TR Navy Turkish Navy|News & Discussions

[uçuyorum]

Even then it has only enough to fill the 21 slot on each ship and leave very little sparea counting the ones on the launchers, probably enough for just 1 ships worth of spares. Wouldn't last in an actual war.

 

[Fairon]

View attachment 70318

According to a U.S. House of Representatives report, the U.S. government approved the FMS of 94 RIM-116 missiles for the Turkish Navy

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1828797815897854109

According to the report, the FMS, valued at $90 million, includes the sale of 94 Mk 44 MOD 4 (tactical) RAM Guided Missile Round Packs, 3 Mk 47 MOD 9 telemeter missiles, and 1 blast test vehicle. The package also covers transportation and storage containers, as well as technical data from the U.S. Navy’s RAM Program Office on behalf of RAM-System GmbH (RAMSYS) for the Turkish Navy.

The missiles will be deployed on the Turkish Navy’s ADA-class corvettes, which are equipped with the RAM point defence missile system as part of their self-defence capabilities. Originally, the system was intended to be installed on I-class frigates, but after U.S. sanctions were imposed, the Turkish defence industry opted to mount the indigenous Gökdeniz 35-mm close-in weapon system (CIWS) on the TCG Istanbul instead.

@Tayfun Ozberk

They are like clockwork.

As soon as our own projects seems to be materializing, they approved RAM's.

 

[Sanchez]

Even then it has only enough to fill the 21 slot on each ship and leave very little sparea counting the ones on the launchers, probably enough for just 1 ships worth of spares. Wouldn't last in an actual war.

Turkey originally got 125 missiles for 4 Ada Class ships. There was also a DSCA notice from 2016 for 150 more for I Class and Anadolu but as far as I remember, that sale never happened. So this is actually about an 80% increase in the missile stock. And now Turkey only asked for more missiles for Ada Class ships, which will probably be enough for the type's remaining service life. As we know, we never put RAM on I Class or the Anadolu. So, good business, saves us from having to replace those RAMs during Ada Class' MLU.

 

[what]

They are like clockwork.

As soon as our own projects seems to be materializing, they approved RAM's.

We've could have withdrawn our request, but didnt.
Why? Because some smart people know that we need it.

 

[Quasar]

''To address the point defence needs of Turkish surface combatants, Aselsan is developing the Göksur, and Roketsan is working on the Levent point defence missile systems. Both systems are currently in the development phase and are expected to begin trials soon.'' Eventhouh this is a general statment...would/will be interesting to have 3 diffrent point deffence systems

@Anmdt is it RAM block 2? since İf I am not wrong only Block 2 is in production



Weapon System combines the Mk 44 Guided Missile Round Pack and Mk 49 Guided Missile Launching System ... Mk 44 MOD 4? could you explaine what this MOD 4 stands for?

 

[Anmdt]

''To address the point defence needs of Turkish surface combatants, Aselsan is developing the Göksur, and Roketsan is working on the Levent point defence missile systems. Both systems are currently in the development phase and are expected to begin trials soon.'' Eventhouh this is a general statment...would/will be interesting to have 3 diffrent point deffence systems

@Anmdt is it RAM block 2? since İf am not wrong only Block 2 is in production



Weapon System combines the Mk 44 Guided Missile Round Pack and Mk 49 Guided Missile Launching System ... Mk 44 MOD 4? could you explaine what this MOD 4 stands for?

Mod 4 is the designation for Block 2/A. Newest Block 2B is referred as Mod 6.

 

[Saithan]

So we'll be able to conduct tests and compare performance with our own indigenous RAM right ?

 

[Anmdt]

View attachment 70318

To address the point defence needs of Turkish surface combatants, Aselsan is developing the Göksur, and Roketsan is working on the Levent point defence missile systems. Both systems are currently in the development phase and are expected to begin trials soon.

According to a U.S. House of Representatives report, the U.S. government approved the FMS of 94 RIM-116 missiles for the Turkish Navy

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1828797815897854109

According to the report, the FMS, valued at $90 million, includes the sale of 94 Mk 44 MOD 4 (tactical) RAM Guided Missile Round Packs, 3 Mk 47 MOD 9 telemeter missiles, and 1 blast test vehicle. The package also covers transportation and storage containers, as well as technical data from the U.S. Navy’s RAM Program Office on behalf of RAM-System GmbH (RAMSYS) for the Turkish Navy.

The missiles will be deployed on the Turkish Navy’s ADA-class corvettes, which are equipped with the RAM point defence missile system as part of their self-defence capabilities. Originally, the system was intended to be installed on I-class frigates, but after U.S. sanctions were imposed, the Turkish defence industry opted to mount the indigenous Gökdeniz 35-mm close-in weapon system (CIWS) on the TCG Istanbul instead.

@Tayfun Ozberk

As far as i can remember I-class had CIWS, Phalanx initially and then Gökdeniz (just like DIMDEG, B-YOM); planned to use ESSM as PDMS. There was RAM only for a brief time, on early concepts of I-Class and when they switched to Phalanx we had no issues with procuring RAM, it was more of a matter of cost management (and presence or RAM).

We skipped RAM on TCG Anadolu.

 

[zio]

İmported missiles are good for peace time but for war time if you can not get it,you could be in big trouble.,so to avoid this process you should make huge stocks.It is always superior to rely on your own resorces.

 

[Sanchez]

İmported missiles are good for peace time but for war time if you can not get it,you could be in big trouble.,so to avoid this process you should make huge stocks.It is always superior to rely on your own resorces.

There are multiple limitations here. Navies don't have endless stocks on bases. Ships have limits on spare munitions they can carry. Reloading missiles, even as small as RIM-116 is not that easy. You fight with what you have, it's not even guaranteed you will be able to return to your base to reload.

Take the older Asagiri Class Destroyer and its Mk29 Sea Sparrow launcher. It has 8 ready to launch, 4 ready to reload, and 8 more that need to be readied before it can be reloaded. And this was a design that had a built in reloader on with a conveyor and winch built in the design.

 

[uçuyorum]

I mean 21 missiles ready is not too bad, but still wouldn't last for too many engagements on its own. Ada class needs hisar asap.

 

[Sanchez]

I mean 21 missiles ready is not too bad, but still wouldn't last for too many engagements on its own. Ada class needs hisar asap.

Add 8-16 to 21, that's just 29-37 in target rich environment. Italians have everyone else beat in this. What we probably need is airburst rounds for our 76mm main guns. Greeks showed that even the 127mm can be effective against slow moving air targets. It's much cheaper and ships can carry not few tens, but hundreds of rounds. And if sufficient range is achieved, main gun can take the role off CIWS from missiles, leaving them for higher value and faster threats like ASMs.

 

[Strong AI]

Add 8-16 to 21, that's just 29-37 in target rich environment. Italians have everyone else beat in this. What we probably need is airburst rounds for our 76mm main guns. Greeks showed that even the 127mm can be effective against slow moving air targets. It's much cheaper and ships can carry not few tens, but hundreds of rounds. And if sufficient range is achieved, main gun can take the role off CIWS from missiles, leaving them for higher value and faster threats like ASMs.

So basically this?
Can be used against air threats too.

GFCS - ASELSAN

www.aselsan.com

Here are some shots.

 

[Anmdt]

So basically this?
Can be used against air threats too.

GFCS - ASELSAN

www.aselsan.com

Here are some shots.

This is typical gun fire control system. The munition is not configured for anything but onboard tracking systems approximates target distance and velocity and tells gun where to shoot at, dynamically also considering vessel's speed and motion. The gun measures munition's speed and feeds CMS of the platform on likelihood of engagement.

The system also has calibration feature, it fires at a blank spot, corrects the arrival and then uses calibrated data for engagement.

Guided and programmable munitions are something else, for guided one it needs a beam to ride on, programmable one needs to be told when to enable the fuse and burst.

 

[uçuyorum]

TCG İstanbul today

 

[uçuyorum]

Are the main cannon in Istif and Ada class equipped with airburst ammunitions for CIWS duty? Will the national 76mm have the same capability?

 

[Anmdt]

Are the main cannon in Istif and Ada class equipped with airburst ammunitions for CIWS duty? Will the national 76mm have the same capability?

Programmable airburst ammo is likely a no, if 76mm has a proximity fuse mode then likely yes. Ada-Class is equipped with SR version so with the higher rate of fire it becomes efficient in CIWS duties (along with efficiency of Aselsan TAKS - GFCS). Frankly, Aselsan's TAKS has such a good performance in all weather conditions and adaptable to different climates, environments. I have witnessed tests with twin-40mm in moderate sea conditions and it was nice to see stabilization and engagement efficiency, 76mm should be even better.

National 76mm is not matching to SR so the the CIWS duty will be limited or not efficient until they are introducing national 76mm programmable rounds or proximity fuse enabled versions.

Navy has been demanding an R&D for almost a decade, towards making varieties of smart 76mm rounds but at the another end we have MKE, which is a former institue and now a company, amazing us and Navy with their R&D and production capabilities. I don't think we have any trouble with controllers or chips to endure high G forces that can be made by Aselsan, it is more about the people who makes the rounds.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Programmable airburst ammo is likely a no, if 76mm has a proximity fuse mode then likely yes. Ada-Class is equipped with SR version so with the higher rate of fire it becomes efficient in CIWS duties (along with efficiency of Aselsan TAKS - GFCS). Frankly, Aselsan's TAKS has such a good performance in all weather conditions and adaptable to different climates, environments. I have witnessed tests with twin-40mm in moderate sea conditions and it was nice to see stabilization and engagement efficiency, 76mm should be even better.

National 76mm is not matching to SR so the the CIWS duty will be limited or not efficient until they are introducing national 76mm programmable rounds or proximity fuse enabled versions.

Navy has been demanding an R&D for almost a decade, towards making varieties of smart 76mm rounds but at the another end we have MKE, which is a former institue and now a company, amazing us and Navy with their R&D and production capabilities. I don't think we have any trouble with controllers or chips to endure high G forces that can be made by Aselsan, it is more about the people who makes the rounds.

So with that, and the fact that first I-Class ship is furnished with a 76mm Süper RAPID gun, is it not likely that given the choice, the navy will insist on having the same S/R Oto Melara gun to be fitted on to the rest of the I-Class ships? Or alternatively, insist on MKE to introduce the same.

As the relations have been warmer now between Italians and us, and knowing that we can make the same gun, they will be more inclined to sell to us at a much reduced price too. (If memory serves, they had already reduced their price after we introduced our version of the 76mm gun).

 

[Anmdt]

So with that, and the fact that first I-Class ship is furnished with a 76mm Süper RAPID gun, is it not likely that given the choice, the navy will insist on having the same S/R Oto Melara gun to be fitted on to the rest of the I-Class ships? Or alternatively, insist on MKE to introduce the same.

As the relations have been warmer now between Italians and us, and knowing that we can make the same gun, they will be more inclined to sell to us at a much reduced price too. (If memory serves, they had already reduced their price after we introduced our version of the 76mm gun).

Since making of national 76mm Italians have been generous with the offer, lowering the price, offering training kits-munitions and so on. But i think rest of I-class is planned with national 76 mm that is equilavent of compact. I see no motivation in MKE for moving towards to make a mechanism for SR equilavent. I think at this point Navy accepts an inferior solution since they have been part and stem of the project. Navy tends to accept an inferior product if they have been the part or party of a project.

In my opinion if we are sure of programmable and proximity fuse options for national 76 mm rounds, then national 76 mm would serve the purpose of air defense as better as SR version. If we are not, then we had better had SR on I-Class and utilize national 76mm on ADKG and similar light designs, auxillaries and so on.

It is another question if MKE can manage the supply chain and catch up with the building schedule of 7 I-Class and 8 ADKG, and future planned 7 TTHB until 2030, plus the exports.

 

[boredaf]

It is another question if MKE can manage the supply chain and catch up with the building schedule of 7 I-Class and 8 ADKG, and future planned 7 TTHB until 2030, plus the exports.

It would be even better for us, imo, if this gets MKE to expand its facilities. Not just for 76mm naval gun and its ammo but for overall production.