TR Navy Naval Programs

[BalkanTurk90]

I believe we need I-classes especially for blacksea and nearby seas for patrol and protection duties mainly and for escort duties, yet i can't seem to understand strike length VLS for gezgin and siper-2ER.

We need a mid-size frigate, yet also we are quite reluctant to develop one. Too much eggs the basket, the aircraft carrier is definitely not today's business.

The VLS of first TCG İstanbul can fire Siper 1 or siper 2 ?

 

[BalkanTurk90]

I was saying Türkiye's shipbuilding capacity has to expand and good karma, 6 months on hitting 71 simultaneous builds already.

İt depends what u count as shipbulding but main warships are just 12 - 15 under constcrution others are landing ships , costat guard boats etc
We are behind Japan , S korea in shipbulding ,They can build massive destroyers and faster , We are in pair of italy i can say .
China , russia , USA are another level since they can build massive SLBM submarines & aircraft carriers

 

[dBSPL]

İt depends what u count as shipbulding but main warships are just 12 - 15 under constcrution others are landing ships , costat guard boats etc
We are behind Japan , S korea in shipbulding ,They can build massive destroyers and faster , We are in pair of italy i can say .
China , russia , USA are another level since they can build massive SLBM submarines & aircraft carriers

In Türkiye, warships and submarines are produced using an advanced modular/block construction method; technically, different blocks can be produced simultaneously in different private and military shipyards and then assembled at the main shipyard.

This block construction model enables private shipyards to adapt rapidly to combat ship programs. Looking at it from this perspective, the fact that the Milgem program (esp. the Istif-class frigate construction activities) has largely been transferred to private shipyards will create a great capacity leverage in the coming years. A shipyard producing frigate blocks in Yalova today will naturally be capable of producing destroyer blocks in 10 years.

Whether this was a planned strategy from the beginning or an organic evolution, the infrastructure necessary to reach a massive regional production capacity has begun to form. In my humble opinion, Turkish shipyards can become major naval hubs for friendly and allied countries in the near future. We're already starting to be associated with this position.

However, this expansion has critical secondary and tertiary dimensions. On the construction side, subsystem development, local component production, and supply chain volumes must grow in parallel. Furthermore, as the navy expands, ensuring a significant increase in qualified naval personnel and engineers is a monumental task. We need comprehensive national programs that will foster maritime consciousness and guide young minds into this.

 

[Sanchez]

In Türkiye, warships and submarines are produced using an advanced modular/block construction method

Who doesn't? Isn't it basically industry standard?

 

[Huelague]

The number and size/class of ships we need, is depend on the current and future needs and mission. It looks like Türkiye wants to play big. Which requires a big Naval force. A very simple math.
@Yasar_TR said, we do not have that money for such ships. Maybe he is right, but it doesn’t mean that we do not need these ships, because we can not afford these ships. But who knows, if we can get enough customers for our ships, we will be able to afford these ships.

 

[Zafer]

İt depends what u count as shipbulding but main warships are just 12 - 15 under constcrution others are landing ships , costat guard boats etc
We are behind Japan , S korea in shipbulding ,They can build massive destroyers and faster , We are in pair of italy i can say .
China , russia , USA are another level since they can build massive SLBM submarines & aircraft carriers

I don't know about type numbers but there is talk that we are next to China now in the current number of navy ships being built. It is a known fact that SK and Japan have bigger shipbuilding capacity I wouldn't argue otherwise and actually I mentioned this in my February 7 post as SK is in for building ships in the US, 20 per year. Shipyard personnel are well paid I am sure there is no supply of people wanting to work in shipyards. Supply chain bottlenecks aside we can possibly have more money to invest in shipbuilding considering the Mecca Pact being in place already. Once Tepe class is go full steam building tonnage totals will be much more than today too. So I am hopeful further expansion will come as we put out our new requirements and complete building our new class first ships.

Full steam ahead!

 

[Anmdt]

The VLS of first TCG İstanbul can fire Siper 1 or siper 2 ?

Yes, it is the strike length version ~8 meters.

 

[Anmdt]

Who doesn't? Isn't it basically industry standard?

There are tiers of block construction, dictated by block size, and block equipment. If we put 5 tiers to it, we are at 3 and attempting for 4.
The tier 1 is also called as block construction yet it is primitive.

 

[UkroTurk]

yet i can't seem to understand strike length VLS for gezgin and siper-2ER.

What about future ASW missiles?

On the other hand The Bigger is the better Incase of operationol changes would be useful.

 

[Zafer]

Türkiye is making the MUGEM, it will have a take off ramp and not a catapult with modularity to enable upgrading to a catapult down the road. Meanwhile President Trump orders the military to use the old school steam catapults for new carrier builds instead of the EMALS system that is installed on their latest carrier USS Gerald R. Ford. So Houston there is a problem with the EMALS system. On the flip side of the world China has made its own electric catapult and we have no idea how effective it is. Chinese EMALS is supposed to be treating smaller planes like drones better as it can adjust acceleration per the launched aircraft.

When comes the time to upgrade the MUGEM to a catapult what will our options be? Below are some options to explore.

• Turkish EMALS capable of launching both smaller drones and large fighters
• Gas to propel the hook system
  • Steam; using some heat source to generate the steam (most suitable with nuclear reactor as it has excess heat)
  • Heated combustion gas system (running underground inside a tube and rails)
    • Gas generated by a rocket engine
    • Gas generated by a jet engine
    • Gas generated by an explosive charge
• Cable
  • Operated by electric motors (using stored energy in batteries and capacitors + mains)
  • By Dropping an elevated mass to gravity

Cycle times is a main factor in effectiveness for sortie generation, nuclear steam has 45 seconds interval

 

[boredaf]

Meanwhile President Trump orders the military to use the old school steam catapults for new carrier builds instead of the EMALS system that is installed on their latest carrier USS Gerald R. Ford. So Houston there is a problem with the EMALS system.

No, there isn't, Trump is just a senile old idiot who has no idea what he is talking about. One of the "reasons" he gave for not wanting emals is because the moron thinks magnets stop working when they get wet.

 

[Pokemonte13]

No, there isn't, Trump is just a senile old idiot who has no idea what he is talking about. One of the "reasons" he gave for not wanting emals is because the moron thinks magnets stop working when they get wet.

An idiot with major executive power

 

[Pokemonte13]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/2092986888336421185

 

[zio]

80m/7 meter is not good,it makes more fragile for shock waves,it should be 80/10,in others words around 8 equvelant is the best.

 

[Yasar_TR]

80m/7 meter is not good,it makes more fragile for shock waves,it should be 80/10,in others words around 8 equvelant is the best.

We don’t really have all the details of the MILDEN in our hands.
If you look at the Spanish S-80+ submarine details, it is not far from ours on the surface of it.
7.3m diameter, 80.80m length.
Yet when you look at the exact dimensions there is more to it than being just a long tube.
Check out the front view and the dimensions.

Infografía: S-80, submarinos españoles de nueva generación

Infografía: S-80, submarinos españoles de nueva generación

vadebarcos.net

Yet in earlier small mock ups they look very different.

Here is a couple of Milden mock ups

 

[Fatman17]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/2092651581388784105

 

[Anmdt]

80m/7 meter is not good,it makes more fragile for shock waves,it should be 80/10,in others words around 8 equvelant is the best.

It doesn't actually matter.

 

[Anmdt]

We don’t really have all the details of the MILDEN in our hands.
If you look at the Spanish S-80+ submarine details, it is not far from ours on the surface of it.
7.3m diameter, 80.80m length.
Yet when you look at the exact dimensions there is more to it than being just a long tube.
Check out the front view and the dimensions.
View attachment 82668

Infografía: S-80, submarinos españoles de nueva generación

Infografía: S-80, submarinos españoles de nueva generación

vadebarcos.net

View attachment 82669
Yet in earlier small mock ups they look very different.

View attachment 82670
Here is a couple of Milden mock ups

View attachment 82671
View attachment 82672

Lengt to diameter ratio of a submarine is not quite an important indicator on structural integrity or any features related to that. The maximum diameter is usually dictated by either the collapse depth of the hull or construction tolerances where these are also relating to each other.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Lengt to diameter ratio of a submarine is not quite an important indicator on structural integrity or any features related to that. The maximum diameter is usually dictated by either the collapse depth of the hull or construction tolerances where these are also relating to each other.

Bro, I concur with your statement regarding the MILDEN. Hull length to diameter ratio of 7:1 to 8:1 is there as a guideline. Most nuclear subs push past 10:1. It is a matter of design and construction capability.

There is however some merit in the apprehension of @zio ’s post. But not as drastic as he puts it.

Logically, it is a fact that short, wide cylinders resist hydrostatic pressure better than long, thin ones.
Shorter frame distributes overall load more efficiently, reducing required steel thickness. Also a minimal surface area relative to internal volume reduces the overall structural steel weight.
Hence shorter hulls experience less stress from uneven wave action when operating near the surface.
Long hulls can be highly prone to buckling under deep-sea diving pressures. Long cylinders, therefore may require massive, closely spaced internal transverse stiffeners to prevent collapse during wave action and tight manoeuvres that could cause longitudinal bending, therefore straining structural welds.
Thus in the end, hydrodynamic performance and structural integrity is a compromise of both. So when building submarines designers would take all the above in to consideration.

if you look at the Virginia class SSN ; 140metres long with a hull diameter of 10.3 metres may look like it is pushing past the limits. But the construction designers will have taken in to account all the above and more. That is why after 25 or more already built they are still building them.

Ohio Class SSBN are 170m long with a hull diameter of 13metres.

Aukus subs are 130m long with a hull diameter of 12.8 metres.

So your last sentence of ; The maximum diameter is usually dictated by either the collapse depth of the hull or construction tolerances where these are also relating to each other is very apt.