Poland Poland Signs for Abrams tanks for $4,7 bn

BordoEnes

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They are getting it and there are muliple problems both with our and german side. It is pain in the ass so no more Leopards for Poland. Maybe we will be able to sell our when we get M1 and K2.
Ah the Germans just being Germans I suppose. Make me at least feel a bit better that their embargo's and backstabbing is somewhat indiscriminate, because we have been dealing with them for decades now. If its not the engines, its something else. Hidden sanctions and embargo's is a staple German tactic. It also pretty much answers my question why the Polish are not going for Leopard2A7's instead of K2 or Abrams. That being said Poland has made great stride within their own domestic defence industry. are there no plans for a indigenous tank? If I remember correctly you already made a concept such as PL-01.
 

Jagdflieger

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Strange assortment of a MBT force.
Abrams, K2's, Challenger and Leo 2A6/A7 are on their agenda. Which NATO country presently or in future would field 4 different MBT's?
 

TR_123456

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Strange assortment of a MBT force.
Abrams, K2's, Challenger and Leo 2A6/A7 are on their agenda. Which NATO country presently or in future would field 4 different MBT's?
M60(US),Sabra(Israel),Leopard 1&2(Germany),Altay(Türkiye).
My country Türkiye,at least for 8 to 10 years until the first batch of 250 Altay's is operational.
 

Jagdflieger

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M60(US),Sabra(Israel),Leopard 1&2(Germany),Altay(Türkiye).
My country Türkiye,at least for 8 to 10 years until the first batch of 250 Altay's is operational.
Yes - I know thanks. But that is a naturally grown assorted mix. Not one ordered right now to set up a new MBT force. Which was my point.
 

MaciekRS

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Strange assortment of a MBT force.
Abrams, K2's, Challenger and Leo 2A6/A7 are on their agenda. Which NATO country presently or in future would field 4 different MBT's?
Why Challengers? British troops has them temporarily on our territory but we are not training on them and have no plans of buying them.
I think Ukrainians will get them eventually.
Leos have no future, we cant count on Germans so we will have Abrams and K2. If war comes we can propably get some Abrams from US or produce K2 (K2PL will be produced in Poland)
 

Jagdflieger

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Why Challengers? British troops has them temporarily on our territory but we are not training on them and have no plans of buying them.
I think Ukrainians will get them eventually.
Leos have no future, we cant count on Germans so we will have Abrams and K2. If war comes we can propably get some Abrams from US or produce K2 (K2PL will be produced in Poland)
The last information I got regarding the NATO ring exchange (3 days ago) was that Poland had complained about the British not handing over the Challenger tanks to the Polish Armed Forces and that no finalizing agreement with Germany had been reached in regards to compensating the 230T-72's with Leo II A6/7 and Challenger tanks.

Both tanks, the Leo and Challenger are not meant for Ukraine but to replenish Polish Army tanks.
 

MaciekRS

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Nope, we are not getting Challengers and we have no plan for it.
WHAT LEOS? We are not getting any new Leos for the tanks that went to Ukraine. Germans has no tanks, They can produce it SOMEDAY. Leo deal is over and done. Czech and Hungary bought A7, but they will get it someday in long long future .
 

Jagdflieger

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Nope, we are not getting Challengers and we have no plan for it.
WHAT LEOS? We are not getting any new Leos for the tanks that went to Ukraine. Germans has no tanks, They can produce it SOMEDAY. Leo deal is over and done. Czech and Hungary bought A7, but they will get it someday in long long future .

And article from yesterday

Seems to be a lot of confusion in Poland
 

MaciekRS

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Fake news.
Yes, there was discussion about Leo for T72 but that was just talk to show that Germans wont do that. No one believe in that and it was not serious. Only real talks right now are with Korea. If we will buy K2, Norway will propably buy about 100 K2 too.

"As a result of internal agreements within NATO, countries from the Central and Eastern Europe region such as Poland and Czechia have provided Ukraine with post-Soviet tanks. Germany was to compensate these nations by providing them Leopard tanks. While Czechia has agreed to receive an older version of the Leopards, Poland, which has sent over 200 of its tanks to Ukraine, has not reached such an agreement with Germany"
 
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MaciekRS

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The last information I got regarding the NATO ring exchange (3 days ago) was that Poland had complained about the British not handing over the Challenger tanks to the Polish Armed Forces and that no finalizing agreement with Germany had been reached in regards to compensating the 230T-72's with Leo II A6/7 and Challenger tanks.

Both tanks, the Leo and Challenger are not meant for Ukraine but to replenish Polish Army tanks.
It is more clear now.
No Leos, no Challengers.
To replenish Polish army tanks we will get some 300 M1A1 tanks from US LL program. So we will have 300 M1A1 and those 250 M1A2 that we sign earlier.
If we sign K2 deal with Korea, K2PL will replace our Leos that we already have.
And that deal should be signed this week on Eurasatory 22
 
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MaciekRS

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We want approx 1000 tanks.
So for now we will have around 200 Leos, around 500 Abrams. With over 500 deal K2 they will replace our Leos in 2030s
 

MaciekRS

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These are used M1A1 FEP version tanks after Marines, they are to replace T72 tanks that went to Ukraine.
The real deal is that we are cleared now to buy HUGE amount of tank ammo
  • 60.000 M829A4 APFSDS-T
  • 2.000 M829A3 APFSDS-T
  • 50.000 M829A2 APFSDS-T
  • 10.000 M830A1 MPAT-T
  • 60.000 M908 HE-OR-T
  • 70.000 M1147 HE-AMP
 

Gary

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These are used M1A1 FEP version tanks after Marines, they are to replace T72 tanks that went to Ukraine.
The real deal is that we are cleared now to buy HUGE amount of tank ammo
  • 60.000 M829A4 APFSDS-T
  • 2.000 M829A3 APFSDS-T
  • 50.000 M829A2 APFSDS-T
  • 10.000 M830A1 MPAT-T
  • 60.000 M908 HE-OR-T
  • 70.000 M1147 HE-AMP
The M829A4 is a big deal. could really punch through all existing and coming tanks that Russia produces. Based on my observation on sturgeons forum, its more advanced and offers more penetrating power than even the DM63A1 German army shot from their long barrel L/55A.
 

MaciekRS

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And its official now
"
Defence Minister Mariusz Błaszczak signed the $1.4 billion deal at a military base in Wesola, near Warsaw. The agreement foresees the delivery of 116 M1A1 Abrams tanks with related equipment and logistics starting this year.

Attending the signing ceremony were U.S. deputy chief of mission in Poland Daniel Lawton and U.S. Brig. Gen. John Lubas, deputy commander of the 101st Airborne Division, elements of which are stationed in southeastern Poland close to the border with Ukraine.

The deal follows last year’s agreement for the acquisition of 250 upgraded M1A2 Abrams tanks that will be delivered in the 2025-2026 time frame. Poland is also awaiting delivery of American High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems and has already received Patriot missile batteries."

Tank will be after regeneration, as its said
"Of the individual tank's 6,256 major components on the tank, 5,368 are replaced new.” So, only 14% of the original vehicle remains. The remaining 888 (components) are checked to the manufacturer's original specification or replaced new. The M1A1 AIM … is a like-new, zero-kilometre, & zero-hour tank."
"
The subject of the contract concluded with the American side is the supply of 116 M1A1 Abrams tanks, which will be adapted to the requirements of the Polish Armed Forces, together with the accompanying equipment, including 12 M88A2 HERCULES recovery vehicles, 8 M1074 JOINT ASSAULT BRIDGE bridges, 6 M577 command vehicles and 26 NG SECM workshops on the HMMWV chassis, as well as a training and logistics package.


The above contract is the first stage of the project, which also includes significant numbers of modern types of live ammunition, as well as training ammunition, in accordance with the maximum scope of the contract approved by the US Congress. The above orders, including ammunition, will be implemented successively, in accordance with the needs of the Polish Armed Forces."
 
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