TR Turkish Naval Programs

Fighter_35

Committed member
Messages
252
Reactions
289
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
The price for exports is different sometimes we charge double the price for certain products. And we don't build empty Milgem bodies for Ukraine we are building full Milgem bodies without some subsystems.
I know 170 million USD figure for each , with out engines,with out weapons . Additional costs will be added to this price separately,like any Aselsan or havelsan system.
 

TheInsider

Experienced member
Messages
1,809
Reactions
2 6,394
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
That percentage was for the first 4 Milgems where nationalization is lower and weapon and sensor load is a lot better than OPVs. The subsystems and weapons we buy from foreign sources are expensive which makes the hull cost percentage fall down.

Lets give an example. Assume that we have 100 TL to spend.

Milgem Ada class first ship
25 TL for full (high national capability)
25 TL for things like power delivery system, generators, citadel hvac system etc. (Medium national capability)
30 TL for sensor (Medium national capability)
20 TL for weapons (basic national capability)

National contribution percentage %65
Hull percentage is %25 total cost 100TL

Milgem Ada class if we want to build it now
25 TL hull (high national capability)
20 TL for ship subsystems (high national capability)
20 TL for sensors (high national capability)
12 TL for weapons (high national capability)

National contribution percentage %80
Total cost 77 TL Hull percentage %32.5

Milgem Based OPV.
20 TL hull (high national capability)
14 TL for subsystems (high national capability)
8 TL for sensors (high national capability)
4 TL for weapons (high national capability)

National contribution %85
Total cost 46 TL hull percentage %43.5


BTW we gave a price of 300 million $ per ship(1.2 billion in total) to Pakistan for Milgem based frigates(very close to I class specs). Later the price came down when Pakistan decided to modify our first offer and use different weapons and subsystems with separate contracts.


Pakistan MİLGEM Projesi'nin ekonomik büyüklüğüne ilişkin de bilgiler veren Yılmaz, "Yapılacak işin ekonomik büyüklüğü yaklaşık olarak 1 milyar dolar civarında. MİLGEM'lerin fiyatı üzerindeki sistemlere, silahlara göre değişiyor. Bu proje kapsamında Pakistan, elindeki bazı sistemlerden de yararalanacağı için fiyat, normalde başka bir ülkeye satacağımızdan daha düşük. Orijinal konfigürasyonla bunu başka bir ülkeye satıyor olsaydık bir geminin fiyat büyük ihtimalle 300 milyon dolardan aşağı olmayacaktı. Dolayısıyla 4 tanesini 1,2 milyar dolar gibi bir rakam olacaktı." diye konuştu.
 
Last edited:

TheInsider

Experienced member
Messages
1,809
Reactions
2 6,394
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
I know 170 million USD figure for each , with out engines,with out weapons . Additional costs will be added to this price separately,like any Aselsan or havelsan system.
Wrong engines are included. Some weapons are also included. Nearly all of the sensors are included. Besides it is export price.
 

Anmdt

Experienced member
Naval Specialist
Professional
Messages
3,606
Solutions
1
Reactions
16 14,235
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
This is completely wrong. OPV budget was already planned without those subsystems. Those subsystems were optional(FFBNW) from the start. I know it %100 ask around and you will see. No one can construct 2+8 Milgem based OPV with the weapon and sensor load you mentioned without paying a small fortune and we don't have that kind of financial capability. Look at the naval projects that are running in parallel do you think we have 2+ billion extra navy budget to throw on OPVs with the load you suggest? They are planned with that in mind from the start. Those 2+8 OPVs will cost less than 4 Ada class Milgems.
Re-read my post, i am not telling OPVs were planned with the exact weapon payload as Ada Class. It was planned as Ada Class without heavy weapons but light weapons (Temren etc) keeping the ESM and Radar, Propulsion and FCR the same. Later these were downgraded as Navy's re-evaluation, first to CODAD then the CODAE. Thus the 40% reduction in price have occured by replacing SMART-S with MAR-D, ARES-2N with lighter variant, ADVENT with limited features and less consoles.
Replacing CODAG to CODAE alone brings OPV cost down by %20.

Meanwhile check who has told this in past;
I'm surprised this one has 76mm at the front and Smart-S Mk2 at the mast. Lol, this is a Milgem without RAM and Atmaca. I don't think we have enough budget to produce 10 of this

and then this when ASFAT have showcased fully loaded Hisar Class;
Those OPVs will be expensive, especially in that configuration, I don't know how we can produce 10 of them. Note that we will also be constructing İstif class and we will probably put TF-2000 on the keel. The calendar of those projects is intersecting. Money doesn't grow on the tree. I'm afraid we have to cut some projects. Let's wait and see.

Then who told this in response to above message, months before ASFAT has spoken about %40 price reduction. (I have told it in Augusts in IDEF when ASFAT has showcased fully equipped Hisar Class, haven't even shown the light-empty configuration yet)
Not actually, those OPVs are meant to be constructed with ease in a fast-schedule. 10 of those will cost as much as 3 I-Class, or even less.

And now who says this;
Look at the naval projects that are running in parallel do you think we have 2+ billion extra navy budget to throw on OPVs with the load you suggest? They are planned with that in mind from the start. Those 2+8 OPVs will cost less than 4 Ada class Milgems.

I am not here for a piss-content with a person who feeds on forum's data and then rewrites it somehow as if his own "insider" informations. Personally i take part in these projects, and i am out of this discussion.
 

Anmdt

Experienced member
Naval Specialist
Professional
Messages
3,606
Solutions
1
Reactions
16 14,235
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
That percentage was for the first 4 Milgems where nationalization is lower and weapon and sensor load is a lot better than OPVs. The subsystems and weapons we buy from foreign sources are expensive which makes the hull cost percentage fall down.

Lets give an example. Assume that we have 100 TL to spend.

Milgem Ada class first ship
25 TL for full (high national capability)
25 TL for things like power delivery system, generators, citadel hvac system etc. (Medium national capability)
30 TL for sensor (Medium national capability)
20 TL for weapons (basic national capability)

National contribution percentage %65
Hull percentage is %25 total cost 100TL

Milgem Ada class if we want to build it now
25 TL hull (high national capability)
20 TL for ship subsystems (high national capability)
20 TL for sensors (high national capability)
12 TL for weapons (high national capability)

National contribution percentage %80
Total cost 77 TL Hull percentage %32.5

Milgem Based OPV.
20 TL hull (high national capability)
14 TL for subsystems (high national capability)
8 TL for sensors (high national capability)
4 TL for weapons (high national capability)

National contribution %85
Total cost 46 TL hull percentage %43.5


BTW we gave a price of 300 million $ per ship(1.2 billion in total) to Pakistan for Milgem based frigates(very close to I class specs). Later the price came down when Pakistan decided to modify our first offer and use different weapons and subsystems with separate contracts.

This is so wrong in many levels, i have no time to correct these neither any intention. Just leaving this comment here so that people knows and not misleaded.
 

Fighter_35

Committed member
Messages
252
Reactions
289
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
That percentage was for the first 4 Milgems where nationalization is lower and weapon and sensor load is a lot better than OPVs. The subsystems and weapons we buy from foreign sources are expensive which makes the hull cost percentage fall down.

Lets give an example. Assume that we have 100 TL to spend.

Milgem Ada class first ship
25 TL for full (high national capability)
25 TL for things like power delivery system, generators, citadel hvac system etc. (Medium national capability)
30 TL for sensor (Medium national capability)
20 TL for weapons (basic national capability)

National contribution percentage %65
Hull percentage is %25 total cost 100TL

Milgem Ada class if we want to build it now
25 TL hull (high national capability)
20 TL for ship subsystems (high national capability)
20 TL for sensors (high national capability)
12 TL for weapons (high national capability)

National contribution percentage %80
Total cost 77 TL Hull percentage %32.5

Milgem Based OPV.
20 TL hull (high national capability)
14 TL for subsystems (high national capability)
8 TL for sensors (high national capability)
4 TL for weapons (high national capability)

National contribution %85
Total cost 46 TL hull percentage %43.5


BTW we gave a price of 300 million $ per ship(1.2 billion in total) to Pakistan for Milgem based frigates(very close to I class specs). Later the price came down when Pakistan decided to modify our first offer and use different weapons and subsystems with separate contracts.

You are joking right ??
Sensor and weapon cost decrease from 50 to 12??
In order for this , this ships only should be built for the complement of tuzla class! with this sensor and weapon load !! But we know that they will host almost everything compared to milgems. What you can do is decrease to 35-40 at most from 50!!
 

Yasar

Experienced member
Lead Moderator
Professional
Messages
1,848
Reactions
8 7,501
Nation of residence
United Kingdom
Nation of origin
Turkey
@Anmdt , is CODAE propulsion like CODLAG or CODLOG ? Combined Diesel Electric And/Or Gas? In this case Combined diesel and Electric.? Any similarity to AZP or IEP ?
 

Anmdt

Experienced member
Naval Specialist
Professional
Messages
3,606
Solutions
1
Reactions
16 14,235
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
@Anmdt , is CODAE propulsion like CODLAG or CODLOG ? Combined Diesel Electric And/Or Gas? In this case Combined diesel and Electric.? Any similarity to AZP or IEP ?
Yes it is like CODELAG (Combine Diesel-Electric and Gas), you may see CODAE (Combine Diesel and Electric) is also referrred as CODELAD (Combined Diesel-Electric and Diesel). With an image;

1642683838307.png


If you drive these Electrical motors (Called Power-Take-In if they deliver power to the shaft, and Power-Take-Off , PTO, if they receive power from the shaft),altogether with the diesels in MISO (multi input single output) and if diesel-electric generators feed the the electrical motors it becomes CODELAD, if you uncouple the diesels when electric motors in SISO it becomes CODELOD. If you drive the generator via gas turbine you replace the latest letter with G.

IEP is an integrated system, while CO-Combined systems usually refer to decoupling electricity demand of the ship from the demand of the propulsion, IEP brings those together. Thus the ship only has a set of generators that both feed the propulsion and the whole ship.

AZP is like more Diesel-electic propulsion. Gensets feed the electrical motors in azimuths.
 

Khagan1923

Contributor
Messages
492
Reactions
2,015
Nation of residence
Germany
Nation of origin
Turkey
Why are you discussing something without any information on the numbers? The last three pages have been nothing but waste and distracting from the actual topic. No one cares about the price, that is for the government and the specific branch to deal with. If the Navy and the Government have decided that they will build the remaining three I-Class in parallel to each other then they probably thought this through.

Can we now stop this.
 

Zafer

Experienced member
Messages
2,317
Reactions
4,004
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
Ufuk reminded me of my times when I was on a cargo ship being responsible for communications. The bad thing about that job was all communications equipment were old and broken, I had to do with what I could fix with my limited electronics training. That's when I kept finding little holes on my pants out of the blue, turns out it was because of the lead acid batteries that I had to deal with.
 

Yasar

Experienced member
Lead Moderator
Professional
Messages
1,848
Reactions
8 7,501
Nation of residence
United Kingdom
Nation of origin
Turkey
At last, the first of our new submarines is coming home!
Piri Reis Sub, has started port acceptance tests. Upon completing these tests the sub will go through the sea acceptance tests.

1642856380791.png
 
Top Bottom