TR Turkish Air Forces|News & Discussion

[Trakya_forever]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1446375737280376834

There is a new rumour/info. According to Yusuf Akbaba "Turkey's request is not new. They requested for F15s/F18s as well. However, the US responded only F16 request."

If the US denies the request, we will go our separate ways. On the other hand, if they accept it, it will be a clear victory for Erdoğan, but not Turkey, over Greek, Armenian etc. lobies. He will advertise this for a long time.

On the other hand, 40+80+37 ( Block 30 Özgür + Aselsan AESA) in total 157 F16 Block 70 will be a good power for Turkey with the support of AKINCI/ MIUS and of course other 120 F16s till the MMU/TFX.

 

[Saithan]

F-16 request from Turkey... 'Application was made to the USA'​

It was claimed that Turkey applied to the USA to purchase 40 F-16s and nearly 80 F-16 modernization kits produced by Lockheed Martin of the USA. The US State Department has also issued a statement on the matter.​

08 October 2021 09:04Updated: 08 October 2021 12:43

Reuters, citing defense industry sources, claimed that Turkey made an attempt to purchase 40 F-16 fighter jets and nearly 80 modernization kits for existing warplanes from the USA .

In the news, it was stated that the application for a possible agreement worth billions of dollars is in the process of evaluation at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, and if the Ministry approves, it will be sent to Congress. It was also reminded that Congress has the power to block this sale.

NTV Washington representative Hüseyin Günay also stated the following on the subject:

“Turkey has applied to purchase 40 F-16s from the USA.
At the same time, an agreement was offered for the modernization of 80 F-16 type fighter jets already in the inventory.

Ankara's letter of offer was delivered to Washington on September 30.

This request of Turkey will be evaluated by the US Department of State and the Department of Defense (Pentagon).
If the administration approves the sale of weapons, it will send this request to the US Congress. If the congress is approved, the sale will take place.

Economic circles say the value of the sale is around $10 billion.”

The news was also featured on Greece-based Defenseview.

WHAT DID MSB SOURCES SAY?​

According to the news in the newspaper Cumhuriyet, the claim that Turkey wants to buy 40 new F-16s from the USA has not been confirmed. In the report, where the Ministry of National Defense officials answered the question "We want our F-35s or money from the USA" , on the question of whether there is a new F-16 request, "We want the F-16s in the inventory of the Turkish Air Force within the scope of the current agreements with the USA. It was reported that there may be a demand for the modernization of the .

EXPLANATION FROM US FOREIGN​

According to Reuters; A spokesperson for the U.S. State Department said, "As per our policy, the department does not comment or verify military sales or transfers until we formally inform Congress . " The Turkish embassy in Washington did not respond to questions.

Turkey had previously ordered 100 F-35s from the US defense company Lockheed Martin, but was removed from the F-35 program in 2019 due to the S-400 crisis. The United States imposed sanctions on Turkey for its purchase of the S-400s, and İsmail Demir, the President of the Presidency of Defense Industries, and three other employees were blacklisted.

Türkiye'den F-16 talebi... 'ABD'ye başvuru yapıldı'

Reuters, savunma sanayi kaynaklarına dayandırarak verdiği haberinde, Türkiye’nin ABD'den 40 adet F-16 savaş uçağı ve mevcut savaş

www.veryansintv.com

 

[Elaser]

~4 Billion for 40 Aircrafts

1-2 Billion for 80 packages.

If other goodies included (AIM-120D, Legion Pods) maybe another 1 Billion for those.

5-8 Billion Dollars in the end.

"NTV ise talep edilen uçaklar ve modernizasyon kitlerinin değerinin 10 milyar dolar civarında olduğunu belirtiyor."

"NTV, on the other hand, states that the demanded aircraft and modernization kits are worth around 10 billion dollars."

Türkiye'den ABD'ye F-16 Talebi | SavunmaSanayiST

Türkiye, Amerika Birleşik Devletleri'nden 40 adet F-16 satın almak için başvuru yaptı. Teklifte, 80 adet F-16 için modernizasyon kiti tedarik edilmesi de var

www.savunmasanayist.com

Morocco pays 985 million dollars for 23 upgraded f-16 and 3.787 billion dollars for 25 f-16 block 70...

Turkey might pay more than 9 billion dollars...

 

[Trakya_forever]

How much did it cost for Greece? (84 upgrade to Viper). Is there any news about it? We have the same number (80). It should be close.

 

[Manomed]

We should Get the vipers our air force aint gonna use breads to fly against rafales. If anyone here against it tell this to the air force lol

 

[Vaggos]

How much did it cost for Greece? (84 upgrade to Viper). Is there any news about it? We have the same number (80). It should be close.

The cost for the upgrade of 85 aircrafts was 1,5 billion $ (2018)

 

[Trakya_forever]

The cost for the upgrade of 85 aircrafts was 1,5 billion $ (2018)

Thanks for the answer. 40 new+ 80 Viper mod. will be nearly 6 billion I think. Of course the request is accepted ( a chance in a million)

 

[Cenkcnk]

If we can get these vipers, will we able to use our upcoming aam's? Or they are only for hurjet and tfx?

 

[Ecderha]

Amidst all the disinformation pumped in the media on Turkey US relations, this F-16 deal is by far the most logical solution to boost TurAF’s capabilities till the TFX. Do not underestimate the LM lobby ‘s influence on US legislators, nor the amount involved. If we hit the right buttons, and carry negotiations through qualified state officials (and keep the unqualified, troubled staff off the grid), I see no reason why this deal cannot be realized. The only downside that comes to mind is that RTE may plan to use an initial, negative answer as an excuse to sail tfurther east in a deliberate way. If this is the case, we have already lost a great chance to further enhance collaboration in the field of defence with the west.

I would agree with you if you said that 7 years ago, but usa made some steps to harm Turkiye and we able to see this.
usa already pushed out Turkiye in present days there are not officals up there which did not try the steps which you talking about, those days are over they are in the past.As you don't understand but Turkiye is in state of embargos -> Political,Economy,Military etc.
There are always poeple which were punched and after that they keep dreaming like "okay okay If I keep quiet may be he/bad guy will spare me"

But there is one thing which is not settle yet, it is usa that own bilions of dollers on already made contract for f-35. Therefor Turkiye came or were advised to reapproach the matter with F-16.
So at moment time is critical (I am guessing ) for Turkiye and I think they push this forward and give last chance for usa to fix the things with Turkiye.
This is Again big guesture from Turkiye to usa. We will see what they will react IF they do the same shit thing like " lets do nothing and use the chance to keep things goes and time pass". This also mean rejection and it will be used against usa late on

If not then damage is already BIG enough and I would also keep say it this Damage was and still continue to be driven by usa. Turkiye was patient when usa start this harming plan and this steps did not stoped. Now Turkiye have all rights and will use them against usa as "rules of engagments"

People always blame RTE for this I am not fen of him but at least he shows all on news and people like you and me able to see what is going on.
"When there is a smoke also there is fire too even if you don't see it"

 

[Cypro]

Greece paid around $18 million per upgrade package while Taiwan paid $36 million, it depends on the requirement (Block that is being upgraded) upgrading Block 50 could be $20m while Block 30 could cost $40m. Flyaway cost of fresh built F16 is around $65 to $70 m without extra parts etc. (Of course not more than a f35!)

Upgrade package shouldn't be more than $2 billion. And 2.5 to 3 billion for fresh ones. So minimum cost of this deal is around $4 billion. Upgrading F16s and buying 48 F15 or Eurofighter would be much better of course but it would be at least 2x more expensive plus extra parts and infrastructure.

I am sure F16 deal also includes and intended to secure F16 parts! So even if Turkey bought F35.. this upgrade would likely be requested.

 

[Stuka]

The Greek F16 Modernization.

The F-16V had been upgraded at the Tanagra facility of Hellenic Aerospace Industry (HAI), which is to carry out the modifications to the fleet in a program that was approved by the U.S. government in October 2017. The value is estimated to reach around $1.5 billion.

A successful conclusion of the certification process will result in approval by Lockheed Martin for HAI to proceed with the remainder of the upgrade program, which is expected to be completed by June 2027.

First Upgraded F-16V Fighter For Greece Takes Flight

Greece is upgrading 84 of its F-16s with AESA radar as part of a major overhaul of its fighter force.

www.ainonline.com

Notes:
- Deal signed around 12/2019
- First Upgraded F16 Flies in January 2021
- All 84 Upgraded F16 B70s by 2027

> If The Turkish Request gets approved by the end of 2021 that would mean Upgrades until 2029

---

The Taiwanese F16 Purchase

66 new fighter jets to arrive in Taiwan by 2026 | Taiwan News | 2019-11-12 11:39:00

Washington's US$8 billion sale of F16vs to Taiwan riled China.Premier Su Tseng-chang reported on the budget for Taiwan's acquisition of 66 F-16V fighter jets at the Legislative Yuan Tuesday morning. | 2019-11-12 11:39:00

www.taiwannews.com.tw

Notes:
- Purchase August 2020
- Arrival from 2024 onwards
- Completed by 2026

> If the Turkish order gets approved that would mean first batches 2026 and complete by 2028.

 

[TheInsider]

The US will probably reject this. This deal is created so that the US will be the one to sever the ties. We asked for 40 new Vipers, 80 viper upgrades (block 50+ fighters and youngest block50s) national weapons, and payload integration capability on the block 70(something like a Turkish Viper). Block 30s,40s, and oldest 50s will undergo Ozgur mod in that order. Only 30 years old or older fighters can get Ozgur mod(lawfully) due to deals signed under F-16 programs. I have confirmed this.

TR-Russia weapons and defense industry partnership package that is worth 25 billion$(we won't directly pay all of this, agreements under the deal can create this amount of trade volume) includes the delivery of the second squadron of S-400 system with ToT, purchase, and co-production of S-500, purchase of Su-57 aircraft for TurAF, collaboration on jet engines, shipbuilding, space rockets, and nuclear energy (possible construction of a second nuclear plant).

Those are the details you won't hear anywhere else. One of the two will be signed. If the US rejects the Turkish offer this will be the tipping point. If the US accepts the game will go on for another round.

 

[Quasar]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1446375737280376834

There is a new rumour/info. According to Yusuf Akbaba "Turkey's request is not new. They requested for F15s/F18s as well. However, the US responded only F16 request."

If the US denies the request, we will go our separate ways. On the other hand, if they accept it, it will be a clear victory for Erdoğan, but not Turkey, over Greek, Armenian etc. lobies. He will advertise this for a long time.

On the other hand, 40+80+37 ( Block 30 Özgür + Aselsan AESA) in total 157 F16 Block 70 will be a good power for Turkey with the support of AKINCI/ MIUS and of course other 120 F16s till the MMU/TFX.

-Guess this is the most logical context and explanation for what has been going on for a while ! The need for a Stop gap solution for our Air Force was obvious. Since F 16V news is surfaced now, it is safe to assume that most probably it is almost an agreed and done deal under normal circumstances I guess.

-instead of numbers what we should be more interested in IMO is the details i.e weapons both air to air and air to ground, pods or our rights to integrate our own weapons and systems(without going through side ways) . Feeding our oversized F - 16 invontary should be guaranteed. Further, I am glad that TAI's F 16 production line will re-opned and will be busy again. realisticly speaking, F 16V is the fastest solution for us.

-Unfortuantly F 18 and more unfortuantly F 15 is a pipe dream.

-Eurofighter eventhough with a bit cured limited availability / clear state rate problems, could be a good choice but still would not provide any solution for the future of our 230+ F 16s

-Frankly speaking , SAAB JAS 39 GRIPEN is not offering anything crazy extra compared to F 16V. though GRIPEN may have an edge on maneuverability and rate of climb but the same thing with Eurofighter no solution for the future of our 230+ F 16s

-Any Russian plane is even more than a pipe dream from every possible aspect and rediculous (forget everything just as an example even Russians themselves are having difficulty in suppling their own air force with new aircrafts with substanial numbers they are even discussing to merge sukhoi and mig because of economical and all sorts of problems in their aero space industry) just a footnote ,Long dead PAKFA with India (historically the top Russian arms importer) is a good example of what Russians understand from cooperation and ToT i.e milking you

 

[Indos]

I believe US administration will accept the deal

 

[Saithan]

I keep dreaming that we develop nuclear warheads and capability to use them. And just like India and Pakistan actually test them and reveal them.

Once you've revealed nuclear capability no one is going to fucking attack you. You use that to your advantage in any scenarion. You think US and Russia are not shooting down each others assets because they can't. Not it's because of the repercussions.

Use that and mass production of MAM and TB2 etc. to rape YPG day and night in Northern Syria. Do as you like kill 2000-3000 thousand and as many vehicles weekly and they'll back off.

If they dare attack our assets we'll attack their assets, and they know that.

I'd definitely take the whole of Qamisli area with fertail soil and such. Cut off from Iraq.

 

[Knowledgeseeker]

TR-Russia weapons and defense industry partnership package that is worth 25 billion$(we won't directly pay all of this, agreements under the deal can create this amount of trade volume) includes the delivery of the second squadron of S-400 system with ToT, purchase, and co-production of S-500, purchase of Su-57 aircraft for TurAF, collaboration on jet engines, shipbuilding, space rockets, and nuclear energy (possible construction of a second nuclear plant).

Where did you get the information about the tr-russia package deal?

 

[Fighter_35]

S-400 defenders can come and comment on this issues maybe ,hah!!

We have said countless times, s400 will bring nothing but it will cost us more than imagined!!
We have lost f-35 a and f-35 b , since we were program partner, Greeks would not buy f-35 and would only look for Rafale or other fighters in the market. Now they will buy f-35 .
Additionally, we have lost almost 8-10 billion usd export from f-35 part production.
We also get embargoes , so we can not secure components for many of our own projects .
We shoot at our own leg.

 

[Stuka]

Russia hasn't the best track record with their Equipment's except Air Defense Systems.
As a Nation they have not much to offer I believe.

Perhaps China could be another Source for Military Equipment.

The J16 is a great fighter Jet.

- Indigenous WS-10 Engines
- AESA
- IRST
- Composite
- EW-Pods (J16D)

- Much Larger and Heavier than the F16s as well thus making them Complimentary in the Air Force.

> Hürjet 12 Tons
> F-16 20 Tons
> J-16 33 Tons

 

[TheInsider]

Where did you get the information about the tr-russia package deal?

Via private sources. The deal also includes cooperation on nuclear submarines under the shipbuilding tag. My source added that Erdogan is determined to sign the deal if the US rejects the Turkish F-16 deal. If given green light, the delivery of the second squadron of S-400 will happen in the short term. Other items might follow in the mid and long term as only the second squadron of S-400 is a concrete order and S-500 is a continuation of the S-400 project, other items are still not concrete. Russia also offers Egyptian fighters for a very good price as it seems like Egypt can't order the delivery of those. A tender for a fighter jet might be opened to see who places bids.

 

[AWP]

Via private sources. The deal also includes cooperation on nuclear submarines under the shipbuilding tag

as I predicted , turkey will produce its own nuclear attack submarine with the ability to launch VLS hypersonic or cruise missile .

congrats in advance guys