TR Air-Force TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[TheInsider]

Kaan will be a testing bed for many 6th-gen capabilities, but KAAN won't be a 6th-gen system ever.

These are cross-sections of the B-2 Spirit and the F-35A from the front and side

There is a reason why real 6th-gen aircraft are without a tail. 6th-gen aircraft require better 360-degree stealth in a wider frequency range (not just the frequency range of the fire control radars) compared to 5th-gen, and this can only be achieved by removing the tail unless someone comes up with a technology that achieves required level of stealth with tails (there is none as of today). With tails, it is especially bad from the sides. Canards also add RCS, but not as much as tails. RCS of canards can also be controlled in real time with software. Eurofighter has that ability. That is why the US F-47 got rid of tails to increase stealth, but trade-off is canards to have that extra agility/maneuverability required from a fighter. China did this with wingtip control surfaces

Advances in aviation enabled tailless designs to have agility/maneuverability that comes close to fighters with tails, even at supersonic speeds. That was not the case in the past. B-2 is basically a subsonic bomber with a limited flight envelope. Tempest won't be a real 6th gen unless it gets rid of its tail.

6th gen also requires next-generation adaptive cycle/variable cycle engines. Those bring increased fuel efficiency and thrust. The American engine basically starts as a turbofan and operates as a turbojet at higher speeds and altitudes. China goes further; the engine that China is developing starts as a turbofan, functions like a turbojet at higher speeds, and operates like a ramjet at even higher speeds and altitudes, which covers 0 to Mach 3+ range. American ACE can probably be applied to existing 5th gen with air inlet modification/redesign (one of the reasons why they are hesitating to install it on F-35) but i doubt the Chinese version can be used on any existing aircraft. Enginewise other projects have nothing that comes close to those 2. Not even a drawing, let alone a prototype.

Any capability other than these 2 can also be deployed on 5th gen aircraft. You can install stronger radars, better EO sensors, high-bandwidth datalinks, and advanced MUM-T functions. You can increase power production, especially if you have a big twin-engine 5th-gen fighter like KAAN. It will be more difficult with F-35, but possible. Fighters like KAAN and Tempest can't be 6th generation in the future. We can call them 6th gen, but unless they match the capabilities of the American and Chinese fighters, this will remain a marketing gimmick.

 

[Quasar]

Seems like the video guy had a sneak peek at the latest design.

highly doubt that.... not only the presentaion but the content as well strongly feels like created by AI

Source: Prepared with various news sites, offical sources and analysis by the defence industry media team

descriptions of all videos in the channel are copy paste the exact same.

 

[Pilatino]

Kaan will be a testing bed for many 6th-gen capabilities, but KAAN won't be a 6th-gen system ever.

These are cross-sections of the B-2 Spirit and the F-35A from the front and side

There is a reason why real 6th-gen aircraft are without a tail. 6th-gen aircraft require better 360-degree stealth in a wider frequency range (not just the frequency range of the fire control radars) compared to 5th-gen, and this can only be achieved by removing the tail unless someone comes up with a technology that achieves required level of stealth with tails (there is none as of today). With tails, it is especially bad from the sides. Canards also add RCS, but not as much as tails. RCS of canards can also be controlled in real time with software. Eurofighter has that ability. That is why the US F-47 got rid of tails to increase stealth, but trade-off is canards to have that extra agility/maneuverability required from a fighter. China did this with wingtip control surfaces

Advances in aviation enabled tailless designs to have agility/maneuverability that comes close to fighters with tails, even at supersonic speeds. That was not the case in the past. B-2 is basically a subsonic bomber with a limited flight envelope. Tempest won't be a real 6th gen unless it gets rid of its tail.

6th gen also requires next-generation adaptive cycle/variable cycle engines. Those bring increased fuel efficiency and thrust. The American engine basically starts as a turbofan and operates as a turbojet at higher speeds and altitudes. China goes further; the engine that China is developing starts as a turbofan, functions like a turbojet at higher speeds, and operates like a ramjet at even higher speeds and altitudes, which covers 0 to Mach 3+ range. American ACE can probably be applied to existing 5th gen with air inlet modification/redesign (one of the reasons why they are hesitating to install it on F-35) but i doubt the Chinese version can be used on any existing aircraft. Enginewise other projects have nothing that comes close to those 2. Not even a drawing, let alone a prototype.

Any capability other than these 2 can also be deployed on 5th gen aircraft. You can install stronger radars, better EO sensors, high-bandwidth datalinks, and advanced MUM-T functions. You can increase power production, especially if you have a big twin-engine 5th-gen fighter like KAAN. It will be more difficult with F-35, but possible. Fighters like KAAN and Tempest can't be 6th generation in the future. We can call them 6th gen, but unless they match the capabilities of the American and Chinese fighters, this will remain a marketing gimmick.

I actually agree with many of the technical points you raised, especially regarding tailless architectures and broadband 360° stealth. Aerodynamically and signature-wise, tailless designs do offer advantages, and adaptive-cycle engines will be a major milestone. No disagreement there.

But here’s the issue:

The strict criteria you’re listing don’t match what the actual 6th-generation programs are doing.
Not in the US, not in Europe, not in China.

1. Tailless design is NOT a global requirement and the proof is overwhelming.

GCAP (UK–Japan–Italy) → Has vertical tails. Still marketed as 6th gen.

FCAS (France–Germany–Spain) → Also has tails. Still officially 6th gen.


If “real 6th gen must be tailless,”
then every single one of these programs is disqualified.

Clearly, the world’s leading aerospace countries don’t see tail fins as the absolute barrier you describe; not for stealth, not for classification.

2. 360° broadband stealth is NOT exclusively tied to tailless platforms.

A tail raises the design challenge, but it does not prevent next-gen stealth, otherwise GCAP & FCAS wouldn't exist in their current forms.

3. Adaptive/variable-cycle engines also do not define a generation barrier.

ACE (Adaptive Cycle Engines) GE XA100, Pratt XA101can be retrofitted into existing 5th gens with inlet redesigns.
Even the USAF says this openly.

If a technology is retrofittable to a 5th gen,
it cannot logically be the defining element of a new generation.

China’s tri-mode turbine/ramjet hybrid is ambitious,
but again nothing prevents future airframes (including KAAN) from adopting parallel technologies when mature.

4. Nearly all other “6th-gen features” are also retrofittable.

high-power AESA

IRST evolution

AI copilot

MUM-T & loyal wingman control

high-bandwidth datalinks

electronic attack suites

onboard power growth

sensor fusion upgrades

All of these can go on a 5th gen platform especially a large twin-engine design like KAAN.

So saying “KAAN can never be 6th gen” is not a technical conclusion but it’s speculation based on incomplete data.

5. The real inconsistency: limiting KAAN with rules no one else follows.

You said:

> “We can call them 6th gen but…”

Well, they are doing exactly that calling tailed jets “6th gen.”
France, UK, Germany, Italy, Japan… none of them agonize over tails, inlet philosophy, or ACE maturity when branding.

So the logical next step is simple:

Let us call KAAN ‘next gen’ as well just like everyone else labels their own jets.

Why should Türkiye be the only country limiting itself with criteria that even the originators of the programs ignore?

If the French, British, Germans, Italians, Japanese, Chinese, and Americans don’t burden themselves with this level of self-imposed restriction…

why on earth should we?

 

[boredaf]

Let us call KAAN ‘next gen’ as well just like everyone else labels their own jets.

Why should Türkiye be the only country limiting itself with criteria that even the originators of the programs ignore?

If the French, British, Germans, Italians, Japanese, Chinese, and Americans don’t burden themselves with this level of self-imposed restriction…

why on earth should we?

Because those countries are operating 5th gen planes and are working on or planning to work on6th gen planes. As 5th gen planes already exist, 6th gen planes, by definition, are the next gen planes. 6 comes after 5, next one comes after the one that already exists. We are working on a 5th gen plane by definitions already exist and used, planning to work on 6th gen based on Kaan in the future. A generation that already exists and in use cannot be, by default, next gen.

You created some psy-op in your mind mate when all they are doing is talking about 6th gen aircrafts. Nobody is trying to make a new 5th gen plane and call it next gen. China made both J-20 and J-35 *after* F-22 and F-35 already came to be and they didn't call their jets "next gen". What you are suggesting is like making the equivalent of PS5 and calling it next gen; all the while PS5 already exist and Sony is working on PS6. It is simply illogical, and quite frankly, irrelevant.

 

[Pilatino]

Because those countries are operating 5th gen planes and are working on or planning to work on6th gen planes. As 5th gen planes already exist, 6th gen planes, by definition, are the next gen planes. 6 comes after 5, next one comes after the one that already exists. We are working on a 5th gen plane by definitions already exist and used, planning to work on 6th gen based on Kaan in the future. A generation that already exists and in use cannot be, by default, next gen.

You created some psy-op in your mind mate when all they are doing is talking about 6th gen aircrafts. Nobody is trying to make a new 5th gen plane and call it next gen. China made both J-20 and J-35 *after* F-22 and F-35 already came to be and they didn't call their jets "next gen". What you are suggesting is like making the equivalent of PS5 and calling it next gen; all the while PS5 already exist and Sony is working on PS6. It is simply illogical, and quite frankly, irrelevant.

That argument only works if ‘generations’ were some universal certified system but they aren’t.
Countries label their programs based on development philosophy, not release order.

Europe calls Tempest/FCAS ‘6th gen’ despite clearly evolutionary designs and unlike what’s being claimed, they don’t even have a domestic 5th-gen predecessor to succeed in the first place.

The label signals where the program is going, not what already exists.

Our people, on the other hand, are terrified of reactions:
‘What will foreigners say if we call Kaan 6th gen now?’
Meanwhile those same foreigners don’t care at all.

This is where TUSAŞ leadership should simply say:
We started modestly, but the tech roadmap evolved. Calling this plane strictly 5th-gen undersells the work.
Because it does.

And honestly, even if KAAN outperforms the F-35 tomorrow, critics, rivals, adversaries still won’t give credit just like they did to China before it proving itself via Pakistan against India.

So yes:
Let’s call them 6th gen. Including KAAN.
They aren’t crying over numbers somehow only we are...

 

[uçuyorum]

Kaan will be a contemporary, current generation fighter. No need to sweat terminology that much. F16 is last gen.

 

[Merzifonlu]

I’ve come up with an idea you might find amusing—I figured out a way to replicate the vertical stabilizer’s function without relying on air brakes or movable nozzles. This thought struck me while studying the Kızılelma’s fuselage. By operating without air brakes, it can keep its stealth features at their peak.

I am adding an image. When high-pressure air escapes from the engine nozzle, it creates low pressure in the air duct, producing a lateral force. This force can occur even when the aircraft isn’t moving.

 

[Pilatino]

Guys, if Europe didn’t brand their future jets as 6th gen, once the next real leap arrived the gap would’ve widened so much that catching up would be nearly impossible. And with the world sliding into deeper chaos, they’d be locked even tighter into U.S. dependency. So they played it smart: instead of naming the train they missed, they named the train that’s still coming.


But by doing that while the actual 6th-gen movers are China and the U.S. they muddied the waters and created the exact confusion we’re arguing about here.


Meanwhile we stayed honest and modest… but guys, the 5th- and 6th-gen labels have been polluted. The boundaries are blurred. To sum up, we’ve been using the terms wrong and it’s time we fix that before it's too late. I can imagine the reviews on YouTube from Arab states etc. Habibi Turks themselves openly says theirs jet is 5th gen so how can you say Kaan's better than Tempest or FCAS etc... LoL I don't want to fix 1000000 guys I want to fix the 1 source!

 

[hugh]

can we please get past this verbiage and focus on the real product? i don't think these lengthy discussions about its nameplate provide any value to the thread and to the readers.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Dear members, don’t you think this argument/discussion has been going on long enough? It is clear that you are not going to change @Pilatino ’s mind. He is well anchored with his ideas.
I think it is time to agree to disagree. Otherwise the thread is being cluttered with this idea being repeated over and over again. This will lead to most stuff you have spent time posting to be deleted.
Please take the hint and release the thread from this futile argument.

 

[Pilatino]

Dear members, don’t you think this argument/discussion has been going on long enough? It is clear that you are not going to change @Pilatino ’s mind. He is well anchored with his ideas.
I think it is time to agree to disagree. Otherwise the thread is being cluttered with this idea being repeated over and over again. This will lead to most stuff you have spent time posting to be deleted.
Please take the hint and release the thread from this futile argument.

Alright,

We don’t have to agree; discussions would be boring if everyone thought the same anyway.

Let’s keep the thread clean and focus on KAAN itself as you suggested. I’ll save my ideas about it for another day and another village.