TR Turkish History

GoatsMilk

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Basically chaos during Abdulhamid II's time and it continued under his successors.

But ww1 was inevitable we could have stayed neutral as we could but the Russians, British and the French have already made plans for our dismemberment. By the time ww1 happened we were isolated. Even if we kept neutral the geopolitical arena was changing against our wishes.

Especially Russian ambitions cant be ignored. Either we will wait the war to finish and have the British, French and Russians go after us or at least try to join the war and try to win it or at least get terms favourable to the Ottoman Empire.

In the end the empire collapsed. 600 year empire closed for good. Its actually going to be 100 years since the Ottoman Empire collapsed as they completely collapsed in 1922-1923. Well it collapsed after ww1 was just a dead man walking at this point as the Allies occupied the capital.

Crushing defeats and massive instability under his reign. He was basically the final nail in the coffin and the young Turk movement was the last roll of the dice. Both were ultimately disasters in the end.

Under Abdulhamid reign her are some failures, just so the ignorant kurdish political islamists can understand what they have been brainwashed to believe.

"Abdul Hamid's biggest fear, near dissolution, was realized with the Russian declaration of war on 24 April 1877. In that conflict, the Ottoman Empire fought without help from European allies. Russian chancellor Prince Gorchakov had effectively purchased Austrian neutrality with the Reichstadt Agreement by that time. The British Empire, though still fearing the Russian threat to the British presence in India, did not involve itself in the conflict because of public opinion against the Ottomans, following reports of Ottoman brutality in putting down the Bulgarian uprising. The Russian victory was quickly realized; the conflict ended in February 1878. The Treaty of San Stefano, signed at the end of the war, imposed harsh terms: the Ottoman Empire gave independence to Romania, Serbia, and Montenegro; it granted autonomy to Bulgaria; instituted reforms in Bosnia and Herzegovina; and ceded parts of Dobrudzha to Romania and parts of Armenia to Russia, which was also paid an enormous indemnity. After the war with Russia, Abdul Hamid suspended the constitution in February 1878 and dismissed the parliament after its solitary meeting in March 1877. For the next three decades, the Ottoman Empire was ruled by Abdulhamid from Yıldız Palace.[1]"

After that failure Abdul turns the Ottoman state into a complete dictatorship for the next 30 years. Something i feel these islamists are pushing for today, to have an islamist dictatorship in which corrupt rule over them.

Then the failure due to his weak rule and insecurity takes the Ottoman navy, which at that point was the 3rd largest in the world and disbands it. Leading to over sea territorial loses.

"Abdul Hamid's distrust for the reformist admirals of the Ottoman Navy (whom he suspected of plotting against him and trying to bring back the 1876 constitution) and his subsequent decision to lock the Ottoman fleet (which ranked as the 3rd largest fleet in the world during the reign of his predecessor Abdul Aziz) inside the Golden Horn caused the loss of Ottoman overseas territories and islands in North Africa, the Mediterranean Sea, and the Aegean Sea during and after his reign."

Then the coward seeking protection and favourable terms from western powers cedes Ottoman financial autonomy to Christian powers. Mashallah Muslims how ignorant Allah has made you all.

"Financial embarrassments forced him to consent to foreign control over the Ottoman national debt. In a decree issued in December 1881, a large portion of the empire's revenues were handed over to the Public Debt Administration for the benefit of (mostly foreign) bondholders."

Bulgaria becoming a problem for the Ottomans occurred to Abdul failures in war. The entire Ottoman balkans got lit up because of Abduls shitty leadership.

"The union in 1885 of Bulgaria with Eastern Rumelia was another blow to the Empire. The creation of an independent and powerful Bulgaria was viewed as a serious threat to the Ottoman Empire. For many years Abdul Hamid had to deal with Bulgaria in a way that did not antagonize either Russian or German wishes. There were also key problems regarding the Albanian question resulting from the Albanian League of Prizren and with the Greek and Montenegrin frontiers where the European powers were determined that the decisions of the Berlin Congress should be carried into effect".

Another example of failed politics, when even getting a rare victory of the battlefield the Ottomans still lost at the table.

Crete was granted 'extended privileges', but these did not satisfy the population, which sought unification with Greece. In early 1897 a Greek expedition sailed to Crete to overthrow Ottoman rule on the island. This act was followed by war, in which the Ottoman Empire defeated Greece (see the Greco-Turkish War (1897)); however as a result of the Treaty of Constantinople, Crete was taken over en depot by the United Kingdom, France, and Russia. Prince George of Greece was appointed as ruler and Crete was effectively lost to the Ottoman Empire.[1] The ʿAmmiyya, a revolt in 1889–90 among Druze and other Syrians against excesses of the local sheikhs, similarly led to capitulation to the rebels' demands, as well as concessions to Belgian and French companies to provide Beirut and Damascus with a railroad between them.

Abdul was just a european shill, he was even ordering muslims across the globe to put their weapons down and accept Christian rule and oppression.

"
Sultan Abdul Hamid II, after being approached by American minister to Turkey, Oscar Straus, sent a letter to the Moros of the Sulu Sultanate telling them not to resist American takeover and to cooperate with the Americans at the start of the Moro Rebellion. The Sulu Moros complied with the order.

John Hay, the American Secretary of State, asked Straus in 1898 to approach Sultan Abdul Hamid II to request that the Sultan (who was also Caliph) write a letter to the Moro Sulu Muslims of the Sulu Sultanate in the Philippines telling them to submit to American suzerainty and American military rule. The Sultan obliged them and wrote the letter, which was sent to Sulu via Mecca where two Sulu chiefs brought it home to Sulu, and it was successful, since the "Sulu Mohammedans ... refused to join the insurrectionists and had placed themselves under the control of our army, thereby recognizing American sovereignty."[27] The Ottoman Sultan used his position as caliph to order the Sulu Sultan not to resist and not fight the Americans when they became subject to American control.[28] President McKinley did not mention Turkey's role in the pacification of the Sulu Moros in his address to the first session of the Fifty-sixth Congress in December 1899, since the agreement with the Sultan of Sulu was not submitted to the Senate until 18 December.[29] Despite Sultan Abdul Hamid's "pan-Islamic" ideology, he readily acceded to a request by Straus for help in telling the Sulu Muslims to not resist America since he felt no need to cause hostilities between the West and Muslims.[30] Collaboration between the American military and Sulu sultanate was due to the Sulu Sultan being persuaded by the Ottoman Sultan.[31] John P. Finley wrote that:

After due consideration of these facts, the Sultan, as Caliph caused a message to be sent to the Mohammedans of the Philippine Islands forbidding them to enter into any hostilities against the Americans, inasmuch as no interference with their religion would be allowed under American rule. As the Moros have never asked more than that, it is not surprising, that they refused all overtures made, by Aguinaldo's agents, at the time of the Filipino insurrection. President McKinley sent a personal letter of thanks to Mr. Straus for the excellent work he had done, and said, its accomplishment had saved the United States at least twenty thousand troops in the field.[32][33]
Abdul Hamid in his position as Caliph was approached by the Americans to help them deal with Muslims during their war in the Philippines,[34] and the Muslim people of the area obeyed the order sent by Abdul Hamid to help the Americans.[35][36][37]

The Bates Treaty, which the Americans had signed with the Moro Sulu Sultanate and which guaranteed the Sultanate's autonomy in its internal affairs and governance, was then violated by the Americans, who then invaded Moroland,[38] causing the Moro Rebellion to break out in 1904 with war raging between the Americans and Moro Muslims and atrocities committed against Moro Muslim women and children, such as the Moro Crater Massacre."

Abdulhamid was a compete unmitigated failure! Not only did the he turn the Ottoman empire upside down but he basically put it in a place where it was almost guaranteed it would not survive another 50 years.

Whether young Turks were a masonic movement or not has nothing to do with Adbul being a total failure! To think this guy stated that the Ottomans were untouchable under his reign, while under his reign the entire Ottoman empire was set on fire.

so so ignorant, so foolish.
 

Ryder

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You have to remember why the 93 harbi happened.

Ottomans crushed the Bulgarian rebels and were whopping Serbia's ass while the war against Montenegro became a stalemate.

Ottomans crushed Russia proxies with brutal methods and the Russians cried about some bs massacre which led to the 1877-1878 Russo-Turkish war.

Russia has tried numerous times to weaken the Ottoman Empire with use of using Greeks, Serbs and Bulgarians against and everytime their useful idiots got crushed it led to Russia intervening against us.

Ottoman Empire lost in the end this led to the Armenians believing they can try the same shit to get Russia to intervene.

Armenians even once tried to assasinate Abdulhamid II. The problem was Abdulhamid II was too lenient regardless of external or internal enemies that was my biggest criticism of him.

Even the so called Muslims rebelled against us. Dont believe in that bs of Albanians and Bosnians being loyal.

Albanians dont forget are the ones who sold out Selanik. We had 50k troops and our Albanian officers all surrendered like pussies.

While a 10k Ottoman army led by a Turk withstanding a siege against 50 to 100k Bulgarian amd Serb troops who laid siege to Edirne.

Dont forget in the Balkan wars alot of the land we lost we surrendered without firing a bullet.

Who led these armies? They were all Albanians as usual.

Dont forget the 1980s military coup was led by an Albanian.

In the end us Turks were only ones loyal to the empire in the end tok bad the empire has forgotten that was too busy promoting non Turks to the top. Not just the Ottomans every Turkic Empire did this and at the end they all collapsed.

Dont forget Atilla the Hun got killed by his Roman wife.

Every lesson is here for us to learn. I think right now the power of missiles, submarines and destroyers what will defend Mavi vatan and not petty bs political drama.

Rigbt now we have to learn our lessons from the past and not repeat them.
 

GoatsMilk

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You have to remember why the 93 harbi happened.

Ottomans crushed the Bulgarian rebels and were whopping Serbia's ass while the war against Montenegro became a stalemate.

Ottomans crushed Russia proxies with brutal methods and the Russians cried about some bs massacre which led to the 1877-1878 Russo-Turkish war.

Russia has tried numerous times to weaken the Ottoman Empire with use of using Greeks, Serbs and Bulgarians against and everytime their useful idiots got crushed it led to Russia intervening against us.

Ottoman Empire lost in the end this led to the Armenians believing they can try the same shit to get Russia to intervene.

Armenians even once tried to assasinate Abdulhamid II. The problem was Abdulhamid II was too lenient regardless of external or internal enemies that was my biggest criticism of him.

Even the so called Muslims rebelled against us. Dont believe in that bs of Albanians and Bosnians being loyal.

Albanians dont forget are the ones who sold out Selanik. We had 50k troops and our Albanian officers all surrendered like pussies.

While a 10k Ottoman army led by a Turk withstanding a siege against 50 to 100k Bulgarian amd Serb troops who laid siege to Edirne.

Dont forget in the Balkan wars alot of the land we lost we surrendered without firing a bullet.

Who led these armies? They were all Albanians as usual.

Dont forget the 1980s military coup was led by an Albanian.

In the end us Turks were only ones loyal to the empire in the end tok bad the empire has forgotten that was too busy promoting non Turks to the top. Not just the Ottomans every Turkic Empire did this and at the end they all collapsed.

Dont forget Atilla the Hun got killed by his Roman wife.

Every lesson is here for us to learn. I think right now the power of missiles, submarines and destroyers what will defend Mavi vatan and not petty bs political drama.

Rigbt now we have to learn our lessons from the past and not repeat them.

Your mindset is not the problem, its reasonable and balanced. Your the kind of guy if one day presented with information that runs counter to what you thought but see it as correct you will change course.

My issue is with this bullshit pseudo islamist narrative that infects minority minds that has been pushed by negative elements within the Turkish state that creates a fake history that everything was perfect until the Turkish nationalists arrived. This allows minorities with racist thoughts towards their "Turkish masters" to constantly insult and talk shit about the Turkish people. They get to hide behind the religion. Islam is not about being a bitch, its about having honour and integrity.

These people have no respect for the Turks or Turkey despite the Turks doing so much for the religion, no other people shed as much blood in the name of Islam as the Turks have done. Instead of kissing our feet they want to educate us on our history with their ignorant minds.

As for the middle eastern origin people within Turkey, remember the white Christian world made the Ottoman Turks several offers to join them and become Christian. Instead of fighting the most powerful continent on earth for a thousand years in the name of Islam we could have been its leader. Remember that the Turks could have taken the easy path many times and never did. Compare that with all the Muslim insurrections against the Turks throughout history.

Also worth pointing out that these ideas that everything was good until the Turkish nationalists came about is a western ploy to be used a later date to antognise the minorities of Turkey to be used against the Turkish state.

The British used Islam to incite the arabs against the Turks, by claiming that the Ottomans were too chilled out too secular to lead Islam. Kurds in Turkey who are being brainwashed by this psuedo islamist bullshit one day will be told by the americans/russians/europeans that everything used to be good, its the Turks who are to blame for everything. Those evil secular minded Turks are the reason you are failing, thats what the devil will whisper into your ears.

In the end you all got taken over by western power.
 
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Ryder

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Your mindset is not the problem, its reasonable and balanced. Your the kind of guy if one day presented with information that runs counter to what you thought but see it as correct you will change course.

My issue is with this bullshit pseudo islamist narrative that infects minority minds that has been pushed by negative elements within the Turkish state that creates a fake history that everything was perfect until the Turkish nationalists arrived. This allows minorities with racist thoughts towards their "Turkish masters" to constantly insult and talk shit about the Turkish people. They get to hide behind the religion. Islam is not about being a bitch, its about having honour and integrity.

These people have no respect for the Turks or Turkey despite the Turks doing so much for the religion, no other people shed as much blood in the name of Islam as the Turks have done. Instead of kissing our feet they want to educate us on our history with their ignorant minds.

As for the middle eastern origin people within Turkey, remember the white Christian world made the Ottoman Turks several offers to join them and become Christian. Instead of fighting the most powerful continent on earth for a thousand years in the name of Islam we could have been its leader. Remember that the Turks could have taken the easy path many times and never did. Compare that with all the Muslim insurrections against the Turks throughout history.

Also worth pointing out that these ideas that everything was good until the Turkish nationalists came about is a western ploy to be used a later date to antognise the minorities of Turkey to be used against the Turkish state.

The British used Islam to incite the arabs against the Turks, by claiming that the Ottomans were too chilled out too secular to lead Islam. Kurds in Turkey who are being brainwashed by this psuedo islamist bullshit one day will be told by the americans/russians/europeans that everything used to be good, its the Turks who are to blame for everything. Those evil secular minded Turks are the reason you are failing, thats what the devil will whisper into your ears.

In the end you all got taken over by western power.

What are minorities complaining about anyway?

Most of them lived in privledge lives under the Ottoman Empire.

Until we slowly took away their priviledges of being an Aga they rebelled and now they cry of oppression.

Turkiye barely does nothing to do its minorities but they all go and cry about nonexistent oppression to the West.

Turks are the majority of Turkiye you still have non Turks living there and acting racist towards the majority.

Look how they all formed lobby groups and became politicians like that Cem Ozdemir that piece of shit who comes from a Circassian family.

I feel like Turka need to tell people to shut the f up.

Seriously in Australia even if its liberal they dont tolerate this shit of you cuss out the local people. They will tell you f off and go find another country.

Turkiye especially the politicians have a habit of bending their knees to the minorities. Every election that comes you have politicians visiting Patriach of Istanbul or Diyanet.

There is a problem everybody is becoming cucks. Not one strong leader.

I guess they can pat themselves for not being "racist".

Dont forget guys while kilictaroglu is being best buddies with hdp, Mr Erdogan apologised to the Greeks about the Istanbul pogrom and called Turks as fascists when the Greeks started it by attacking local Turks and bragging about they bombed Ataturks home.
 

Anastasius

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People, maybe just remember - we have Albanians, Bosnians, Afghans, Algerians, etc, on this board right now who are actually fairly supportive of Turkey. Might not be my place to say but maybe it's worth not just getting racist every time you feel like blaming somebody for bad things in Turkey's history. Ravenman might be of Zaza origin whose politics I find, eh, somewhat objectionable but I don't see any indication that he doesn't care for Turkey any less than the rest of you.

I apologize but I had to get this off my chest since I've seen these kinds of digs at people's "loyalty" thrown around here before and it really gnaws at me. Call out treacherous weasels, by all means, but don't make the mistake of tossing everyone in the same basket.
 

GoatsMilk

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People, maybe just remember - we have Albanians, Bosnians, Afghans, Algerians, etc, on this board right now who are actually fairly supportive of Turkey. Might not be my place to say but maybe it's worth not just getting racist every time you feel like blaming somebody for bad things in Turkey's history. Ravenman might be of Zaza origin whose politics I find, eh, somewhat objectionable but I don't see any indication that he doesn't care for Turkey any less than the rest of you.

I apologize but I had to get this off my chest since I've seen these kinds of digs at people's "loyalty" thrown around here before and it really gnaws at me. Call out treacherous weasels, by all means, but don't make the mistake of tossing everyone in the same basket.

In Turkey under the so called islamists an incremental narrative has been building since AK party came to power that Turks are to blame for everything. We even had close associates of erdogan given TV shows where they would go on TV and claim it would have been better had the greeks won the independence war. The Muslims would have suffered less had the Turks been defeated and the Christian powers succeeded. Let that sink in that the so called islamists of non-Turk ethnicity within the republic of Turkey promoting the idea that the Turks winning their independence war was bad for Islam.

Its not a joke what's going on in Turkey and how the minorities of Turkey are being fooled, just like they have been fooled into thinking the absolute failure that is abdulhamid was something special. He was a weak, insecure and incompetent ruler who really put the final nail in the coffin of the Ottoman empire.

This mindset was also the mindset that was making Turkey capitulate to the armenians, erdogan and gul wanted to open the border while they had close advisors promoting armenian lies against Turkey within daily sabah.

Turkish people have had enough of this nonsense.
 
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Ryder

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In Turkey under the so called islamists an incremental narrative has been building since AK party came to power that Turks are to blame for everything. We even had close associates of erdogan given TV shows where they would go on TV and claim it would have been better had the greeks won the independence war. The Muslims would have suffered less had the Turks been defeated and the Christian powers succeeded. Let that sink in that the so called islamists of non-Turk ethnicity within the republic of Turkey promoting the idea that the Turks winning their independence war was bad for Islam.

Its not a joke what's going on in Turkey and how the minorities of Turkey are being fooled, just like they have been fooled into thinking the absolute failure that is abdulhamid was something special. He was a weak, insecure and incompetent ruler who really put the final nail in the coffin of the Ottoman empire.

This mindset was also the mindset that was making Turkey capitulate to the armenians, erdogan and gul wanted to open the border while they had close advisors promoting armenian lies against Turkey within daily sabah.

Turkish people have had enough of this nonsense.

I believe Abdulhamid II has his good and bad.

I leave it to that he did many good things while at the same time he did many things which were bad and costed the empire in the long run. I studied history so I do my best to be neutral. I used to be a Abdulhamid II fanboy.

My criticism is also for his sucessors like Enver, Jemal and Talaat.

I dont believe in the mythologising of Abdulhamid II also dont believe Erdogan is like him. If anybody studied history many would know that both are not the same.

Abdulhamid II was given the task of trying to overturn the fortunes of the empire. He had a big task to fullfill. Many observors also talked about how he was a humble and a modest man he was not the man like that show Payithat shows him.

While Erdogan is just a loud mouth. Erdogan has the technology and economy while Abdulhamid II was given a empire that was decaying.

They Maybe similar to be honest even Erdogan is compared to Ataturk a lot of the times.

Erdogan has always used past leaders to bolsters his image regardless if its the Seljuks, Ottomans and Ataturk.
 

Timuçin

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20. yüzyıldan beri şu coğrafyada çıkan bütün savaşların, katliamların ve insanlık suçlarının bir numaralı suçlusu rusyadır.
afganistanın 44 yıldır götü başı toparlayamamasının sebebi sovyet işgalidir.
filistin direnişi marjinalize edildiyse sebebi sovyetlerdir.
gürcistanda bugün iki proxy devlet kuruluysa sebebi rusyadır.
çeçenistan bağımsızken bahaneyle işgale uğrayıp adı sanı yerle bir edildiyse sebebi rusyadır hatta selefi islamcıları kasıtlı olarak kafkasyaya sokup casus belli yaratan da rusyadır.
karabağ savaşını fiştekleyen de rusyadır, bütün pogrom ve katliamların sorumlusu rusyadır, kgbdir, omondur. ikinci savaşta kasıtlı olarak kendi uçağını düşürtüp hemen peşine masazır gölünü vb bombalayarak savaşı durdurtan ve beleşe kendi askerlerini araya sokan da rusyadır.
savaş suçlularını tecavüzcüleri katilleri bir araya toplayıp sivil halkın üzerine salan da rusyadır.
belarus bugün kimliksiz bir diktatörlük haline geldiyse sebebi rusyadır.
kazakistan iki kez kıtlık geçirip 40 milyon yerine 12 milyon kazağa sahiplik yapıyorsa ve üç günde anası ağlıyorsa sebebi rusyadır.
doğu türkistandakilerin bu kadar ezilmesinin sebebi de birincil olarak rusyadır.
suriyede bugün hala kıytırıktan bile olsa barış sağlanamadıysa ve hala apartheid yönetimi devam ediyorsa sebebi rusyadır. ayrıca ne çabuk unuttunuz şehit olan 34 askerimizi amına koyduğumun avrasyacıları?
bugün ermenistan devleti çevresinden kopuk ve yıkık yadigar halde ayakta durmaya çalışıyorsa sebebi yine 1828-29da rusların kandırarak erzurum ağrı gibi yerlerden kaçırıp getirdiği ermeniler. yine senaryo sorumlusu ruslar yani
iranı kaç kez işgal etti bu adamlar, iranın kuzeyinde kıtlıktan o kadar insan ölmesine sebep veren de ruslar.
rusun elinin bulaştığı taştan bile kan fışkırıyor, bunları adam yerine koyanın doğuranını sikiyim
 

Timuçin

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ban yemeden önce okuyan okussun
20. yüzyıldan beri şu coğrafyada çıkan bütün savaşların, katliamların ve insanlık suçlarının bir numaralı suçlusu rusyadır.
afganistanın 44 yıldır götü başı toparlayamamasının sebebi sovyet işgalidir.
filistin direnişi marjinalize edildiyse sebebi sovyetlerdir.
gürcistanda bugün iki proxy devlet kuruluysa sebebi rusyadır.
çeçenistan bağımsızken bahaneyle işgale uğrayıp adı sanı yerle bir edildiyse sebebi rusyadır hatta selefi islamcıları kasıtlı olarak kafkasyaya sokup casus belli yaratan da rusyadır.
karabağ savaşını fiştekleyen de rusyadır, bütün pogrom ve katliamların sorumlusu rusyadır, kgbdir, omondur. ikinci savaşta kasıtlı olarak kendi uçağını düşürtüp hemen peşine masazır gölünü vb bombalayarak savaşı durdurtan ve beleşe kendi askerlerini araya sokan da rusyadır.
savaş suçlularını tecavüzcüleri katilleri bir araya toplayıp sivil halkın üzerine salan da rusyadır.
belarus bugün kimliksiz bir diktatörlük haline geldiyse sebebi rusyadır.
kazakistan iki kez kıtlık geçirip 40 milyon yerine 12 milyon kazağa sahiplik yapıyorsa ve üç günde anası ağlıyorsa sebebi rusyadır.
doğu türkistandakilerin bu kadar ezilmesinin sebebi de birincil olarak rusyadır.
suriyede bugün hala kıytırıktan bile olsa barış sağlanamadıysa ve hala apartheid yönetimi devam ediyorsa sebebi rusyadır. ayrıca ne çabuk unuttunuz şehit olan 34 askerimizi amına koyduğumun avrasyacıları?
bugün ermenistan devleti çevresinden kopuk ve yıkık yadigar halde ayakta durmaya çalışıyorsa sebebi yine 1828-29da rusların kandırarak erzurum ağrı gibi yerlerden kaçırıp getirdiği ermeniler. yine senaryo sorumlusu ruslar yani
iranı kaç kez işgal etti bu adamlar, iranın kuzeyinde kıtlıktan o kadar insan ölmesine sebep veren de ruslar.
rusun elinin bulaştığı taştan bile kan fışkırıyor,
 

Ryder

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Ataturk banned alcohol during the turkish independance war. It was pragmatic but it was also done to keep morale high and cohesion also to stop soldiers from getting drunk.
 

Ryder

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The Mongol invasions not just caused a refugee crisis and the mass exodus of Turkic peoples into the Middle East it also led to the mass use of Turkic mercs in Muslim armies.

I think the Ottomans were like this before they reached Anatolia they not just settled in different places but they also fought as mercernaries for different Muslim states in the Middle East before making Anatolia their home.

Really reminds me of red dead redemption 2 where Dutch and his gang are fighting for survival or the great trek of Boers who not only settled in hostile lands but also fought against various hostile tribes.
 

Ryder

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It is actually said during Ottoman rule the Serbs actually had to offer their wives to Turkish officials 🤣
 

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