal lines with those hydroacoustic systems?

Russia's Secret Weapons in the Black Sea: Hydroacoustic Systems That Spy on Us


Information and consulting company that covers issues of defense-industrial policy, military-technical cooperation, as well as defense and security policy of the state.

View attachment 23491

The Russian Federation secretly creates a new threat "from under the water", preparing an underwater foothold for total control over the Black Sea. The development of an echeloned system of illumination of the surface and underwater situation is carried out with the help of the production and implementation of the latest hydroacoustic systems.



This conclusion is made by the authors of a detailed analytical work entitled "Underwater Space of the Ukrainian Sea: Challenges and Threats". On July 10, this publication was published in the new issue of the Black Sea Security magazine, published by the Center for Global Studies "Strategy XXI".

We present for your acquaintance an interesting analysis of Russian hydroacoustic systems, which are being actively developed and used by the military leadership of the Russian Federation in the oceanic operational zone (first line); the far maritime operational zone (second line) and the near maritime operational zone (third line).

It is at the third stage that the coverage of the situation near the territorial waters of the Russian Federation is carried out, although in the context of the annexed Crimea, of course, this acquires a different interpretation.

So, what exactly is Russia using in the Black Sea region?

Passive sonar complex MGK-608

In the northwestern part of the Black Sea, starting in 2019, the placement of the MGK-608 stationary passive sonar complex has begun. A feature of this complex is that the installation of hydroacoustic buoys (antennas) is carried out at a distance of up to 200 kilometers from the coastline, and the detection radius is about 100-150 miles.
View attachment 23485
Defense Express
View attachment 23490
The transmission of data on the situation will be carried out via fiber-optic communication channels to the information processing and analysis point.

The transmission of data on the situation will be carried out via fiber-optic communication channels to the information processing and analysis point.


After the deployment of the hydroacoustic field from Cape Tarkhankut, probably to the area east of Zmeiny Island, the Russian Federation will be able to fully control the surface and underwater situation in the northwestern and western waters of the Black Sea.

Stationary hydroacoustic complex "Rationality VG-5"

Also, to determine the surface and underwater situation, both in the near sea operating zone and in the coastal zone of the Black Sea, a number of hydroacoustic systems have been deployed and will continue to be deployed, which will most likely also be integrated into the Unified State System of Surface and Underwater Situation Illumination.

We are talking about the stationary hydroacoustic complex "Rationality VG-5", designed for hydroacoustic reconnaissance and classification of underwater and surface targets (in sonar and noise direction finding modes), as well as to provide sound-conducting and acoustic telegraph communication with submarines and other objects in the open sea ...

RF secretly creates a new threat "from under the water"

As of today, it is known that the construction of the infrastructure of the control center for this complex is completed. Organizationally, it is part of the 14th observation area of the Novorossiysk naval base. In the future, the Russian Federation plans to deploy another such complex at Cape Sarych (temporarily occupied territory of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea).

Autonomous hydroacoustic stations "Amga-M"

Also, to determine the surface and underwater situation, the submarine detection system is used as part of the Amga-M autonomous hydroacoustic stations (AGAS), which are designed to search, detect, classify and track submarines, determine the direction of movement and transmit information about them to coastal or ship control points.
1623996731797.png

View attachment 23484
Defense Express

For the first time, such a submarine detection system in the number of twenty indicated stations was deployed at the beginning of 2014 in the sea area of the city of Sochi to ensure the safety of the Olympic Games. These measures made it possible to create an anti-submarine line with a length of up to one hundred kilometers and a width of up to six kilometers.
View attachment 23486
The stations can be controlled from a surface ship or a coastal control center using hydroacoustic communications, and the transmission of information from the AGAS about the detection of a submarine - by radio communications at a distance of up to sixty kilometers.



AGAS "Amga-M" provides a 360-degree field of view and can be anchored in areas with depths from 300 to 1500 meters. This ensures the hidden presence of the station at the position and of the entire submarine detection system as a whole.
1623996773561.png


Defense Express
View attachment 23488
Stationary electromagnetic station "Anaconda-SP"

The stationary electromagnetic station "Anaconda-SP" is designed to identify and classify underwater sabotage forces and assets (combat swimmers, unmanned underwater vehicles, etc.) at a distance of up to thirty kilometers.

The Russian Federation plans to commission two such stations, which will be located on the territory of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea. One - in the area of Cape Tarkhankut, the second - on Cape Chersonesos. The deployment of these stations will make it possible to strengthen the near defense zone of the Black Sea Fleet basing points, as well as critical civilian infrastructure, primarily from possible actions of submarine sabotage forces and assets.

Active magnetic acoustic station MG-818 "Diabaz"

To detect sabotage forces and assets in the near defense zone of basing points and other objects of the naval infrastructure, the Russian Federation plans to use the MG-818 "Diabaz" active magnetic-acoustic station (for detecting and classifying underwater sabotage forces and assets). Today, the combat capabilities of this station are being evaluated and the location of its further deployment is being determined.

AGAS "Amga-M", EMS "Anaconda-SP" and AMAS "Diabaz" are autonomous stations, which makes it possible to quickly deploy them in the Azov-Black Sea region. It is not ruled out that they can be used to protect the facilities seized by Russia at the gas fields of Chernomorneftegaz in the exclusive sea economic zone of Ukraine and the bridge over the Kerch Strait.

Defense Express

Delta-MGA system

During the period, during 2018-2019, tests and commissioning of the new Delta-MGA system were carried out, which is actively used in the interests of PJSC Gazprom (according to statements, in the interests of the safety of underwater gas pipelines). These hydroacoustic stations have been installed along the Turkish Stream gas pipeline.

The Russian Federation does not leave the prospect of building up hydroacoustic reconnaissance assets by placing them at the infrastructure facilities of the Blue Stream and Turkish Stream, which will practically lead to complete control of the underwater space of the Black Sea.
1623996862409.png

View attachment 23489
Thus, the Russian Federation secretly creates a new threat "from under the water", preparations are underway for an underwater bridgehead as an element of total control over the Black Sea and the transfer of the upcoming confrontation not only into space, but also under water.

Yuri Bakai, Anatoly Burgomistrenko, Sergey Gaiduk

Тайное оружие России в Черном море - гидроакустические системы, которые шпионят за нами - Defense Express : Тайное оружие России на Черном море: Гидроакустические системы, которые шпионят за нами - новости ZIKUA.TV
They can't deploy this outside of their EEZ, it will be restricted by environmental conditions of Black sea which is the slope, is too strong.
It is not that practical to use long range interception at the Black sea, they can control %15-25 at most. :)
 

Saithan

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They can't deploy this outside of their EEZ, it will be restricted by environmental conditions of Black sea which is the slope, is too strong.
It is not that practical to use long range interception at the Black sea, they can control %15-25 at most. :)
I would say they can unless of course we are doing the surveillance of our own EEZ. I've already posted a few times with reference to "Battleship" movie and pictures etc. about Sonar buoys with smart systems.

I believe such systems are very important and vital creating a web of sonar and surveillance systems based on buoys on open sea. with possible seabed systems too :)

Chinese fisherman (militia) are used extensively to fish US mini subs etc. etc.

Another example.



So i think it's important to invest in this and start deploying smart buoys. They can/could also be used for environmental purpose.
 

Anmdt

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I would say they can unless of course we are doing the surveillance of our own EEZ. I've already posted a few times with reference to "Battleship" movie and pictures etc. about Sonar buoys with smart systems.

I believe such systems are very important and vital creating a web of sonar and surveillance systems based on buoys on open sea. with possible seabed systems too :)

Chinese fisherman (militia) are used extensively to fish US mini subs etc. etc.

Another example.



So i think it's important to invest in this and start deploying smart buoys. They can/could also be used for environmental purpose.
Just to say, to many people those systems look easy. And yes pretty easy for scientific and civilian uses but when military use involves it requires some complex knowledge and know-how on processing data, target identification and assessing collected data.
US has engaged a target barely using passive sensors network.

Aselsan and others have been working on such passive networks, a few things have already been leaked on internet via official reports, while some other still not.
 
T

Turko

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1624016152751.png


In my humble opinion, russian Autonomous submarine detection system seems efficient.
1624015840556.png

Amga
Autonomous submarine detection system with unified sonobuoy communication channel
Mission
The Amga autonomous submarine detection system with unified sonobuoy communication channel is a system of anchored, self-contained passive sonar stations with ground/ship-based receiver designed to detect submarines in naval base and other littoral areas, as well as in the reconnoitered directions of their cruise.

1624016102834.png

Features
  • automatically search and detect undersea objects by their sonar fields;
  • automatically tracking and classifying undersea targets, with the computation of their parameters;
  • target data transmitting to the shore-based or shipborne control post.
Capabilities
The system is autonomous and cable options, set at anchor in the depths from 300 m up to 1,500 m.
Set of 8 sonobuoys allows to control line length to 40 km, from 20 sonobuoys – 100 km. Radio communication range of sonobuoys - up to 60 km. Remove the cable from the shore modification (control post) can reach 40 km.
For stand-alone version provides remote control by sonar communication channel. Communication range - up to 10 km (available from any ship equipped a sonar communication unit).
Continuous service cable option items - up to 20 years. Self-contained sonobuoy require recharging the battery within 6 months of continuous operation.
System install with any vessel equipped with mine tracks. Cable version of system install by cable-maintenance vessel.

IMG_20210618_142946.jpg

At the International Maritime Defense Show IMDS-2015 in St. Petersburg, ZAO Aquamarine showed an autonomous submarine detection system AMGA-ME.
Purpose: Automatic detection, determination of coordinates and movement parameters of submarines (and surface ships in the AGAS-1 modification). Two modifications of the system are offered:
• modification of AGAS
• modification of AGAS-1

MODIFICATION OF AGAS
Modification with autonomous hydroacoustic stations with radio data transmission channel (AGAS)
Automatic detection, determination of coordinates and parameters of movement of submarines
The length of the border is up to 80 km (20 AGAS).

Top container:
- cylindrical antenna (passive)
- equipment for signal processing and control of operating modes
- magnetic compass
Dimensions: Ø 650 x 2272 mm, weight - 387 kg
Lower container - storage battery
Service life - in operating mode 6 months.
Dimensions: Ø 980 x 723 mm, weight - 380 kg
Beacon
Pops up when a submarine is detected to transmit information over the radio channel to a ship or coastal observation post
Radio communication range up to 69 km

1624016257159.png



Modification with AGAS, connected by cable with the receiving and processing onshore post
Creation of hydroacoustic boundaries of automatic detection and
determining the coordinates and parameters of the movement of submarines and
surface ships.

Border length - up to 30 km (8 AGAS)
Communication with the coastal post and power supply - by cable.
Removal of the border from the post - up to 40 km
Container:
- cylindrical antenna (passive);
- signal processing device, FOCL modem, operating mode control equipment;
- magnetic compass
Size: Ø 650 x 2744 mm, weight - 420 kg


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T

Turko

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CRACUNS

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(corrosion resistant aerial covert unmanned nautical system) developed by a team at the Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory in Laurel, Maryland.

CRACUNS are not solar powered, but can go under the surface of the water and then fly into the air.

Both drones can carry a variety of sensors making them useful for monitoring ocean temperature or acidity, or for tracking marine animals, Jones said.



Navy’s Aqua-Quad Drone Is a Solar-Powered Sub-Hunter​

An ocean-drifting drone that can fly and trail sonar arrays to track Flipper or Red October.​


1624019047151.png


It floats on the surface most of the time, the prototype can fly for about 25 minutes when necessary, and would tow sensors that sound out underwater objects like submarines or marine life. This mission would make it a replacement for sonobuoys, which are “dumb,” expendable surface drifters usually dropped from airplanes. The drawbacks of sonobuoys are short battery life and drifting out of the target search area. Junking up the oceans doesn’t help, either. The Aqua-Quad could last for three months on its own, then return home on command or be retrieved.
1624019127561.png
 
T

Turko

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Dont be hursh, i'm ready to confront reactions:))

Okay here comes the new idea: using Bozdogan missiles on old frigates as additional short range air defence system.

System consist of traditional horizantal launcher loaded with IIR guided Bozdogan Missiles and uses MAR-D radar.

what is the advantages of using MAR-D on old Frigates?
MAR-D radar is AESA radar so it strongly resist Electronic Attacks
MAR-D being AESA can deliberately search and find cruise missiles ideal for point defense
MAR-D is made by ASELSAN so we can adopt easily all Turkish Missiles


Okay why Bozdogan missile?

As we all know, There are very popular , smart Air Defense Systems which use Air-toAir misssiles as SAM such as Spyder, NASAMS, US AMRAAM ER, PL9c Shorad, old Chapperel etc. Currently Israel Spyder SAM achieved big export succes moreover It is combat proven. Georgian Spyder systems hit several russian fighter.

Using A2A missiles both as SAM and as A2A missile bring huge logistic advantages.

I'm 100% sure soon we will see Turkish variant of SPYDER so soon Bozdogan will be mass produced missile.

Why do old frigates need secondary air defence system?

first we have to admit our all our navy based on old 8 Gabya and 8 Barbaros frigates.

In my humble opinion those frigates like naked, all are open sea skimming cruise missile threats.
Looking at all 16 frigates , we could just sea old gen passive radars, semi-active guided old missiles which are very vulnerable against cruise missiles, EW.
AESA radar , Imaging IR missiles combination is the perfect solution against cruise missiles, UAVs as well as against fighters.
Bozdogan SAM will have 20 km range and will engage targets at 9km which is great numbers. Comparing old gen ESSMs which ourfrigates have missile with IIR guidance will bring real defence capabilities.


Why on the earth horizontal launcher are preferred?

Remember RIM-116 RAM best point defense system is launched from horizontal launcher. Thus your missiles follow direct fly path.
ALso Vertical launchers are expensive , we cant desing VLSs for every missile. with simple engineering effort we could create simple horizontal launcher which could be used for ground launcher. Remember soon we will need launchers for Turkish Spyder systems.

Nonetheles those radars, missiles , launcher can be removed and used on groun applications if old frigates die.

First
Modernized Barbaros with additonal 12 Bozdogan missiles.
at the back of the ship right and left positioned 2 NASAMS style launcher would cover almost every cornerof ship.
Barbaros-Sinifi-Modernize-4-1536x856.png


meko mod.png



Second Barbaros variant is old gen with Gokdeniz, additional 8 missiles and MAR-D

Some people might think :the ships dont need big construction work, Their current maritime capability is enough "

8631869484_75c9b4aee4_b.png
 

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Extra capability is always welcome but there is a cut-off. There is only so much you can put on limited space. The ESSM+SMART-S and in the future Cenk/Cafrad+Hisar/G40/Siper are more than capable to defend against all the adversaries in Turkey's region today and in the future. The Barbaros upgrade is as good as it gets, with probably the SMART-S being replaced by Cenk. So in short, no.

But perhaps the Burak class can get these upgrades if TN wants to use them till 2030/35.
 
T

Turko

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Extra capability is always welcome but there is a cut-off. There is only so much you can put on limited space. The ESSM+SMART-S and in the future Cenk/Cafrad+Hisar/G40/Siper are more than capable to defend against all the adversaries in Turkey's region today and in the future. The Barbaros upgrade is as good as it gets, with probably the SMART-S being replaced by Cenk. So in short, no.

But perhaps the Burak class can get these upgrades if TN wants to use them till 2030/35.
I offered very fast modernization and less construction work comparing with SSM's Barbaros modernization project.
Nonetheless they haven't started any modernization.
1624651023589.png

Barbaros Classes already have Smart-S radars, Either ESSMs which we use aren't good at against cruise missiles since they are semi-active guided connected PESA radar.

1624651112838.png



As i said our frigates lack of point defence.

Obviously Cenk-S, G40, Hisar would be great.but they will be used in future frigates. İ investigated capabilities of our current frigates at hand.
Until TN gets new high end frigates , we have to use those 8 Barbaros and 8 Gabya. How long will it take that TN has 16 modern frigates?

I don't offer spending money the new crazy systems which can't be removed. IMO Barbaros and gabyas would have great SHORAD and ECCM capabilities with MAR-D and IIR guided Bozdoğans.

In addition Barbaros have enough space to add NASAMS launchers. Look at SSMs upgrade.
 
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Philips

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I offered very fast modernization and less construction work comparing with SSM's Barbaros modernization project.
The Bozdogan isn't even finished development and testing and you want to put it on launchers for naval use in a couple years time on frigates that will be replaced this decade?

I don't think TN will use export Smart -S radar .
They've been using it since 2007 and a replacement is near completion. The SMART-S is a very successful product, even Aselsan is producing it under licence.

Either ESSMs which we use aren't good at against cruise missiles since they are semi-active guided connected PESA radar.
:ROFLMAO:
Please notify TN command that they've no interception capability against cruise missiles and the ESSM is shit.

As i said our frigates lack of point defence.
That is what ESSM is for.

Obviously Cenk-S, G40, Hisar would be great.but they will be used in future frigates. İ investigated capabilities of our current frigates at hand.
Until TN gets new high end frigates , we have to use those 8 Barbaros and 8 Gabya. How long will it take that TN has 16 modern frigates?
4 Yavuz class replaced starting in 2023. 4 Barbaros class modernized by 2025. 4 non-modernized Gabya replaced by TF-2000 from 2027. 4 modernized Gabya replaced from 2030 on.

IMO Barbaros and gabyas would have great SHORAD capabilities with MAR-D and IIR guided Bozdoğans.
Barbaros already has with ESSM. 4 modernized Gabya's already have with ESSM. Perhaps 4 non-Modernized Gabya's can be upgraded with your proposal, but don't count on it.

In addition Barbaros have enough space to add NASAMS launchers. Look at SSMs upgrade.
What is able on fotoshop doesn't mean it is IRL.
 
T

Turko

Guest
The Bozdogan isn't even finished development and testing and you want to put it on launchers for naval use in a couple years time on frigates that will be replaced this decade?


They've been using it since 2007 and a replacement is near completion. The SMART-S is a very successful product, even Aselsan is producing it under licence.


:ROFLMAO:
Please notify TN command that they've no interception capability against cruise missiles and the ESSM is shit.


That is what ESSM is for.


4 Yavuz class replaced starting in 2023. 4 Barbaros class modernized by 2025. 4 non-modernized Gabya replaced by TF-2000 from 2027. 4 modernized Gabya replaced from 2030 on.


Barbaros already has with ESSM. 4 modernized Gabya's already have with ESSM. Perhaps 4 non-Modernized Gabya's can be upgraded with your proposal, but don't count on it.


What is able on fotoshop doesn't mean it is IRL.
You said just what you could have said.

You turn out smart because i photoshopped .




I knew Barbaros Classes had Smart-S radar , i just misunderstood . already edited.

Regarding ESSM , you had better ask first why the producer replaces it with block 2 ?
Second you should ask to US Navy why on earth they use RIM-116 , Phalanx? Why Germans created Millennium? Why will Taiwan Navy use Sea Oryx, why the Chinese have FD3000etc.

Now hundred times read and scrutinize my post.
You haven't said nothing new which i didn't know.

You are ignored:)
 

Philips

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You said just what you could have said.

You turn out smart because i photoshopped .
What?

I knew Barbaros Classes had Smart-S radar , i just misunderstood . already edited.
Okay... Whatever..

Regarding ESSM , you had better ask first why the producer replaces it with block 2 ?
Why not. Military products don't stand still but keep on developing. Doesn't mean the previous version is suddenly unusable or has always been obsolete.

Second you should ask to US Navy why on earth they use RIM-116 , Phalanx? Why Germans created Millennium? Why will Taiwan Navy use Sea Oryx, why the Chinese have FD3000etc.
This is a false equivalence. Tubitak-Sage stated that the Bozdogan can be used for a RAM like system. That is not the same as your adhoc Chapparel/Spyder like system.

Now hundred times read and scrutinize my post.
You haven't said nothing new which i didn't know.
Okay... Whatever...

Dont be hursh, i'm ready to confront reactions:))
+
You are ignored:)
You've just owned yourself.
 
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T

Turko

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@Anmdt As a naval engineer your comments are precious for me. what would you say?:)
gabya6.png



Also 6 cell NASAMS launchers can be used so it will bring additional 24 IIR missiles.
So under Electronic attack when your ESSMs semi-active radar seekers fail, IIR guided Bozdogans will able to engage.

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T

Turko

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I've found great CIWS platform. Especially modular missile tube is great idea. Gökdeniz sided 6 Turkish variant of FL-3000N would be smart solution.
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Pantsir M is great example for using tube launchers however the missiles were failed under EW due to it didn't have any seeker just relayed on two way datalink.
IIR guidance vital for point defence. Under electronic attack your AESA radar could detect a target but heavy jamming wouldnt allow transfer data to missile and from missile since missiles have very limited little sensors.
 
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Anmdt

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I've found great CIWS platform. Especially modular missile tube is great idea. Gökdeniz sided 6 Turkish variant of FL-3000N would be smart solution.
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I think we better not increase size of the Gökdeniz further while guys trying to shrink it further.
Instead, we definitely need a RAM-like launcher with a moving frame for boats, very short VLS for gökdoğan-bozdoğan for certain applications.
Do we really need a launcher like chapparal? I am not really sure. But i would really like getting RAM like CIWS on Barbaros MLU in place of the front CIWS.
And Barbaros MLU is quite effective i think, if ESSM is in trouble we can just introduce MIDLAS to those as well.
From this point on we shouldn't spend time with interim products, should focus developing, sending out in field and getting feed back to mature those for TF-2000 or TF-100.
 
T

Turko

Guest
I think we better not increase size of the Gökdeniz further while guys trying to shrink it further.
Instead, we definitely need a RAM-like launcher with a moving frame for boats, very short VLS for gökdoğan-bozdoğan for certain applications.
Do we really need a launcher like chapparal? I am not really sure. But i would really like getting RAM like CIWS on Barbaros MLU in place of the front CIWS.
And Barbaros MLU is quite effective i think, if ESSM is in trouble we can just introduce MIDLAS to those as well.
From this point on we shouldn't spend time with interim products, should focus developing, sending out in field and getting feed back to mature those for TF-2000 or TF-100.
I've noticed that you prefer RAM rather than gun based CIWS. you must know some disadvantages of naval CIWS.
 

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