TR Air-Force TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[Yasar_TR]

Are you serious?

Our startups doing small stuff, not developing a hypersonic missile.

Guys, before discussing/arguing about hypersonic missiles, you need to clarify what you mean by “hypersonic” missiles.

Most ballistic missiles achieve hypersonic speeds during their midcourse flights. Are they hypersonic missiles?
Take Bora missile; during midcourse it reaches hypersonic speeds. But it hits its target just above 1 Mach.
Typhoon block 1 is not much different either. It stays at hypersonic speeds longer at higher values. But it slows down to supersonic speeds during its terminal phase.
Typhoon block 4, as per Roketsan‘s claim, will hit it’s target at hypersonic speeds. That means it will have propulsion during terminal phase. That will make it a truer hypersonic missile than the above ones.

Then of course there is the scramjet powered hypersonic missiles. These will travel at altitudes between 20km to 35km. But will have nonstop propulsion until they hit their targets.

Which is the one that is hypersonic?

 

[Huelague]

Has some one discovered physically changes on KAAN?

 

[Fuzuli NL]

KAAN — 5th Generation Fighter Aircraft

Interactive experience of Türkiye's next-generation stealth fighter jet. Explore specifications, avionics, and capabilities.

kaan-3d-web-experience.vercel.app

 

[Fuzuli NL]

Has some one discovered physically changes on KAAN?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/2023055742601994659

 

[hugh]

The US is against the sale of KAAN to Saudi Arabia

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/2023523728710397965

 

[2033]

So it looks like KSA needs to wait for turkish engines too.

Saudi Arabia could completely back out. The US saying “Let's give you the F-35s, don't buy the Kaan” is enough for them

 

[Pete Mitchell Maverick]

Honestly, I don't think the US will ever provide F110 engines for serial production. It looks like we have no choice but to wait for the TF35000 engine to be ready around 2032–33.

If the US is against Saudi Arabia acquiring the KAAN, they definitely won't give us the engines. We'll have no option but to wait for the TF35000. Unlike the Altay, there isn't even an alternative engine for this project. And anyway, an 'alternative engine' would mean significant design changes.

 

[Zafer]

If foreign engine not arrive by mid 2028 then replace foreign engine with local engine by mid 2029, end wait.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Saudi Arabia could completely back out. The US saying “Let's give you the F-35s, don't buy the Kaan” is enough for them

Saudis are interested in Tempest and Kaan, not because they just need to purchase these planes. They want to learn how they are made. MBS the Crown Prince wants a sizeable indigenous content in the planes they are going to buy to kick start their aerospace industry. Of the two we are the only ones that can help them. But we insist on a minimum 50 plane order to justify us setting up a production line for them in Saudi land.

Honestly, I don't think the US will ever provide F110 engines for serial production. It looks like we have no choice but to wait for the TF35000 engine to be ready around 2032–33.

US would have two reasons not to give us the 110 engines.
1. Kaan is part of the SSB program, and SSB is sanctioned by CAATSA.
2. If they don’t want us to be stepping in, to steal their customers. For that they don’t need to stop delivery of F110s. They just block the sale of engines on specific country basis; like they did with Pakistani Atak129 order.

US knows very well that we will make our own engine in the end. So stopping deliveries of F110 engines is short term solution. Yet if they supply these engines they will be selling minimum 90, more likely 130 engines to us. That is a lot of engine business to lose.

 

[Pete Mitchell Maverick]

Saudis are interested in Tempest and Kaan, not because they just need to purchase these planes. They want to learn how they are made. MBS the Crown Prince wants a sizeable indigenous content in the planes they are going to buy to kick start their aerospace industry. Of the two we are the only ones that can help them. But we insist on a minimum 50 plane order to justify us setting up a production line for them in Saudi land.


US would have two reasons not to give us the 110 engines.
1. Kaan is part of the SSB program, and SSB is sanctioned by CAATSA.
2. If they don’t want us to be stepping in, to steal their customers. For that they don’t need to stop delivery of F110s. They just block the sale of engines on specific country basis; like they did with Pakistani Atak129 order.

US knows very well that we will make our own engine in the end. So stopping deliveries of F110 engines is short term solution. Yet if they supply these engines they will be selling minimum 90, more likely 130 engines to us. That is a lot of engine business to lose.

The only hope is that, thanks to the quite good relationship between President Erdoğan and Trump, the CAATSA sanctions will be lifted during this period and the F110 engines will be supplied quickly. We can also expect the F-16 and F-35 issues to be resolved. As you said, sooner or later we will develop the TF35000 anyway and we won’t need the US anymore. By not giving the engines, they will lose both money and a customer. But in 6-7 years, they will completely lose that customer anyway. Delivering the F110s quickly would also be in their own interest.

 

[TR_123456]

Saudi Arabia could completely back out. The US saying “Let's give you the F-35s, don't buy the Kaan” is enough for them

No it wouldnt,it is deeper then the F-35.
There is no more trust in the US,not just for defence platforms.

 

[YeşilVatan]

As far as I know, Saudis had to stop their moderately successful bombing campaign against Houthis a few years back because they westoids imposed a shadow embargo on air to land munitions. If their minds are changed on these topics, this is probably the catalyst. Which means even if they choose to go with KAAN, they would want a significant workshare.

My proposed solution is to give them freedom to integrate munitions, maybe some standalone sensors. We have to preserve engine and sensor suite at all costs. Not like they can come up with theirs in the foreseeable future. If they cough up large enough money, we can develop parallel projects for different subsystems. Essentially downgrade versions.

I don't know but if Saudis can let go of their unearned superiority complex and be fuckin real for a second, the two countries can essentially dominate the region for at least half a centruy, because they cover each others' weaknesses very well.

 

[Yasar_TR]

İsrail'i korkutan KAAN gelişmesi | STAR

Haberin detayları için tıklayınız

www.star.com.tr

This news content seems too far fetched. But then again so had the Hurjet deal, when it was first mentioned that Spain may buy “Turkish” jets.

According to the information given, there are lots of logical thought processes that one can not dismiss outright.

“According to a report in the Israeli newspaper Maariv, citing Spanish defense sources, the Madrid government has completely abandoned the F-35 project and has begun serious preparations for the Turkish-made KAAN National Combat Aircraft.”

STRATEGIC PARTNERSHIP: ITP AERO AND TEI ALLIANCE
Spain's interest in the KAAN is not limited to a simple aircraft purchase. At the heart of the project lies the goal of complete independence in engine technology. Spanish ITP Aero and Türkiye's engine giant TEI are preparing to establish a "technical survival alliance" for the KAAN's domestically produced engine.

Goal: To end dependence on American General Electric F110 engines.

Focus: Türkiye's developed TF35000 engine.

Division of Labor:
According to the division of labor, TEI will provide the production infrastructure, while ITP Aero will offer technical expertise, particularly in the "hot section" and low-pressure turbine areas. The first ground tests are planned to begin in 2026, with the first flight with the new engine scheduled for 2029. The ultimate goal is stated to be making KAAN independent of American vetoes.”

ITP Aero was a RR subsidiary company until recently. They were instrumental in designing and building a TVC version of the EJ200 engine aimed at getting Indian engine business.

Israeli sources are worried that Spanish see the Kaan superior to F35, according to this news.

Saudi, Pakistani, Indonesian and Egyptian do not bring anything technical that is substantially important to the table. But a Spanish involvement would be invaluable.

We will wait and see how much of this news is credible.

 

[Sanchez]

AFAIK that israeli news mentioned in the news from star is based on these

KAAN, la “Pasión Turca” o el nuevo “Caballo Negro” del tablero aeronáutico (1ª parte) - Defensa y Seguridad

Entre el colapso del FCAS y el “efecto KAAN”: soberanía industrial, riesgos políticos y el hueco que se abre para España

defensayseguridad.es

KAAN, la “Pasión Turca” o el nuevo “Caballo Negro” del tablero aeronáutico (2ª parte): el MOTOR - Defensa y Seguridad

Hablemos del motor. Análisis de un acuerdo que podría resultar muy beneficioso para las fuerzas aéreas española y turca

defensayseguridad.es

And here is the news about it from Tolga Özbek

TF35000 motoru için İspanyol ITP ve TEI neler yapabilir? - Tolga Özbek

Öbür tarafta TUSAŞ ve MMU KAAN var. Uçağın motorunu ise TEI ve TRMotor yapıyor. Bu konuda örneğin İspanyol motor imalatçısı ve teknoloji geliştiricisi ITP ile

tolgaozbek.com

Yup, Star just stole the news without giving a source.

It's an article about what is Kaan for Spanish readers with a part about how one large Spanish company can directly contribute to it. There's no deal with ITP(yet.)

 

[TR_123456]

İsrail'i korkutan KAAN gelişmesi | STAR

Haberin detayları için tıklayınız

www.star.com.tr

This news content seems too far fetched. But then again so had the Hurjet deal, when it was first mentioned that Spain may buy “Turkish” jets.

According to the information given, there are lots of logical thought processes that one can not dismiss outright.

“According to a report in the Israeli newspaper Maariv, citing Spanish defense sources, the Madrid government has completely abandoned the F-35 project and has begun serious preparations for the Turkish-made KAAN National Combat Aircraft.”

STRATEGIC PARTNERSHIP: ITP AERO AND TEI ALLIANCE
Spain's interest in the KAAN is not limited to a simple aircraft purchase. At the heart of the project lies the goal of complete independence in engine technology. Spanish ITP Aero and Türkiye's engine giant TEI are preparing to establish a "technical survival alliance" for the KAAN's domestically produced engine.

Goal: To end dependence on American General Electric F110 engines.

Focus: Türkiye's developed TF35000 engine.

Division of Labor:
According to the division of labor, TEI will provide the production infrastructure, while ITP Aero will offer technical expertise, particularly in the "hot section" and low-pressure turbine areas. The first ground tests are planned to begin in 2026, with the first flight with the new engine scheduled for 2029. The ultimate goal is stated to be making KAAN independent of American vetoes.”

ITP Aero was a RR subsidiary company until recently. They were instrumental in designing and building a TVC version of the EJ200 engine aimed at getting Indian engine business.

Israeli sources are worried that Spanish see the Kaan superior to F35, according to this news.

Saudi, Pakistani, Indonesian and Egyptian do not bring anything technical that is substantially important to the table. But a Spanish involvement would be invaluable.

We will wait and see how much of this news is credible.

The way P1 and P2 look it could be a reality in the future,even i am impressed by their look.

 

[Fuzuli NL]

 

[Spitfire9]

If foreign engine not arrive by mid 2028 then replace foreign engine with local engine by mid 2029, end wait.

The problem with that idea is that there will not be a local engine by mid-2029.

 

[Zafer]

The problem with that idea is that there will not be a local engine by mid-2029.

It depends, if foreign engine does not arrive local engine can be fast tracked, I don't see a roadblock on this path.

 

[hugh]

It depends, if foreign engine does not arrive local engine can be fast tracked, I don't see a roadblock on this path.

the engine prototype will be fired first time in 2028, earliest. this comes from TAI CEO. we have just entered the CDR phase. so there is no TF35k to run, yet. we haven't started building the first prototype. so what you say is literally impossible.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/2022605649335497064

 

[Zafer]

the engine prototype will be fired first time in 2028, earliest. this comes from TAI CEO. we have just entered the CDR phase. so there is no TF35k to run, yet. we haven't started building the first prototype. so what you say is literally impossible.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/2022605649335497064

Fast tract is when you contract time, it is not like you have to let the project age naturally, you take faster steps to maturation. Also the engine might be slated for a later date for maturation but once you reach a point in the process where your engine has already past the performance levels of the foreign engine it becomes your best option even before it has reached the high power levels you are targeting. From 29k lbf to 35k+ lbf thrust levels there is quite a bit of efforts and if you get past 29k lbf by mid 2028 you can possibly use that engine on the plane by mid 2029 if it is your only option.