TR Navy Naval Programs

[cr33pt3d]

damn we really printing ships ! amazing news .

 

[Sanchez]

Izmit is aslo lunched , how u bring this few month thing when it was ready painted , U can say at least few weeks but months !!

I was saying few months to say on the safe side, but was expecting it within a month or so, definitely not back to back. What a day.

 

[what]

I dont like the fact that a lot of our shipyards are located in and around Istanbul.

In case of war we should have backups somewhere safer, i.e. Antalya and Hatay. What do you think, Mr. Navy aka @Anmdt?

 

[TR_123456]

I dont like the fact that a lot of our shipyards are located in and around Istanbul.

In case of war we should have backups somewhere safer, i.e. Antalya and Hatay. What do you think, Mr. Navy aka @Anmdt?

Why not on all coasts,Black Sea,Marmara,Mediterranean and Aegean?

 

[Yasar_TR]

Why not on all coasts,Black Sea,Marmara,Mediterranean and Aegean?

I dont like the fact that a lot of our shipyards are located in and around Istanbul.

In case of war we should have backups somewhere safer, i.e. Antalya and Hatay. What do you think, Mr. Navy aka @Anmdt?

İt must be to do with logistics and ease of finding trained staff and being close to the eco system of the related industry.

Whence the eco system of shipbuilding becomes countrywide and the relaying of parts and finding trained personnel due to longer distances stops being a hindrance, then it would be viable to have ship building sites positioned in any corner of the country.

There is a very large project on paper that involves the maintenance of large tankers and mega ships in Bay of Iskenderun. If this project ever takes off the ground, it can propel investment of ship building in the area too. That can kick start a trend to spread the shipbuilding industry to a wider area.

 

[dBSPL]

Before this sector was industrialized on this scale, all that was a family craft. So there is a long shipbuilding tradition in a few regions too. However, these regions did not have the conditions to develop industrially. Because the Tuzla-based structuring is essentially a sectoral power union. Although some of the Tuzla shipyards have experienced a change of shareholders over time, the majority are from Trabzon and Rize; some of these families arrived in Istanbul in the late 40s and 50s around Haliç, and some of their first business partners in Istanbul were non-muslims. Everyone already knows the history of the Tuzla shipyards area and the sub-industry around it, which has a model that has very few examples in the world in terms of structure, but most of the shipyards gathered here, were not shipyards in the sense we understand today, but family businesses consisting of just a smal slipway or a pier. But this starting point determined the model on which the industry of the Tuzla district would develop. Altınova is the extension of this to the other side of the gulf with successful planning in the 2000s.

It is very difficult to decentralize this centrality in the established industrial model. Because when you move out of the region, logistics costs will increase, your cost of access to subcontractors(most important factor) will increase, your cost of access to dozens of items of equipment, installations, machinery and related engineering will increase. I think there are two ways to overcome this, the first is to create new Tuzla's. Gathering local boatyards together again at different locations. But in order for this to be done by the private sector, there should be an incentive program to move the maintenance and repair works in Tuzla to these regions, or better yet, a national coaster program should be established, like MILGEM. You would not want to know the status of small shipowners' fleets and our average fleet life. A significant part of the existing vessels are still river vessels that are being lengthened in Tuzla. A national coaster program (both bulk and tankers) is a necessity for our maritime industry and it can be instrumentalized for industrial transformation. We should also have a national offshore fisheries policy based on the blue homeland doctrine. Offshore fisheries should be developed and promoted.

Or there should be investments that departmentalize most of these services within huge compounds, not like the shipyard parcels we see in Tuzal. In other words, there should be mega investments with big capitals. The disadvantage of this is that, excluding the 10 or so shipyards that are involved in military projects, our market share is maintenance-heavy and the new ship orders in the order books are in a specific range. Rather than large tonnage vessels such as those in Asia, there is a trend towards clean energy inland sea vessel types predominantly from Europe. In order to reach the steel processing capacity to sustain those investments, either we have to dominate the market or we have to concentrate on large vessels like east Asia.



edit:

Also need to add this: Today, behind our almost reaching a military production capacity equivalent to the total of the European continent, there is the naval force command that perfectly instrumentalizes the shipbuilding structure formed in Tuzla. Particularly, the Pendik Command was always in contact within not just shipbuilders almost all of related sectors around it. In other words, what was seen as a disadvantage has to some extent created the unique breakthrough model of Turkish shipbuilding. When we wrote first that this would be the case, that is, when we compared our potential scale to the entire European continent, no one could not see a trace of this on social media. It took the orderbook of 31 piece navy vessels for the token to drop for the defense social media outside the forum. Naval ship orders are a very profitable business for shipyards. For this reason, shipyards are becoming stronger not only in terms of technical capacity but also financially by entering this circle. In large tonnage ships, competition with Asia is very difficult. However, the successful planning of the navy and our position as the technology-intensive production center of Europe will open up great opportunities for usin near future.

 

[Anmdt]

I dont like the fact that a lot of our shipyards are located in and around Istanbul.

In case of war we should have backups somewhere safer, i.e. Antalya and Hatay. What do you think, Mr. Navy aka @Anmdt?

This has been spoken by higher ups 10 years ago, there has been attempts of removing or transferring some of the shipyards to a location on the Black Sea coast. For the military this was the reason of trying to elavate Alaybey Shipyard in Izmir as a back up to Pendik Shipyard.

Both Golcuk and Pendik Shipyards do need a backup, not the submarine construction only but Golcuk Shipyard also carries out modernizations and overhauls of combatants.

That's how Izmit Gulf shipyards has risen as well, but still in close proximity to the threats (environmental included).

Thinking through 60 years ago's logic, location of current major naval shipyards are well protected but the threats have not remained the same, so we need a change soon. They have been organizing a back up scheme for major naval shipyards at least to maintain fleet independently of a single shipyard.

As per the commercial shipyards it remains more complex, we have yacht industry in Antalya but all of those exists with ecosystem. And it is challenging to build an infastructure, ecosystem and population from scratch.

Given the current challenges of economical situation in Istanbul, i am pretty sure most of the workers would have moved to another city ( which is somewhere quieter than Antalya ofcourse ) willingly, and i see no reason for ecosystem to move as well. This all should be organised by the state. They have attempted it before, but failed. Though the reason to attempt wasn't because they cared about shipyards strategically but the land is too precious and they have been planning to construct buildings in Pendik Naval Shipyard and Tuzla commercial shipyards district.

 

[uçuyorum]

Well there are shipbuilders around, but essentially industry, trade routes, large ports, education for naval engineering and naval officers or sailors must be aligned in one place to make it sustainable. Mersin and İzmir Alaybey are good canditates for growth and there are some plans about them anyway

 

[boredaf]

This has been spoken by higher ups 10 years ago, there has been attempts of removing or transferring some of the shipyards to a location on the Black Sea coast.

I like this idea, relocation or new shipyards on Black Sea coast, instead of Aegean or Mediterranean coasts. Of all the naval (and aerial) threats we might face, Russia within the Black Sea would be the easiest to deal with.

 

[Anmdt]

"ASFAT signed the Phase-1 design agreement for the TF-2000. Phase-1 will cover the design and production of some parts of the ship. Phase-2 will involve prototype production of the ship."

Just like i have been telling, there is a lot to be done with the design and construction of few blocks likely referring to a new attempt on outfittef megablocks. They intend to work with larger blocks than what they did with Hisar-Class. This will accelerate the steel construction at least.
They might even consider a truly modular approach in construction, allowing Aselsan to work on Mast independently in a construction hull to integrate equipment on mast. Same could go for machinery and so on.

 

[BalkanTurk90]

Many news from ASFAT today.

"One of the two HİSAR-class Offshore Patrol Vessels produced by ASFAT may be exported to a European country before entering the inventory."

Country in question maybe Romania, we've heard about a possible OPV sale to Romania for the last few months.

"Negotiations are ongoing for frigate exports to Saudi Arabia. 2 ships are planned to be produced in Turkey and 3 ships in Saudi Arabia. An Istif class based design is being proposed."
Aselsan's 2023 report mentioned a frigate sale to a Gulf country, looks to be on track.

"ASFAT signed the Phase-1 design agreement for the TF-2000. Phase-1 will cover the design and production of some parts of the ship. Phase-2 will involve prototype production of the ship."

"Within the scope of the "National Submarine" MİLDEN Project, ASFAT was assigned by the Ministry of National Defense to carry out all coordination activities between the Ministries of Defense and Naval Forces of other countries and to form the Joint Technical Working Group."

A possible joint project to be started between unnamed partner countries for Milden? Spain?

ASFAT, Avrupa ve Suudi Arabistan’a ihracat için yoğun görüşmeler yürütüyor

Türkiye’nin savunma sanayiindeki öncü şirketlerinden ASFAT, önemli ihracat ve proje adımlarıyla dikkat çekiyor.

gdh.digital

If they export those 2 hisars than i hope they are replaced with 2 I class frigates , 8 frigates are nothing for Turkiye and 10 OPV without much firepower are not ideal for Turkish navy surrounded by enemies . 6 hisars and 12 I class should be produced followed by 10 Tf 2000 destroyers
Future of main warships Turkish navy:

1) - 1AC
2)- 2 Helicopter/drone Carriers
3) - 30 submarines
4) - 20 frigates( 12 i-class , 4 Meko, 4 tf 4500)
5)- 10-12 Tf 2000 Destroyers

 

[begturan]

I like this idea, relocation or new shipyards on Black Sea coast, instead of Aegean or Mediterranean coasts. Of all the naval (and aerial) threats we might face, Russia within the Black Sea would be the easiest to deal with.

I think it makes sense to invest in the Black Sea, but we need to be careful with Russia; they have sabotaged our naval bases many times in history.

 

[dBSPL]

This 2+3 shipbuilding cooperation with the KSA has a history of at least 10 years. In fact, the MILGEM corvettes was used as the symbolic poster of the local production movement in the KSA at one of the defense industry fair there. Then relations between the two countries deteriorated (the Khashoggi incident), the US lobby pushed hard and the project somehow stalled. Even though we offered the fastest delivery schedule. It's good to see this being revived years later. The MILGEM now has a solution set ranging from 2000 tons to 8500 tons, from offshore patrol to regional air defense. So much so that all the surface needs of a navy can be solved through a common logistics infrastructure with MILGEM.

 

[Huelague]

If they export those 2 hisars than i hope they are replaced with 2 I class frigates , 8 frigates are nothing for Turkiye and 10 OPV without much firepower are not ideal for Turkish navy surrounded by enemies . 6 hisars and 12 I class should be produced followed by 10 Tf 2000 destroyers
Future of main warships Turkish navy:

1) - 1AC
2)- 2 Helicopter/drone Carriers
3) - 30 submarines
4) - 20 frigates( 12 i-class , 4 Meko, 4 tf 4500)
5)- 10-12 Tf 2000 Destroyers

With all the additional naval systems, we will increase the personnel significantly. Particularly our future Marine Corps. What is the personal planning in number?

 

[BalkanTurk90]

With all the additional naval systems, we will increase the personnel significantly. Particularly our future Marine Corps. What is the personal planning in number?

We are building another 8 LCT for Afmibi tugay , perhaps another 2 Bayraktar Lst will be good .
I hope navy order light tank for them lile kaplan tank and lots of ZaHAs (~200) aslo double their size to 10k .
We should take our islands back

 

[Huelague]

We are building another 8 LCT for Afmibi tugay , perhaps another 2 Bayraktar Lst will be good .
I hope navy order light tank for them lile kaplan tank and lots of ZaHAs (~200) aslo double their size to 10k .
We should take our islands back

I mean the future number of Amfibi tugay.

 

[Sanchez]

We are building another 8 LCT for Afmibi tugay

Older LCTs will be retired.

 

[dBSPL]

I mean the future number of Amfibi tugay.

I think this growth (which was something we have been waiting for years) is one of the signs that we will see amphibious armored combat teams in the near future. I mean Naval Forces may have MBTs and heavy IFVs in their own inventory, not just allocated from the Aegean Army. This would also be in line with the overseas basing policies of the Navy.

I wish this could develop further in the future and become a force command as an amphibious/expeditionary warfare force that would include air and sea vehicles, adopting the concept of the US Armed Forces.

 

[Sanchez]

I had already changed the DefenceTurk twit to GDH link after it was removed, now that too. Could only mean a sale is very close and they don't want anyone to jump at it without their confirmation

Yuup.

"Prof. Dr. Haluk Görgün, President of the SSB: We have customers waiting for our warships that have already been built. These can be realized as long as our navy allows."

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1879135394664718787

 

[Yasar_TR]

Yuup.

"Prof. Dr. Haluk Görgün, President of the SSB: We have customers waiting for our warships that have already been built. These can be realized as long as our navy allows."

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1879135394664718787

Can you remember the saying :

If you build it they will come.

This reminds me of it. I guess the times are such that everyone is trying to grab a piece of a modern and high quality defence equipment as soon as they can. That means it is a sellers market.