TR Air-Force TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[2033]

Mate, please don't count that abomination among the others. That was perhaps the single most blatant propagandization of defence industry I have ever seen. It was clearly not even close to being a ground test unit when it made that flight. And then he promised it would be delivered to army last year, instead of letting it slide into obscurity. He was living in a fantasy world of his own, if he had stayed, none of his deadlines could have ever been made in real world.

Crossing the psychological threshold was important. Temel Kotil made significant initial moves. He had to deal with intense criticism from both inside and outside. The current managers are not under that level of pressure

 

[Pilatino]

Mr. Demiroglu said Kaan will be 5.5 at some point. It's better than nothing to start with I guess I'll continue to push for 6th gen labeling harder and harder cuz it deserves that!

 

[Yasar_TR]

Mate, please don't count that abomination among the others. That was perhaps the single most blatant propagandization of defence industry I have ever seen. It was clearly not even close to being a ground test unit when it made that flight. And then he promised it would be delivered to army last year, instead of letting it slide into obscurity. He was living in a fantasy world of his own, if he had stayed, none of his deadlines could have ever been made in real world.

Bro, I agree with you that it was an abomination of a helicopter. But nevertheless it flew to prove a point. You can’t show a single move of this administration related to defence industry, that is publicised, that does not have a political agenda and is not used as a propaganda tool.
That Soviet era Ukranian engine should never have been attached to that modern helicopter. But it happened and served a purpose.
Please don’t take my above two posts as a defence for Kotil. As I said : Better the devil you know. This one has yet to prove his worth. So far nothing positive yet. For the sake of our defence industry, I would love to be proven wrong about him though.

 

[IC3M@N FX]

Today, it hardly makes sense to develop a classic heavy combat helicopter. Turkey primarily needs light and medium combat helicopters that are agile and dynamic, not expensive heavy gunships based on the Apache or Ka-52 models.
The war in Ukraine has clearly shown that heavy combat helicopters are extremely vulnerable. Many Russian helicopters were shot down in ambushes by VSHORAD/MANPADS and, increasingly, by FPV drones. In a battlefield saturated with sensors, drones and air defence systems, large manned helicopters are high-value targets with a high risk of loss.
In addition, the cost-benefit factor is no longer proportional: a modern combat helicopter costs tens of millions of dollars, while it can be countered by comparatively inexpensive drones or portable air defence systems.
The concept is moving towards networked systems consisting of drones, sensor platforms and optionally manned aircraft.
For Turkey, therefore, a focus on light and medium combat helicopters in combination with armed drones, loitering munitions and modern air defence makes much more sense than developing a heavy combat helicopter.

It was right to put the project on hold indefinitely.

 

[Pete Mitchell Maverick]

I don't think a delay of a few months is anything to exaggerate in such a large project. I'd like to remind you that even the F-35 project was delayed for years, and America is a country with decades more experience than us in 5th generation aircraft.

While not a perfect match, a company like Boeing delayed the delivery of its 777X aircraft by 7 years. If even a company that has been producing aircraft for 100 years is experiencing problems, this situation is quite normal for TUSAŞ. After all, it's an expensive prototype, and they want it to take off without any problems.

 

[Sanchez]

I don't think a delay of a few months is anything to exaggerate in such a large project. I'd like to remind you that even the F-35 project was delayed for years, and America is a country with decades more experience than us in 5th generation aircraft.

While not a perfect match, a company like Boeing delayed the delivery of its 777X aircraft by 7 years. If even a company that has been producing aircraft for 100 years is experiencing problems, this situation is quite normal for TUSAŞ. After all, it's an expensive prototype, and they want it to take off without any problems.

There will be many more delays in aircraft and engine production and development. Let's just say that finalization of EFs for the air force was a huge boon.

 

[Zafer]

There will be many more delays in aircraft and engine production and development. Let's just say that finalization of EFs for the air force was a huge boon.

Anka3 and Kızılelma are on fast track to compensate, I wouldn't worry. Going forward we are yet to see if more machine or more men will be in the field so that we adjust what we want to have for fighters. If a naval Kızılelma with beefed up specs makes sense we take that path. In any case our companies will have had huge experience to use when they want to develop another fighter. If they can roll out a new plane in 2 years lets say with all the experience they will have then there is no rush. We need to field what we have already developed and see how they are coping and move on from there. We just need to make sure we have the components like engines and sensors ready to go.

 

[Yasar_TR]

There will be many more delays in aircraft and engine production and development. Let's just say that finalization of EFs for the air force was a huge boon.

I agree. There will be unforeseen delays along the way. That is inevitable. But it mustn’t become the norm. And when it happens, credible reasons will have to be provided.

Another point that needs to be addressed is that, a lot of members have far too much expectations for the Anka-3 and KE.

For these platforms to perform like manned jets there is still a lot of hurdles to overcome. Therefore they will have to serve and operate with ground control being in charge. To have total AI control or react like a manned aircraft will take time. Satellite controlled UAVs will have to be the norm in spite of their latency problems. LOS control of these will have range and terrain obstructions limitations.

Both LOS and Satellite control will have problems of EW and jamming in the days to come. Quite likely many countries are working on disrupting control signals and making UCAVs useless.

Best way to operate them will be as loyal wingman. Manned Unmanned team work will in the short term prove itself most useful.

We have to remember that we are still using UBAS firing system on most of our F16s and Azerbaijani Su25s when firing, SOM, Gokdogan, Bozdogan munitions. Ozgur and Kaan will be the first platforms with which we will try our platform controlled missile launches.

 

[IC3M@N FX]

I wondered whether a so-called "ring exchange" between Turkey and South Korea would be possible from around 2035 onwards – specifically between the KAI KF-21 Boramae and the TAI KAAN.
South Korea is currently pursuing a similar strategy to Turkey by gradually replacing US subsystems in the KF-21 with its own national components. It is realistic to assume that a largely ITAR-free KF-21 could be available by 2035, including radar, avionics, electronic warfare and, in the future, the engine.
Turkey needs a carrier-based fighter aircraft in the medium term, while South Korea is primarily seeking a powerful air superiority fighter for the Pacific region. Against this backdrop, an exchange model could make strategic sense:
Turkey would receive a naval-capable variant of the KF-21 as a carrier aircraft, while South Korea could in return deploy the KAAN as a high-performance air superiority fighter.
Such a model would enable both countries to meet their respective operational requirements while further expanding their technological independence from third countries.

I toyed with this idea because there is already a comparable example of successful Turkish-Korean defence cooperation: the technology transfer from South Korea's K2 Black Panther -> Turkey's Altay Tank.

 

[TR_123456]

I wondered whether a so-called "ring exchange" between Turkey and South Korea would be possible from around 2035 onwards – specifically between the KAI KF-21 Boramae and the TAI KAAN.
South Korea is currently pursuing a similar strategy to Turkey by gradually replacing US subsystems in the KF-21 with its own national components. It is realistic to assume that a largely ITAR-free KF-21 could be available by 2035, including radar, avionics, electronic warfare and, in the future, the engine.
Turkey needs a carrier-based fighter aircraft in the medium term, while South Korea is primarily seeking a powerful air superiority fighter for the Pacific region. Against this backdrop, an exchange model could make strategic sense:
Turkey would receive a naval-capable variant of the KF-21 as a carrier aircraft, while South Korea could in return deploy the KAAN as a high-performance air superiority fighter.
Such a model would enable both countries to meet their respective operational requirements while further expanding their technological independence from third countries.

I toyed with this idea because there is already a comparable example of successful Turkish-Korean defence cooperation: the technology transfer from South Korea's K2 Black Panther -> Turkey's Altay Tank.

Yeah but it was only one way,why would South-Korea do that when there are other(''better'') options?

 

[Sattifarhan]

Indonesia’s KAAN Deal Hinges on an ITAR-Free Jet​

Jakarta: No ITAR Exposure​

Indonesia says it will buy KAAN only if the jet is free of U.S.-controlled components under ITAR. In other words, the KAAN fighter jet from Indonesia being ITAR-free is not a slogan—it is the purchase condition. From the Indonesian government, US components are a big no from their side.

ITAR Changes for Operators​

Even when building a platform outside the United States, ITAR (International Traffic in Arms Regulations) can apply. Washington can still influence export, re-export, modification, and upgrade pathways if a subsystem, software, or technical data originates from the United States and is under its control.

Sources

• https://defensenewstoday.info/indonesias-kaan-deal-hinges-on-an-itar-free-jet/
• https://aerospaceglobalnews.com/news/indonesia-kaan-fighter-jet-deal-us-free-components/
• https://defensemirror.com/news/40950/Indonesia_to_Buy_Turkish_KAAN_Fighter_if_it_is_Free_of_U_S__Components

 

[Sanchez]

First, direct, open extension of hands to Spain for Kaan that I remember.

The Turkish fighter jet manufacturer leaves the door open to Spain amid the FCAS standstill​

The first prototype of the KAAN fighter jet could be ready by June of this year, with the first deliveries scheduled for 2029.

El fabricante del avión de combate turco deja la puerta abierta a España ante la parálisis del FCAS

Mientras el Futuro Sistema Aéreo de Combate (FCAS, por sus siglas en inglés), el proyecto en el que participa España junto a Alemania y Francia, continúa

www.elindependiente.com

 

[Iskander]

First, direct, open extension of hands to Spain for Kaan that I remember.

The Turkish fighter jet manufacturer leaves the door open to Spain amid the FCAS standstill​

The first prototype of the KAAN fighter jet could be ready by June of this year, with the first deliveries scheduled for 2029.

El fabricante del avión de combate turco deja la puerta abierta a España ante la parálisis del FCAS

Mientras el Futuro Sistema Aéreo de Combate (FCAS, por sus siglas en inglés), el proyecto en el que participa España junto a Alemania y Francia, continúa

www.elindependiente.com

FCAS's first flight is scheduled for 2035.
10 years! That's a long time.

In about 10 years, Türkiye produced 9 aircraft

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.aa.com.tr/tr/dosya-haber/turkiye-yaklasik-10-yilda-9-milli-platformu-ucurdu/3144779&ved=2ahUKEwjdkqzu8beSAxVOgv0HHao-NOIQFnoECBkQAQ&usg=AOvVaw13WYeXVG378FG9FC4e0h38

 

[Spitfire9]

First, direct, open extension of hands to Spain for Kaan that I remember.

The Turkish fighter jet manufacturer leaves the door open to Spain amid the FCAS standstill​

The first prototype of the KAAN fighter jet could be ready by June of this year, with the first deliveries scheduled for 2029.

When I read about FCAS problems I read only of the France-Germany problems regarding their interests. No mention of Spain's interests. In Spain's shoes I would be thinking of getting away from the other partners if I could see a way out. Some involvement in KAAN is a possible way out.

I guess that if FCAS folds in the next few months, Spain will be interested in any offer Turkiye makes. Apart from buying aircraft for its air force, what could Spain do as a partner to contribute to the success of the programme? What contribution do the current partners make?

 

[Pokemonte13]

When I read about FCAS problems I read only of the France-Germany problems regarding their interests. No mention of Spain's interests. In Spain's shoes I would be thinking of getting away from the other partners if I could see a way out. Some involvement in KAAN is a possible way out.

I guess that if FCAS folds in the next few months, Spain will be interested in any offer Turkiye makes. Apart from buying aircraft for its air force, what could Spain do as a partner to contribute to the success of the programme? What contribution do the current partners make?

They would probably have something similar to Hürjet if it comes to that. Integration of subsystems(electronics...) and even a full contributors like in the F35 program so that they produce some parts of body. But all depends if they want to be a full member or just want to buy some 80 aircraft with some local input.

 

[Zafer]

April is back on the menu boyz

Emphasizing that they aim to begin test flights with the KAAN prototype by the end of April, Demiroğlu announced that their exports exceeded 1 billion dollars last year, and that their target for this year is 1.5 billion dollars.

Milli savaş uçağı KAAN’da test uçuşu için tarih verildi

Haber 7 - Milli savaş uçağı KAAN prototipiyle test uçuşlarına başlamayı hedeflediklerini vurgulayan (TUSAŞ) Genel Müdürü Mehmet Demiroğlu, geçen ihracatta 1 milyar dolar üzerine çıktıklarını, hedeflerinin bu yıl 1,5 milyar dolar olacağını açıkladı.

m.haber7.com

It is like losing the donkey and finding it back.

 

[Iskander]

April is back on the menu boyz

Emphasizing that they aim to begin test flights with the KAAN prototype by the end of April, Demiroğlu announced that their exports exceeded 1 billion dollars last year, and that their target for this year is 1.5 billion dollars.

Milli savaş uçağı KAAN’da test uçuşu için tarih verildi

Haber 7 - Milli savaş uçağı KAAN prototipiyle test uçuşlarına başlamayı hedeflediklerini vurgulayan (TUSAŞ) Genel Müdürü Mehmet Demiroğlu, geçen ihracatta 1 milyar dolar üzerine çıktıklarını, hedeflerinin bu yıl 1,5 milyar dolar olacağını açıkladı.

m.haber7.com

The Russians have long suspected something, but now they are slowly beginning to guess
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"This will ensure independence from the capricious West": Turkiye unveils its domestically produced engine for the Kaan fighter jet.

The Turkish aircraft engine manufacturer TEI (TUSAŞ Engine Industry) has released the first official image of the TF35000 turbofan engine developed for the Kaan aircraft, positioned as a fifth-generation fighter jet.

The developer says that the TF35000, with a thrust of 15.8 tons, is one of Türkiye's most important breakthroughs.

As stated in the Turkish press, the country's new product of the defense industry "challenges existing jet engines in the West and symbolizes the transition to aviation dominance." In terms of thrust, it is equivalent to the Pratt Whitney F119 in the F-22 and surpasses products such as the EJ200 (26,000) in the Eurofighter Typhoon, the M88 (17-20,000) in the Rafale, and the F110 modifications used in the F-16 and F-15 (up to 29,000). Only the F135 engine in the F-35 surpasses the TF35000 with 43,000 thrust in afterburner mode...

...In a world where air superiority increasingly depends on those who possess power plants, a domestically produced engine will enable the country to take its rightful place on the international stage.

- This is the opinion in the Turkiye press.


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...HhAWegQINRAB&usg=AOvVaw0jy1jHialrQNY1sqMcKKaa.
comments

 

[Yasar_TR]

When I read about FCAS problems I read only of the France-Germany problems regarding their interests. No mention of Spain's interests. In Spain's shoes I would be thinking of getting away from the other partners if I could see a way out. Some involvement in KAAN is a possible way out.

I guess that if FCAS folds in the next few months, Spain will be interested in any offer Turkiye makes. Apart from buying aircraft for its air force, what could Spain do as a partner to contribute to the success of the programme? What contribution do the current partners make?

Currently there are 3 so called partners in the Kaan project.
Azerbaijan : Involved in it financially.
Pakistan : Involved in the program with technical expertise and possible assembly line help.
Egypt : Probably some form of assembly and small parts manufacturing.

None of these “partners“ have the capability to add something new or significant to the project apart from money, partial cheaper labour and being potential final buyer. Depending on their contribution level they will probably get the Kaan at a reduced price level.

Pakistan has been manufacturing almost 60% of the JF-17 body in house. Also they have been testing and maintaining what they have assembled. They have an assembly line and engineers that know about a fairly modern jet fighter production. They can contribute and also learn from Tusas in return.

Spain too has been manufacturing the Typhoon’s right wing in house and have a final assembly line for their jets. They are also major contributor to the design and production of the EJ200 engine. Their ITP Aero company was a subsidiary of RR until recently. They were the people that designed and manufactured the TVC version of that engine as a prototype.
As well as financially, they can contribute technically too.

Kaan, is not Kaan until it is fully laden with all the tech, avionics, BURFIS and millions of lines of written data that is incorporated in it. What makes Kaan a 5th generation top dog is the culmination of all the knowledge, design intricacies, it’s new engine and it’s Aesa radar system all coming together.
You can’t just buy an empty shell of Kaan and use it as it is. It is not a trainer aircraft. It is the pinnacle of Turkish Aerospace engineering, finding a body in the form of Kaan. You have to buy it in it’s finished form.

 

[Huelague]

Currently there are 3 so called partners in the Kaan project.
Azerbaijan : Involved in it financially.
Pakistan : Involved in the program with technical expertise and possible assembly line help.
Egypt : Probably some form of assembly and small parts manufacturing.

I thought Qatar are financially involved.

I asks ChatGPT to render a final P4 Kaan version. It looks very pretty.

 

[Pilatino]

I thought Qatar are financially involved.

I asks ChatGPT to render a final P4 Kaan version. It looks very pretty.

Being it on! Share plz