Air-Force Turkey asks U.S. to buy 40 F-16 jets to upgrade Air Force

LegionnairE

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Plus when you buy a Gripen, you have to build a new infrastructure for it, so the cost per plane you will buy will probably be more expensive than buying a new F16 block 70. And the Gripen E doesn't promise much more than f16 block 70.

From what I heard, we're paying 6 billion dollars for 40 Block 70 F16s and 80 upgrade kits. For that amount of money 100 brand new Gripen-E units could be bought, probably more. I imagine most would be assembled at TAI and many parts would be produced in Turkey.

Gripen-E has a number of advantages over F16 Block 70, Lower RCS and IRST will make it much more competitive against modern threats. And they say electronic warfare capabilities of Gripen-E are very good.
 
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LegionnairE

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Lool

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It has never been a realistic option but merely a bargaining chip. The bigger question is, if Russia is able to produce Su57s at such a slow rate.

What will be our production rate for MMU?
According to TAI, they will produce 2 TFX at max every month; as far as I remember
Iam not sure if this info is outdated or not though

And dont get it wrong though, Russia isnt producing the Su-57 at a slow rate because they dont have the infrastructure; it is mainly because one or two reasons from
1- Russia doesnt have the money to pay for massive numbers of Su-57
2- The Su-57 is mainly a minor upgrade to the new Su-35 yet more expensive; thus, it makes sense to stock up more on the Su-35
3- The Su-57 isnt as stealthy as the F35. In fact, its stealth feature according to many is compromised (dont know if such info is true or not); therefore, Russia may be waiting for the new blocks of Su-57 or just an altogether new plane
4- Not many international customers have ordered the plane yet
 

Lool

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At first I wasnt keen on interrupring the flow of the conversations going on here but I do have some pointers to make

As far as my info goes, the latest F16s variants -The VIPERS- are equipped with some similar systems to those being equipped with their lovely F35s!! According to the USA, their main arguement to them stripping Turkey from the F35 is that the S400s Turkey uses may be used to send info to Russia about US latest tech. If that is the case, how is the US fine with Turkey flying their Vipers with equipment similar to F35s along with the S400s? I sense a lot of contradiction here tbh!

I then remembered Hulusi Akar statements when he said that the US-Turkey problems regarding the F35s are way deeper than the S400s but it is just that the US is trying to confine the problem to the S400s. This means that the US is just using the S400s as an excuse to get what they want from Turkey. I swear, the US acts like a kid throwing a tantrum
This is a farce tbh
 

LegionnairE

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@Lool

Su57 might seem like a minor upgrade over Su35 but it fixes the biggest weakness of the Flanker series which is their huge radar signature.
Also, engines are improved too, giving the plane crazy high performance. It's well worth the price in my opinion.

Only thing I would change is that I would remove the leading edge control surfaces. They are a bit overkill.

That being said it's not even on the table as a bargaining chip now. Now that we're firmly planted on USA's lap. F18E might be the best option moving forward.
 

TheInsider

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From what I heard, we're paying 6 billion dollars for 40 Block 70 F16s and 80 upgrade kits. For that amount of money 100 brand new Gripen-E units could be bought, probably more. I imagine most would be assembled at TAI and many parts would be produced in Turkey.

Gripen-E has a number of advantages over F16 Block 70, Lower RCS and IRST will make it much more competitive against modern threats. And they say electronic warfare capabilities of Gripen-E are very good.
Well, there is a little problem with that. Sweden won't sell us Gripen-E. There is an arms embargo in effect. Our weapon trade with Sweden is even more problematic than the US.
 

TheInsider

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According to TAI, they will produce 2 TFX at max every month; as far as I remember
Iam not sure if this info is outdated or not though

And dont get it wrong though, Russia isnt producing the Su-57 at a slow rate because they dont have the infrastructure; it is mainly because one or two reasons from
1- Russia doesnt have the money to pay for massive numbers of Su-57
2- The Su-57 is mainly a minor upgrade to the new Su-35 yet more expensive; thus, it makes sense to stock up more on the Su-35
3- The Su-57 isnt as stealthy as the F35. In fact, its stealth feature according to many is compromised (dont know if such info is true or not); therefore, Russia may be waiting for the new blocks of Su-57 or just an altogether new plane
4- Not many international customers have ordered the plane yet
Yes, the production rate will be 2 TFX per year for 10 years. The longer the serial production line stays open the better it is. Though I'm sure if any country puts orders for TFX we can double the production rate.
 

Azeri441

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From what I heard, we're paying 6 billion dollars for 40 Block 70 F16s and 80 upgrade kits. For that amount of money 100 brand new Gripen-E units could be bought, probably more. I imagine most would be assembled at TAI and many parts would be produced in Turkey.

Gripen-E has a number of advantages over F16 Block 70, Lower RCS and IRST will make it much more competitive against modern threats. And they say electronic warfare capabilities of Gripen-E are very good.

Nope,

Brazil spent 5 billion for just 36 Gripen Es + local assembly, 6 billion for 40 F-16 Block 70s + 80 upgrade kits is actually a good deal.
 

LegionnairE

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Nope,

Brazil spent 5 billion for just 36 Gripen Es + local assembly, 6 billion for 40 F-16 Block 70s + 80 upgrade kits is actually a good deal.
I doubt that's the actual amount they paid to Sweden. This could be what it took to set up tooling and start the production line.
Anyway, doesn't matter now, the US seems to have approved the sale. There's little political reason to go for Gripen now.


I would buy Typhoons or maybe Gripens just as a diplomatic move against the US as a response to getting kicked out of F35 program and them recognizing the so-called armenian genocide. But it seems there's no honor left in our government. Let's buy Super Hornets.

1634398382278.png
 

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I doubt that's the actual amount they paid to Sweden. This could be what it took to set up tooling and start the production line.
Anyway, doesn't matter now, the US seems to have approved the sale. There's little political reason to go for Gripen now.


I would buy Typhoons or maybe Gripens just as a diplomatic move against the US as a response to getting kicked out of F35 program and them recognizing the so-called armenian genocide. But it seems there's no honor left in our government. Let's buy Super Hornets.

View attachment 33744
New plane means big spends on new infrastructures, maintenance problems. You dont buy a new plane unless it gives u a big advantage over existing.

Super Hornet, Typhoon and F-16 block 70 are pretty much equal (Gripen weaker).
 

TheInsider

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President of Defense Industry Prof. Dr. İsmail Demir answers questions on Channel 7 live broadcast. “Our F-16 modernizations continue. We do it ourselves both structurally, avionics and software.”

Yes, we are at this level.

I think the US F-16 deal should be the last big weapons contract from the US.

BTW, according to early rumors, new production and upgrade won't be done in TAI. The reasons are, TAI has a huge workload, SSB is a shareholder of TAI and SSB is under CAATSA, some changes and new gadgets are needed for the F-16 production line in TAI for F-16 block 70 production. But it is still early in the talks and anything can change. We should wait and see.
 

Combat-Master

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İBRAHİM SÜNNETCİ
"I think this may be a situation like the US offered Patriot, so we were unwilling at the time, and they made an offer that suited our request. The interesting detail here is that, in my opinion, the US has given the green light to use the money paid for the F-35. It's actually surprised me. In this case, both the Main Contractor and the US Government have said ok... If the project is realized, our ties with the F-35 will be officially over."

 
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