TR Artillery Systems & Projects

Nilgiri

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Interested members here can use quote arrow to follow/join discussion I just started on K9A2 autoloader and artillery in general in the IN thread:

I'd like to see if there is any interest on having a solid discussion for a while on some of the mechanics and force potentials of artillery (esp SPH), especially the K9 (as it is now and the new upcoming A2 and its design trend internally).

@Baljak I hope can provide some good insight and any details/info.

Let us start with the video release (of A2) I saw some days prior:



Argument no. 1 (that a military buddy commented to me) goes along lines that this is (even considering the positive impression and track record of Korean ground tech and expertise in Mech Engg. and robotics).... that this is fairly complicated system overall and maybe bit sluggish. The components could also be fairly sensitive and maintenance intensive for field use etc.


I lean towards argument no. 2 in that it looks pretty reasonable, especially considering this is probably only way to design it while keeping the autoloader below the turret ring. Pzh2000 concept is also fundamentally the same. What we are seeing is also likely the sustained rate of fire (i.e a round fired every 10 seconds etc constrained more by barrel heating limits than anything else)....rather than a look into its peak burst rate.

IMO, simpler design basically would involve putting everything in the turret itself...like Archer and Auf1 etc.

This however creates a number of problems with ammo replenishment... and IIRC a large reason SP70 project died.

i.e Lifting up ammunition from ground level to turret level essentially means either a dedicated raised loading platform (as used with Archer) or replicating what K9 has done anyway.


My mil bud then expressed his concern a bit more (he was part of PzH2000 vs AS 90 trials in his country):

The opinion of the test crews was that the PzH2000 took some effort to keep working properly, and was sensitive to dust/gravel getting into the machinery. They also commented that the more robust AS 90 was ”conscript friendly”, but from a country with no conscripts. In contrast they felt that the PzH2000 needed to be used by career soldiers to not break down too often, and was from a country who did use conscripts (at the time.)

We then got into a longer (ongoing) convo about some force structure choices within NATO and Europe (mostly on conscription effects on raw manpower availability for system choices)....and also towed artillery....which I might get into a bit later depending how this one goes.

But I wonder if any interested members have some thoughts (direct or indirect to artillery) to share on this....

Given 🇰🇷 K9 platform use in 🇮🇳 and use (via Firtina) in 🇹🇷 , this discussion might be of interest to both Indian and Turkish members as well to participate and follow.


BTW, An interesting reference buddy gave me (which likely betrays his origin) btw is this clip of the Bandkanon 1 which he told me still holds the speed record for (autoloader) burst fire in this realm at 14 rounds in 45 seconds.


@MisterLike @Anmdt @Cabatli_53 @T-123456 @Stuka @Saithan @Gessler @Yasar @what @Bogeyman @Test7 @Joe Shearer @AlphaMike @Madokafc @Vergennes et al.
 

Cabatli_TR

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PANTER Howitzers in the Turkish Armed Forces inventory will be truck-mounted. ASELSAN signed a contract for the PANTER Truck Mounted Howitzer.

Within the scope of modernization, PANTER Howitzers will gain new capabilities and be mobilized by being mounted on an 8×8 Tactical Wheeled Vehicle. In this context, ASELSAN; Equipped with a renewed howitzer servo system, electronic units, hydraulic system and user interface, it brought Digital Communication, Technical Fire Management, Ballistic Calculation (NABK), Initial Speed Management capability and integrated ADOP-2000 Fire Support Automation System to the howitzer system.

 

Khagan1923

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PANTER Howitzers in the Turkish Armed Forces inventory will be truck-mounted. ASELSAN signed a contract for the PANTER Truck Mounted Howitzer.

Within the scope of modernization, PANTER Howitzers will gain new capabilities and be mobilized by being mounted on an 8×8 Tactical Wheeled Vehicle. In this context, ASELSAN; Equipped with a renewed howitzer servo system, electronic units, hydraulic system and user interface, it brought Digital Communication, Technical Fire Management, Ballistic Calculation (NABK), Initial Speed Management capability and integrated ADOP-2000 Fire Support Automation System to the howitzer system.

Took long enough. Guess the results in the Ukrainian War drive TSK to finally order truck mounted howitzers.
 

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PANTER Howitzers in the Turkish Armed Forces inventory will be truck-mounted. ASELSAN signed a contract for the PANTER Truck Mounted Howitzer.

Within the scope of modernization, PANTER Howitzers will gain new capabilities and be mobilized by being mounted on an 8×8 Tactical Wheeled Vehicle. In this context, ASELSAN; Equipped with a renewed howitzer servo system, electronic units, hydraulic system and user interface, it brought Digital Communication, Technical Fire Management, Ballistic Calculation (NABK), Initial Speed Management capability and integrated ADOP-2000 Fire Support Automation System to the howitzer system.

Why would they do that when TSK already have Firtinas?
 

Yasar_TR

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How many Panter howitzers do we have in inventory?
400 units of panther supposedly delivered.
255 units were the number delivered in 2013. But the total purchase quantity were for 400 units. Although there are no definite delivery records for the remainder 145 units, wiki wand states 400 as the total in inventory.
 
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Fairon

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Why would they do that when TSK already have Firtinas?

It is cheaper to maintain and operate than Fırtına.( It is a tracked vehicle vs wheeled vehicle thing. It is not specific to Fırtına) We allready have the guns, puting them on trucks to increase mobility is the logical step.
 

Ryder

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Why would they do that when TSK already have Firtinas?

This system is cheap and can be taken anywhere.

Firtina is expensive and cant be taken everywhere.

Firtina is a good artillery system but you also need cheap and mass produced ones. Self propelled systems are not cheap.

Artillery systems where the average Turkish soldier can operate and move around is the perfect thing to have.
 
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ROKETSAN promises to start the serial delivery of a guidance kit for 155 and 105 mm caliber shells as of 2023. The kit reduces the deviation margin to 15 meters.

1652307842439.png
 

UkroTurk

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Why would they do that when TSK already have Firtinas?
When you shoot from howitzers, you have very little time until the enemy artillery starts responding you. Today with counter artillery radars it might take just 1 minutes detecting, determination of location. İn 5 minutes you would get artillery shells for response. So you need to dislocate your artillery rapidly.

So, yes Fırtına it can maneuver rapidly but with 5-10 million cost:)



Edit:

IMHO Turkish Land forces need more and more MLRS units. UkraineRussian war shows the importance of MLRS.
 

Hexciter

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Yavuz was first shown on a 6x6 vehicle, but the Asfat - MKE duo is working on integration on an 8x8 vehicle in line with the Turkish Armed Forces’s demands.

It is aimed to increase the range of the system, which has a range of 40 km, to 80 km with the works to be done on the ammunition and weapon system.

 
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Lool

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Yavuz was first shown on a 6x6 vehicle, but the Asfat - MKE duo is working on integration on an 8x8 vehicle in line with the TSK's demands.

It is aimed to increase the range of the system, which has a range of 40 km, to 80 km with the works to be done on the ammunition and weapon system.

Just a quick question, what is the difference between Panter and Yavuz howitzers?
 

guest12

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Just a quick question, what is the difference between Panter and Yavuz howitzers?
This was T-155 Panter


Panter was actually the name of this towed howitzer produced during early 2000s now its became howitzer's name .BTW same 155 MM 52 caliber howitzer also used for T-155 Firtina tracked howitzers.Like other members said there was a flaw found in T-155 Panters after some units produced and production stopped.Last we heard Aselsan was gonna fix this flaw and make T-155 Panter good again but no news ever surfaced again(probabaly they abandoned it).Now MKE putting same howitzer into truck calling it Yavuz.

MKE Yavuz

I dont like MKE Yavuz because its semi-automatic if we are gonna make truck based howitzer we should make it comparable to Archer , fully automatic enclosed turret.

Archer

In fact when first MKE Yavuz news come out Aselsan released an intent to make similar truck howitzer but that one fully closed turret(therefore full automatic).We should go with Aselsan's concept.Be it lowering personel number level or faster response time Archer concept would be superior.Not mention we could steal Archer's export customers.There are many trucked howitzers like Yavuz in arms market but there is only one Archer and Sweden wouldnt sell this system to countries outside Western Europe easily.When we wanna export Yavuz tomorrow it will always defeated by its Chinese counterpart , we are making a huge mistake.

Here found photo on PDF shared by @Hexciter

Aselsan's truck howitzer

as.JPG



 
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Glass🚬

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This was T-155 Panter


Panter was actually the name of this towed howitzer produced during early 2000s now its became howitzer's name .BTW same 155 MM 52 caliber howitzer also used for T-155 Firtina tracked howitzers.Like other members said there was a flaw found in T-155 Panters after some units produced and production stopped.Last we heard Aselsan was gonna fix this flaw and make T-155 Panter good again but no news ever surfaced again(probabaly they abandoned it).Now MKE putting same howitzer into truck calling it Yavuz.

MKE Yavuz

I dont like MKE Yavuz because its semi-automatic if we are gonna make truck based howitzer we should make it comparable to Archer , fully automatic enclosed turret.

Archer

In fact when first MKE Yavuz news come out Aselsan released an intent to make similar truck howitzer but that one fully closed turret(therefore full automatic).We should go with Aselsan's concept.Be it lowering personel number level or faster response time Archer concept would be superior.Not mention we could steal Archer's export customers.There are many trucked howitzers like Yavuz in arms market but there is only one Archer and Sweden wouldnt sell this system to countries outside Western Europe easily.When we wanna export Yavuz tomorrow it will always defeated by its Chinese counterpart , we are making a huge mistake.

Here found photo on PDF shared by @Hexciter

Aselsan's truck howitzer

View attachment 43919



this concept looks amazing!
 
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