TR Air-Force TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[Fuzuli NL]

View attachment 65878

It's been circumcised! "Sünnet edilimiş"

 

[No Name]

Will a 6th gen version of the KAAN be something like the X-44 Manta?

all this talk about laser weapons reminded me of Eren Drone.

instead of building a laser into the fighter, why not build a cheap drone with a laser to act as a bodyguard for the fighter?

Having a laser on the fighter may compromise the fighter's stealth and use too much power from the fighter.

 

[Heartbang]

instead of building a laser into the fighter, why not build a cheap drone with a laser to act as a bodyguard for the fighter?

That's actually the general idea with the CCA program of the NGAD project.

Ran out of missiles? Strap it onto a drone and send the drone with the fighter to supplement.

No room for laser on the airframe? Strap it onto a drone and send the drone with the fighter to supplement.

Need a bigger radar? Strap it onto a drone and send the drone with the fighter to supplement.

Internal bays too small for the A2G munitions? You guessed it, strap it onto a drone and send the drone with the fighter to supplement!

 

[DBdev]

Will a 6th gen version of the KAAN be something like the X-44 Manta?

all this talk about laser weapons reminded me of Eren Drone.

instead of building a laser into the fighter, why not build a cheap drone with a laser to act as a bodyguard for the fighter?

Having a laser on the fighter may compromise the fighter's stealth and use too much power from the fighter.

Weaker the laser longer it takes to melt the missile casing protecting the warhead. Also distances get shorter. You need a few hundred feet to not catch shrapnel from Russian warheads especially. America prefers hit to kill. Power is the main problem. Kaan has plenty both for cooling and firing. Most single engine jets don't.

 

[moz68k]

Guys, I would like to inquire about the software developed in order to operate KAAN; in particular, the company which developed it, as some state that it is French Dassault while others state that it is Turkish Havelsan and Aslesan

Which is correct?

I remember being told that it was TÜBİTAK BİLGEM that did the software work.
Software Technologies Research Institute (YTE)

BİLGEM - Informatics and Information Security Advanced Technologies Research Center - TÜBİTAK BİLGEM

TÜBİTAK BİLGEM aims to become an R&D center that shapes the future by making our country a reference point and to direct the science and technology of the future.

bilgem.tubitak.gov.tr

From open sources, job listings give a good idea as well, but there aren't any open right now:

CAD/CAM: Dassault CATIA & Siemens NX
Engineering Simulation: Ansys and in-house tools
OS: TÜBİTAK BİLGEM (GzİS)
Avionics: ASELSAN
Training Sim: HAVELSAN

I think flight control algorithms are in-house, running on Bilgem computers and OS.

As for the value of CATIA and NX, I know most aerospace engineers are taught to use them. They're very mature, but there are newer tools like PTC Creo (which even Lockheed Martin is starting to adopt). There's also an excellent Russian alternative by ASCON called KOMPAS-3D. The people that develop it literally wrote the textbook on Geometric Modeling. They're no joke. So options abound---but we have the industry standard, so no need to consider the alternatives. Haters be damned.

 

[Radonsider]

From open sources, job listings give a good idea as well, but there aren't any open right now:

CAD/CAM: Dassault CATIA & Siemens NX
Engineering Simulation: Ansys and in-house tools
OS: TÜBİTAK BİLGEM (GzİS)
Avionics: ASELSAN
Training Sim: HAVELSAN

I think flight control algorithms are in-house, running on Bilgem computers and OS.

As for the value of CATIA and NX, I know most aerospace engineers are taught to use them. They're very mature, but there are newer tools like PTC Creo (which even Lockheed Martin is starting to adopt). There's also an excellent Russian alternative by ASCON called KOMPAS-3D. The people that develop it literally wrote the textbook on Geometric Modeling. They're no joke. So options abound---but we have the industry standard, so no need to consider the alternatives. Haters be damned.

some of the avionics are made by Tübitak BİLGEM btw, huge props to them because they are developing the ICP and have contributed to the first flight with many subsystems, most notable being the FCC

 

[Radonsider]

Milli Muharip Uçağı KAAN, İlk Uçuşunu Gerçekleştirdi | TÜBİTAK | Türkiye Bilimsel ve Teknolojik Araştırma Kurumu

T.C. Sanayi ve Teknoloji Bakanlığı'nın ilgili kuruluşudur.

tubitak.gov.tr

 

[BalkanTurk90]

Kotil: We built the Hürjet to accelerate the Kaan project. We are working on the 6th generation through KAAN.

Perhaps one of the most important evaluation mistakes we have made is that we are referring to the traditional project development models of the western aviation industry. Normally, there should be 10-15 year intervals between these systems, but at TAI, the development of successors and predecessors are built on top of each other simultaneously.

I love this CEO of TAI Temel Kotil , how he speaks and explain is super , Turkiye should make him Hero of Republic

 

[Boz]

 

[moz68k]

Milli Muharip Uçağı KAAN, İlk Uçuşunu Gerçekleştirdi | TÜBİTAK | Türkiye Bilimsel ve Teknolojik Araştırma Kurumu

T.C. Sanayi ve Teknoloji Bakanlığı'nın ilgili kuruluşudur.

tubitak.gov.tr

This article also mentions how MAM will handle the canopy. Full translation:

Turkey's developed 5th generation fighter aircraft, KAAN, took off from the runway, meeting the sky as it lifted its wheels off the ground. The flight, which held the breath of all Turkey, also made a great impact worldwide. Taking its first flight on February 21, 2024, at 08:50, KAAN remained airborne for 13 minutes, reaching an altitude of 8000 feet and a speed of 230 knots.

KAAN provides superior air dominance with its High Performance and Integrated Avionics System, which includes Extended Air-to-Air Combat Range with New Weapons, Precision and Full Hit from Internal Weapon Bays at High/Supersonic Speeds, Artificial Intelligence, and Heterogeneous Computing support.

During KAAN's first flight, the Central Management Computer developed by TÜBİTAK, Avionics Interface Units, Deterministic Network, Multi-Core Real-Time Operating System, and Middleware Software were used.

The main control computers were designed and manufactured by TÜBİTAK BİLGEM.

The computer system, referred to as KAAN's brain, was successfully developed by TÜBİTAK BİLGEM and delivered to TUSAŞ ahead of the planned date in 2022.

The avionics computer system has safety-critical and high-performance processor modules with deterministic and high-speed communication infrastructures. This computer performs data processing and management functions for Mission (Communication, Navigation, AESA Radar, Electronic Warfare, Electro-Optical Targeting and Weapon) Systems along with critical aircraft management functions such as engine system management, flight system management, etc. The mission computers reduce the pilot's workload and also generate displays for the instruments and helmet-mounted display.

The Multi-Core National Real-Time Operating System was developed by TÜBİTAK BİLGEM.

The Real-Time Operating System (GzIS), developed by TÜBİTAK BİLGEM, was made multi-core to meet KAAN's high computing needs and was used on the Main Management Computers during KAAN's first flight.

When the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft KAAN project is completed, it will become unique with TÜBİTAK's critical technologies.

Systems developed by TÜBİTAK BİLGEM for KAAN:

Flight Control and Aircraft Management Computers

These are computers that manage engines, flight control surfaces (flaps), and other aircraft systems. They were used in KAAN's first flight.

Central Management Computers

These are 5th Generation Integrated Modular Avionics computers that manage the aircraft's main systems and weapon systems, generate images for avionics displays and helmet-mounted displays, and ensure the aircraft's cyber security. They were used in KAAN's first flight.

Mission Management Computers

These are computers that process and manage data from communication, navigation, electro-optical targeting, radar, and electronic warfare systems. They were used in KAAN's first flight.

Avionics Interface Units

These units convert aircraft sensor and actuator signals and facilitate communication with legacy interface systems. They were used in KAAN's first flight.

Deterministic Network

It is a high-speed optical network that ensures the transportation of data with different criticality levels without affecting each other. It was used in KAAN's first flight.

High-Speed Network

It is an optical network that enables the transportation of a large amount of sensor data to management computers at very high speeds. It was used in KAAN's first flight.

Multi-Core Real-Time Operating System

These are operating systems that allow different applications of varying criticality levels to run on all of KAAN's computers without affecting each other and with high performance. They were used in KAAN's first flight.

Middleware Software

These are middleware software that enable communication between KAAN's sensors and each other, perform protocol conversion for interfaces, generate display graphics for indicator displays, and run artificial intelligence applications. They were used in KAAN's first flight.

EMC Test System

It is a system that measures and analyzes the compatibility of all electronic systems on KAAN with each other.

Antenna Test System (NFRTF)

It is a system that determines the geometry of KAAN and ensures the low radar cross-section for the 5th Generation stealth aircraft.

Systems to be developed by TÜBİTAK MAM for KAAN:

Life Support System

Life Support Systems are being developed to enable Fighter Aircraft pilots to sustain basic vital functions under conditions requiring high physical endurance.

Explosion Prevention System
[probably a Fuel Tank Inerting System]
Explosion Prevention Systems are being developed to prevent explosion and fuel boiling in fuel tanks of Fighter Aircraft, taking into account the variable conditions of the aircraft.

Electromagnetic Modeling and Optimization of Radar Absorbing Multilayer Thin Film Surface Coating

The RASEM software is being developed to give the National Fighter Aircraft invisibility feature, especially in the design processes of the canopy.

Development of a Surfaces Providing Low Visibility in Intake of National Fighter Aircraft

For providing a low radar visibility to air intakes of MMU-KAAN, surface designs within the duct will be tested and measured.

Electromagnetic Modeling and Implementation of Frequency Selective Surfaces for National Fighter Aircraft

For providing the low radar visibility feature to KAAN, RASEM-RADOM software is being developed for electromagnetic design and optimization of KAAN's radome with frequency selective characteristics.

The armament integration of KAAN will be carried out by TÜBİTAK SAGE

TÜBİTAK SAGE's SOM A, SOM B1, SOM B2, HGK 82, HGK 83, HGK 84, NEB, GÖKHAN, KGK 82, KGK 83, GÖKDOĞAN, and BOZDOĞAN projects will be integrated into KAAN.

 

[Huelague]

If TAI is working on 6.Generation fighter jet. It means they know the parameters and requirements. Anyone know this, too?

 

[uçuyorum]

I am also guilty of this but I think we derailed this topic too much with 6th gen talk. Let's make KAAN as is first

 

[Bozan]

Lol it's just occurred to me that a big driver of shitty polarisation on turkish twitter is verified accounts making money in dollars on engagement and that's why you have so many extreme left/right on there posting divisive stuff because dollar to lira exchange makes it worth it

Automatically suspicious of all those verified sub 1000 follower accounts posting tweets 24/7

 

[TheInsider]

6th Gen will probably come with
Advanced propulsion, variable bypass design, and CMC turbine blades
Galium oxide radars
Wideband RF and IR stealth
Advanced networking (LEO SAT constellation), data fusion, and MUM-T
Aerodynamic design without vertical stabilizers
Increased power production (1MW)
High-powered laser.

Real 6th-gen fighters will most likely come with these features meanwhile there will be 5.5th-gen fighters that will have some of them.

 

[Huelague]

without vertical stabilizers

Why? Its a disadvantage in manoeuvrbility.
Add some more features like, more speed, range, altitude, payload..

 

[Rodeo]

6th Gen will probably come with
Advanced propulsion, variable bypass design, and CMC turbine blades
Galium oxide radars
Wideband RF and IR stealth
Advanced networking (LEO SAT constellation), data fusion, and MUM-T
Aerodynamic design without vertical stabilizers
Increased power production (1MW)
High-powered laser.

Real 6th-gen fighters will most likely come with these features meanwhile there will be 5.5th-gen fighters that will have some of them.

yeah. it's only $350(?) millions a pop. who wouldn't buy it(that assumes it's available for export)?

 

[TheInsider]

Why? Its a disadvantage in manoeuvrbility.

The lack of vertical stabilizers lowers the RCS of the aircraft. Maneuverability will be less important in the future.

 

[Huelague]

The lack of vertical stabilizers lowers the RCS of the aircraft. Maneuverability will be less important in the future.

Engaging incoming missiles are still a threat. I would not omitting that. Just reduce the size.

 

[BalkanTurk90]

6gen Turkish Drone should be super-steath high altitude (25-30km) bomber with 3-4 huge engines (scramjet) or other, but able to reach 4-5 mach . Length of 26-32 meter that can bomb enemy 2000km away

 

[Nilgiri]

Yes I knew about that part bur

So I didn't get stuck on that. I'm talking about geometry which Nilgiri explained.

Basically, the spine is a big bigger than similar aircraft?

Yeah a bit bigger perhaps, but I see no issue..... its a baked in issue to begin with when you have two engines vs one especially
With one engine you can harness more of the intrinsic advantage in the spine being more flush to begin with given the engine centerlines with the cockpit naturally.

With two engines, the cockpit always has to jut out bit from body, otherwise making everything flush is just way too heavy design penalty.

One can notice the similar trade-off Su-57 and J-20 had to do here too along with F-22.

So it is design consideration rather than design concern IMO.

W.r.t the glass treatments, its a bit like tinted windows for a VIP car, can see out, not easy to see in....radar is partially absorbed and some is also reflected in more coherent (and thus low observable) way than glass letting it through and bouncing off pilot, seat, panels etc and give a much larger radar return and IR signature too.

Astronaut visors, sunglasses etc similar thing (but more to protect whats beneath)....just optimized to different wavelength.

TFX has all of this baked in and sorted out as best as it can be from what I can see (trust me I heard exact same shoptalk for F-22 before with the way its canopy sticks out from some angles many years ago, from both say F-117 purists and F-15 purists).

I would use 99+ times more manhours at this point on the AESA radar compared to canopy stuff basically.

Since non-optimal AESA (channel leakage, insufficient modes, improper mode, handling or selection logic etc) has chance to release 99+ times more emission than canopy+spine ever could.

The glas is not the problem as it is teansparent to radio waves. The problem is what's behind the glas, which is the cockpit. The cockpit bieng made out of flat surfaces in straight angles will act like a retro-reflect in essence. All aircrafts have this problem.

What is normally done is to coate the canopy with a transparent conductive film such that the shape of the canopy reflects away the incoming radio wave. The most common such material is indium tin oxide. You see these material even on commercial aircrafts but mainly for de-icing of cockpit windows.

Yup bascially where I was coming from is that the curved nature of the glass itself is not a reflector issue...given its material.

But yes the next part is what lies beyond the glass (pilot, MFD, cockpit panelling etc) and that is where the glass treatments come in.

i.e Absorb as much as possible in Radar and IR range, and rest reflect in more coherent way (one incident curved surface of the glass) than you otherwise would have (tons of incident curved surfaces behind the glass).

Decent further read:

Have Glass: Making the F-16 less observable

You can’t turn an F-16 into a stealth fighter, it will always show up on enemy radar, but by reducing its radar signature, you can make it a lot less visible. We explain how the USAF has set about

www.key.aero