TR Naval Programs

Anmdt

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We are in contact with Zorya Mashproekt for gas turbines too. But there isn’t much chance we will be buying any of their products very soon.
I told it earlier the contact with Zorya is too weak and they still don't value importance of Turkish market an the foreign market that Turkish Shipyards may influence in 2022. There are things to be announced.
Have we secured the propulsion system for the Milgems ?

Which candidates did we have (sorry I forgot, LM, MTU...)
LM2500, i am not sure if TEI can catch up with the schedule for the first one but the latter 3 definitely will have TEI made LM2500.
For the MTU and RENK transmission there has been no issues so far.
 

Anmdt

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2.5 months for the RfP term I was expecting up to 2. Will be concluded before than June, this is for sure.

Steel cutting may commence in August-July and Keel laying ceremony maybe held in September as per the tradition.

I have been really tired of telling people the issue was not finance or money, and I-Class tender will be held sooner than we expect.

Finally the RfP is announced, the design is frozen and contracts for 1st I-Class have been concluded.

The bidders should either have a shipyard, or an affiliated shipyard that has carried out design or construction for Naval platforms. Or a design office fulfilling the earlier requirement, may collaborate with a shipyard for the tender.

The possible bidders now;

ASFAT (technically doesn't own the shipyard), with Naval Shipyard
STM (doesn't own a shipyard) with a private shipyard
Dearsan
TAIS, may play the card of simultaneous production or for individuals of the TAIS, or one of them may come forward.
Istanbul Shipyard etc may give a try.

TF-2000s & FAC bidding likely left for 2023, there is still time until the contract design stage and engineering jobs are completed.
Things are different in this bidding process;

In earlier bidding it was going to the private shipyard and this was for sure, STM was definitely excluded, and ASFAT was not on sight.

This time both STM and ASFAT are allowed to be a bidder. Which means ASFAT can benefit from Naval Shipyard and STM will benefit from their own expertise on working multiple shipyards including the foreign ones, thus it is a matter of a proper choice for them.

MSB-DzKK will be lobbying for ASFAT to win, SSB will be lobbying for STM to win
Private Shipyards (All) have already been complaining with the argument; "Companies holding no shipyard, no physical facility shall not be allowed to bid"

The question is whom STM will collaborate with, TAIS? Dearsan? RMK? Istanbul Shipyard? Ada Shipyard?

It will be a bloodshed, i won't be surprised if the decision is delayed, that is why i earlier told April, and now updated it to May/June.
 
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Cabatli_TR

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I heard some rumors that a winner will be announced in April for I class serial production. There is an SSIK (defense industry executive committee ) meeting in April which will be chaired by the president. The last day to get a RfP document is December 31 and the last day to submit a bid is March 15.

If that happens the first steel cut for the second ship might be done as early as june/july/august period and second ship might be delivered by the end of 2024. (1 year for construction+15-18 months for system installation and tests)

Depending on the shipyard selection and capabilities, if the SSB is hasty in the delivery schedule, two ships can be produced at the same time. RMK marine has done this on search and rescue vessels.
RMK is currently producing Ukraine's first Milgem.
Istanbul shipyard has delivered the SIGINT ship and they are probably ready for constructing the frigates now.
The Istanbul military shipyard is currently constructing the Turkish OPV and Pakistani frigate and preparing for first TF2000 destroyer.
Dearsan must also be ready in the same way. They are building many warships for Turkmenistan by welding the blocks in Turkmenistan.
Sedef, partner of TAIS, is probably preparing for the 2nd enlarged LHD- aircraft carrier.

The shipyard, which will receive the I class tender, will leave the 10 TTFAC project to other shipyards or will not enter the tender. With foreign sales, the agenda will be very busy in 2022.


What do you think @Anmdt bro?
 

Anmdt

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Depending on the shipyard selection and capabilities, if the SSB is hasty in the delivery schedule, two ships can be produced at the same time. RMK marine has done this on search and rescue vessels.
RMK is currently producing Ukraine's first Milgem.
Istanbul shipyard has delivered the SIGINT ship and they are probably ready for constructing the frigates now.
The Istanbul military shipyard is currently constructing the Turkish OPV and Pakistani frigate and preparing for first TF2000 destroyer.
Dearsan must also be ready in the same way. They are building many warships for Turkmenistan by welding the blocks in Turkmenistan.

What do you think @Anmdt bro?
Bro Istanbul Shipyard is questionable, earlier they have got the deal because it was awarded to STM and STM has decided to work with them. i am not sure if They can individually submit an offer. STM then, has chosen RMK instead of Istanbul Shipyard for Ukranian Ada Class bu this was entirely a financial decision.

STM will pick a private shipyard, i am not sure who but we will hear or see it soon with some "visits", STM has the upper hand here. And They are the likely choice.

For ASFAT, they will shift AKDG construction (onwards from 3rd hull) to the Izmir Shipyard. They will also launch the PN Milgem this year and construction of the TF-2000 may start in second half of the 2023 in earliest (according to the latest schedule). For now a military shipyards seems to be less-likely because DzKK insists on first TF-2000 being built in a military shipyard and the schedule doesn't allow it, i should also note this ASFAT is very eager.

I know TAIS is interested in both TTFAC (Adik&Sefine) and I-Class (Sefine&Sedef) project to increase chances in export. If they definitely want all 3 by 2025, then TAIS is the only address that can achieve this but it will be costly.

Dearsan has an order (apart from the Nigerian OPV), it is ongoing and including multi-hulls, the slipway is free* (Nigerian OPV will occupy it?) but again SSB would prefer to distribute projects evenly to increase chances in Export, so they are less-likely from this point of view.
 

Saithan

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Bro Istanbul Shipyard is questionable, earlier they have got the deal because it was awarded to STM and STM has decided to work with them. i am not sure if They can individually submit an offer. STM then, has chosen RMK instead of Istanbul Shipyard for Ukranian Ada Class bu this was entirely a financial decision.

STM will pick a private shipyard, i am not sure who but we will hear or see it soon with some "visits", STM has the upper hand here. And They are the likely choice.

For ASFAT, they will shift AKDG construction (onwards from 3rd hull) to the Izmir Shipyard. They will also launch the PN Milgem this year and construction of the TF-2000 may start in second half of the 2023 in earliest (according to the latest schedule). For now a military shipyards seems to be less-likely because DzKK insists on first TF-2000 being built in a military shipyard and the schedule doesn't allow it, i should also note this ASFAT is very eager.

I know TAIS is interested in both TTFAC (Adik&Sefine) and I-Class (Sefine&Sedef) project to increase chances in export. If they definitely want all 3 by 2025, then TAIS is the only address that can achieve this but it will be costly.

Dearsan has an order (apart from the Nigerian OPV), it is ongoing and including multi-hulls, the slipway is free* (Nigerian OPV will occupy it?) but again SSB would prefer to distribute projects evenly to increase chances in Export, so they are less-likely from this point of view.
We're talking about Istif, but do we have any news/update about more Ada classes :) ?
 

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We're talking about Istif, but do we have any news/update about more Ada classes :) ?
It is just 4, for now i am not sure if TN is interested in more Ada Class at the moment (except of the OPV known as AKDG)
 

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Turkey gears up to build 3 new domestic warships​

BY DAILY SABAH​

ISTANBUL DEC 22, 2021 - 4:16 PM GMT+3

The TCG Istanbul (F515) is launched during a ceremony in Istanbul, Turkey, Jan. 23, 2021. (DHA Photo)
The TCG Istanbul (F515) is launched during a ceremony in Istanbul, Turkey, Jan. 23, 2021. (DHA Photo)


Turkey’s top defense industry body announced Wednesday that it will hold a tender for the manufacturing of three new frigates as part of the National Ship (MILGEM) project that has already provided the Turkish Naval Forces with domestically produced combat vessels.

The Presidency of Defense Industries (SSB) said the production rate of the domestically made parts in the new ships will be higher than before.

Ismail Demir, head of the SSB, told Anadolu Agency (AA) that they will continue their efforts to meet the needs of the security forces with the most advanced technologies, with the goal of a "fully independent Turkey in the defense industry."

The defense of the “Blue Homeland,” which Turkey calls the seas surrounding the country, occupies an important place in these efforts, Demir said, as the military moves toward boosting its naval power.

“Our domestic industrial companies have the ability and capability to build ships that have no equivalents around the world at competitive costs. With this strength, we are taking another important step in the MILGEM Project. The tender process for the sixth, seventh and eighth ships has started. The rate of locality will be much higher,” he said.

“We aim to make our ships available to the security forces as soon as possible. Our new ships will include more domestic equipment and weapon systems,” Demir said, adding that the domestic warships will reinforce the navy's stance that “instills trust in friends and fear in the enemy.”

The project entails the building of ships that will perform reconnaissance and surveillance, target detection, identification and recognition, early warning missions, base and port defense, anti-submarine warfare (ASW), surface warfare, air defense warfare, amphibious operations and patrol activities for the Naval Forces Command.

Except for the systems that need further development, improvement or localization, the ships will be equivalent to the fifth ship of MILGEM, the Istanbul Frigate, which is the advanced version of the former corvettes built under the same program.

The bidders for the production must have a domestic shipyard or the design subcontractor must cooperate with a domestic shipyard. For the tender, it will also be required to have conducted or executed a military surface platform design/construction project with the SSB or to be partner of companies that fulfill this condition.
The MILGEM project has so far completed the deliveries of the Ada class corvettes, the first of which was the TCG Heybeliada in 2011, the second was the TCG Büyükada in 2013, the third the TCG Burgazada in 2018 and the fourth ship, the TCG Kınalıada in 2019.

The Istanbul Frigate (F-515), meanwhile, which was produced through close public-private cooperation – as is also the goal for the upcoming period, was launched in January this year.

The TCG Istanbul, which includes different features than the previous four corvettes, is a product of 70% local production.

Turkey is also manufacturing its MILGEM corvettes for the Pakistani Navy as part of previously signed deals, and for the Ukraine, which is said to include a technology transfer.

 

Anmdt

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Main drydock of Istanbul Naval Shipyard is restructured with new bulkheads to divide drydock such that, to allow equipping on multiple hulls at once more efficiently than before.
 

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Naval systems short summary

  • Atmaca Blk1: In low rate production phase. Firing trials of Atmaca with KTJ3200 is in 2022.
  • MDAS VLS: Firing trials of national VLS will commence in 2022
  • Roketsan Levent SeaRam: Up to the last quarter of 2024, Levent with Sungur Blk-2 missiles will be operational
  • Gokdeniz CIWS 35mm: In production
  • MKE 20mm gatling CIWS: Last quarter of 2022
  • MKE 72mm main gun: In service in 2022
  • MKE 127mm main gun: Firing trials in 2023
  • Hisar-Rf Naval SAM: In service in 2022
  • Siper long range Naval SAM (100+km and150+km variant): In service in 2023
  • Akya HW torpedo: In low rate production and trial phase
  • Orka LW torpedo: In service before 2025
  • Torpedo tube development: In service in 2022
  • LFAS sonar: In service in 2023
  • Cenk-S AESA Naval radar: In service in 2022-23
  • Çafrad multi-radar complex for Tf2000: ~2024
  • Multi-static sonar: In development phase
  • Tork anti torpedo torpedo: trainer version in service in 2023
 

Anmdt

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Naval systems short summary

  • Atmaca Blk1: In low rate production phase. Firing trials of Atmaca with KTJ3200 is in 2022.
  • MDAS VLS: Firing trials of national VLS will commence in 2022
  • Roketsan Levent SeaRam: Up to the last quarter of 2024, Levent with Sungur Blk-2 missiles will be operational
  • Gokdeniz CIWS 35mm: In production
  • MKE 20mm gatling CIWS: Last quarter of 2022
  • MKE 72mm main gun: In service in 2022
  • MKE 127mm main gun: Firing trials in 2023
  • Hisar-Rf Naval SAM: In service in 2022
  • Siper long range Naval SAM (100+km and150+km variant): In service in 2023
  • Akya HW torpedo: In low rate production and trial phase
  • Orka LW torpedo: In service before 2025
  • Torpedo tube development: In service in 2022
  • LFAS sonar: In service in 2023
  • Cenk-S AESA Naval radar: In service in 2022-23
  • Çafrad multi-radar complex for Tf2000: ~2024
  • Multi-static sonar suit for Tf2000: In development phase
  • Tork anti torpedo torpedo: trainer version in service in 2023
Bro, TF-2000 sonar development is for the bow mounted low frequency sonar.
Multistatic sonar is for USVs in herd or Mothership (TF-2000, I-Class, Ada class) with USVs. This was told by Armelsan's manager in an interview, later signed in IDEF.

Also;
+ Nazar Laser EW(2022-2023)
+ Nazar - Light Laser EW (2023-2024)
+ Naval High power laser (2024-2025)
 

Cabatli_TR

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Bro, TF-2000 sonar development is for the bow mounted low frequency sonar.
Multistatic sonar is for USVs in herd or Mothership (TF-2000, I-Class, Ada class) with USVs. This was told by Armelsan's manager in an interview, later signed in IDEF.

Also;
+ Nazar Laser EW(2022-2023)
+ Nazar - Light Laser EW (2023-2024)
+ Naval High power laser (2024-2025)

Updated the list bro.
 

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STM
1640601832413.png

1640601852768.png
 

Anmdt

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1640615619926.png

A Quote by Alper Köse, Naval platforms director of SSB Presidency;

"Another example is the SeaRAM (RAM) and Phalanx, two systems that are commonly used on the Naval Platforms. Aselsan have developed a replacement for Phalanx. In addition, ASELSAN, TUBITAK and ROKETSAN is developing SeaRAM replacement point defense system[1]."

"There has been issues with Harpoon, thus ATMACA - a better solution- has been developed. The production (development) activities of the ESSM replacement - Hisar continues[2]."

How shall we interpret [1] & [2];
[1]: ASELSAN, TUBITAK and ROKETSAN consortium is readily developing the Sapan-RAM. The solution emerged in IDEF'21 was rather launcher solution wrapped around the Sapan-RAM missile. Roketsan has uniquely offered Sungur-D capability from launcher, making it a common launcher while Aselsan has uniquely offered an autonomous launcher platform with dedicated Search/Track/Data-link fixed face AESA radar.

[2]: The missile probably differs from the Hisar family and more inherits lines of Siper Block I. The missile have not been assigned with a name yet, thus it emerges as "ESSM - xxx" for the subcomponents that are assigned to different contractors. Such as; Aselsan developing the controller unit for the ESSM "replacement" missile. The stemming point of the launching ESSM from MIDAS is actually this, the missile is not given a name, yet.
 

Saithan

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I believe the US has pretty much cut off Turkey and they're just making use of what we're allowing them to use at this stage. All the while they're building a 2nd solution so to speak. They're bunking up pretty much and preparing for eventualities where they'll have to leave Incirlik.

GC is likely too exposed as a candidate for an airbase for the US. So that kinda leaves GC. And they'll need to enforce their EEZ to cut off Turkey from the Atlantic.
 

Anmdt

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germans also delaying shafts for istif class
Not shafts but shaft brackets. It is happening due to some mismanagement related to customs regulations, probably even related to Brexit or solely UK.
 

HaZZan

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Is it true that Turkey is planning to get rid of its new aircraft carrier in 2022???
 
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Anmdt

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Spanish Foro Naval comes with a strange "news" or article about the possibility of TCG Anadolu sale to Morocco.

@Knowledgeseeker may provide some additional information, especially, at least the source article from MAP. It is not quite possible to sell a highly customized vessel as if it is a land asset. At this point it can be only commissioned and then transferred to a third party after the user (Turkish Navy) strips their own private systems and libraries.


Possibilities;
They are mixing an LST/LCT with the LHD, this might be an export activity.
Or they have signed an agreement for acquiring a new LHD based on Anadolu with Navantia & Sedef consortium.
 
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Knowledgeseeker

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@Knowledgeseeker may provide some additional information, especially, at least the source article from MAP. It is not quite possible to sell a highly customized vessel as if it is a land asset. At this point it can be only commissioned and then transferred to a third party after the user (Turkish Navy) strips their own private systems and libraries.
28 december in spain is considered april fools. Completely fake news.
 

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