TR Oil & Gas Exploration Update & Discussion

[Era_shield]

This means extreme conditions are needed to make this reserve feasible.
It is actually the proof of it is not being feasible in an open market.

Not necessarily. I don't know the financials for extraction of this reserve, what I'm saying is that no matter what it costs today, in a few years if the geostrategic situation is very different as it's predicted to be, it will definitely be feasible and important that these reserves exist.

 

[Anmdt]

Not necessarily. I don't know the financials for extraction of this reserve, what I'm saying is that no matter what it costs today, in a few years if the geostrategic situation is very different as it's predicted to be, it will definitely be feasible and important that these reserves exist.

You are describing a monopoly situation, this also applies to other bulk products which we may not have a reserve in Turkey. Yes it could save the day but if we can not ensure a good flow of crude oil then it won't be gas but the fuel which is not available in market.
Extreme conditions do not ratify the feasibility.

 

[Era_shield]

You are describing a monopoly situation, this also applies to other bulk products which we may not have a reserve in Turkey. Yes it could save the day but if we can not ensure a good flow of crude oil then it won't be gas but the fuel which is not available in market.
Extreme conditions do not ratify the feasibility.

Yes, we will need to ensure a supply of both. This gas reserve fixes half the energy problem. The other half (oil), I've seen credible analysis that says North Iraq could be a reliable source for Turkey. That may or may not come true, but either way we are in a much better position having a secure large gas reserve available to us.

 

[Bogeyman]

Azerbaijan should prepare for the end of gas exports era like the Arabs should. Probably the best way to do so is to focus on plastic recine and other processed petrol products production.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1399106205688152069

The Germans were preparing to invest 8 billion euros in hydrogen.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1400890313770737665

"These natural gas discoveries can also be used for carbon capture or pyrolysis hydrogen production, which does not consume water resources."

This is the opinion of an expert academic for Turkey's gas discoveries. I think a similar approach is valid in Azerbaijan.

 

[Saithan]

I really wonder today how much will it cost to us drilling?

They must declare the drilling costs

Because European countries buy gas two times cheaper than us.
If the new costs are higher than we buy, it will just bring burden on consumers. Nonetheless it will make some contractors richer.


İnstead of buying 120usd , is it really reasonable to drill it 300/350usd?
View attachment 22283

Bakan ser verdi, sır vermedi: Doğalgaz fiyatı ‘ticari sır’mış!

www.internethabersitesi.com

I told my dad the same thing, but my father was like “dependency to foreign energy supply must be eliminated”, he’s an AKP man, he didn’t have much to say when I told him the daily consumption in Turkey.

 

[mulj]

Last couple of posts mad me bitter laugh perfect example for me how turks and bosniacs share similar mentality, quarell about absoluty unnecessary things among themselfs .

Sorry for of topic, could not sustain myself.

 

[kimov]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1399106205688152069

The Germans were preparing to invest 8 billion euros in hydrogen.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1400890313770737665

"These natural gas discoveries can also be used for carbon capture or pyrolysis hydrogen production, which does not consume water resources."

This is the opinion of an expert academic for Turkey's gas discoveries. I think a similar approach is valid in Azerbaijan.

On earth hydrogen is not an energy source in chemical reactions, it is an energy carrier.

It is stupid to convert natural gas to hydrogen to be used as fuel in transportation industry since you lose a lot of the energy in the conversion process. You would not gain environmental benefits either since you still have the same CO2, which technically could be captured to be stored in under ground facilities but that cost a lot of energy and money.

Natural gas is best used as LPG/LNG in transportation industry. But if you really need to convert it then it would be better to convert natural gas to a liquid fuel like diesel instead of hydrogen as we have an infrastructure for diesel. Storing and distributing hydrogen have a lot of technical problems.

Hydrogen is of little value unless you have direct use of hydrogen in your industrial product/process.
Also, the water usage argument is weak argument since water is not consumed but recycled.

Only time hydrogen can be considered as a good energy carrier is in two scenarios.
1. You have a very very very large overabundant energy production from renewable sources like solar that you can not use.
In this case, converting this overproduction to hydrogen could be potentially useful. In reality, even this is stupid for various reasons since you lose most of the energy.

2. You have a 4th generation gas cooled high temperature nuclear reactor which can use high temperature pyrolysis of water as a byproduct of the nuclear reactor. Problem is that nobody have such a rector yet.

 

[Huelague]

Good luck with that because in Turkey nearly everything has tax and the constant burden of zam over zam.

But no one pay any taxes.

 

[Zafer]

On earth hydrogen is not an energy source in chemical reactions, it is an energy carrier.

It is stupid to convert natural gas to hydrogen to be used as fuel in transportation industry since you lose a lot of the energy in the conversion process. You would not gain environmental benefits either since you still have the same CO2, which technically could be captured to be stored in under ground facilities but that cost a lot of energy and money.

Natural gas is best used as LPG/LNG in transportation industry. But if you really need to convert it then it would be better to convert natural gas to a liquid fuel like diesel instead of hydrogen as we have an infrastructure for diesel. Storing and distributing hydrogen have a lot of technical problems.

Hydrogen is of little value unless you have direct use of hydrogen in your industrial product/process.
Also, the water usage argument is weak argument since water is not consumed but recycled.

Only time hydrogen can be considered as a good energy carrier is in two scenarios.
1. You have a very very very large overabundant energy production from renewable sources like solar that you can not use.
In this case, converting this overproduction to hydrogen could be potentially useful. In reality, even this is stupid for various reasons since you lose most of the energy.

2. You have a 4th generation gas cooled high temperature nuclear reactor which can use high temperature pyrolysis of water as a byproduct of the nuclear reactor. Problem is that nobody have such a rector yet.

They want to mix hydrogen in the NG for heating up to 8% (?). We also need hydrogen for our subs which we currently import. We need a hydrogen economy.

 

[Cypro]

I really wonder today how much will it cost to us drilling?

They must declare the drilling costs

Because European countries buy gas two times cheaper than us.
If the new costs are higher than we buy, it will just bring burden on consumers. Nonetheless it will make some contractors richer.


İnstead of buying 120usd , is it really reasonable to drill it 300/350usd?
View attachment 22283

Bakan ser verdi, sır vermedi: Doğalgaz fiyatı ‘ticari sır’mış!

www.internethabersitesi.com

TurkStream was not free of charge or other pipelines, when you do such an investment (strategic) you pay the initial investment + actual cost for the period of time. After contract for those pipelines expires Turkey will have bargain power.. That is the trade secret... Instead of Bulgaria, Romania, Turkey got the pipeline valve from Russia.

 

[Yasar_TR]

On earth hydrogen is not an energy source in chemical reactions, it is an energy carrier.

It is stupid to convert natural gas to hydrogen to be used as fuel in transportation industry since you lose a lot of the energy in the conversion process. You would not gain environmental benefits either since you still have the same CO2, which technically could be captured to be stored in under ground facilities but that cost a lot of energy and money.

Natural gas is best used as LPG/LNG in transportation industry. But if you really need to convert it then it would be better to convert natural gas to a liquid fuel like diesel instead of hydrogen as we have an infrastructure for diesel. Storing and distributing hydrogen have a lot of technical problems.

Hydrogen is of little value unless you have direct use of hydrogen in your industrial product/process.
Also, the water usage argument is weak argument since water is not consumed but recycled.

Only time hydrogen can be considered as a good energy carrier is in two scenarios.
1. You have a very very very large overabundant energy production from renewable sources like solar that you can not use.
In this case, converting this overproduction to hydrogen could be potentially useful. In reality, even this is stupid for various reasons since you lose most of the energy.

2. You have a 4th generation gas cooled high temperature nuclear reactor which can use high temperature pyrolysis of water as a byproduct of the nuclear reactor. Problem is that nobody have such a rector yet.

The trick is to be able to produce Hydrogen at least as cheap as gasoline. For this, a measurement unit called GGE (Gasoline Gallon Equivalent) is used. 1 kg of Hydrogen is equivalent to 4 gallons of gasoline in terms of energy output. So 1 kg of hydrogen has to be 4dollars or less.
Also producing hydrogen by using methods that are not “green” is not really feasible.
Australians claim that they will be able to produce ”green” hydrogen from water in a short time for 2 dollars per kg.
If distribution problems are resolved as well, 2030 onwards we could be looking at proliferation of hydrogen energy world wide.

 

[TheInsider]

Turkish Blacksea natural gas discoveries are financially feasible.

 

[Bogeyman]

Turkey's Black Sea Natural Gas Discovery: Brief History and Implications​

Turkey's Black Sea Natural Gas Discovery: Brief History and Implications

Turkey’s President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan announced on 20 August 2020 the discovery of a large gas field in the Sakarya Block, located 175 km offshore Ereğli, in the Black Sea. This article aims to elaborate on the importance of this discovery for Turkey from a historical perspective, discuss the ques

www.bilkenteprc.com

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZFY-3ukLhKxl-urEmyq5dVRkKU4XsE9T/view?usp=sharing

Natural Gas Depots In Turkey - Atahan Tümer​

Natural Gas Depots In Turkey - Atahan Tümer

Natural gas storages are of great importance for the country's economy. States make agreements on specific amounts of natural gas. In these agreements, it is often not possible to accurately estimate the natural gas demand. There are many reasons for this. Indeed, many reasons come to mind even...

www.bilkenteprc.com

 

[kimov]

They want to mix hydrogen in the NG for heating up to 8% (?). We also need hydrogen for our subs which we currently import. We need a hydrogen economy.

Mixing H2 into LNG makes no sense for transport since we don't have any big natural source of hydrogen so practically all of it has be produced at a energy and economical cost. Keep in mind that practically all (95%) of H2 production comes from LNG. This H2 production cost about 30GJ/ton while LNG contains about 50-60GJ/ton so you are loosing more than 50% of your energy in LNG just during the production.

There are other methods to produce H2 but these are not economical unless you have very cheap energy source like in overproduction of electricity from renewables or nuclear power plants as I mentioned earlier. Problem is that there are better options than producing H2 to use the over-production. The cheapest and energetically favorable would be HVDC transmission lines for long range transport to other regions. However, if you really need to store it locally then for short-term storage, batteries are preferred over H2. For long-term storage, mechanical energy is preferable from energy/economy point of view. The mechanical energy can be a flywheels but more more common is reversing hydro-plants if you have them. In both these cases, the efficiency of the energy storage can be as high as 80-95%. For H2, you can easily have 80% losses.

From energy point of view, hydrogen economy makes no sense as it is always an energy loss. You can use produced hydrogen in specialized applications such as industrial processes or in subs AIP fuel cell or rocket fuel but economy is not the driving cause for these applications.

Also, I did not know that Turkey had commissioned AIP capable submarines (TCG Pirireis???) already. My impression was that Peri Reis was still in out-fitting stage. Do any of our older subs use H2? Also, are you sure that we are importing or going to import H2 for the subs?

 

[kimov]

The trick is to be able to produce Hydrogen at least as cheap as gasoline. For this, a measurement unit called GGE (Gasoline Gallon Equivalent) is used. 1 kg of Hydrogen is equivalent to 4 gallons of gasoline in terms of energy output. So 1 kg of hydrogen has to be 4dollars or less.
Also producing hydrogen by using methods that are not “green” is not really feasible.
Australians claim that they will be able to produce ”green” hydrogen from water in a short time for 2 dollars per kg.
If distribution problems are resolved as well, 2030 onwards we could be looking at proliferation of hydrogen energy world wide.

I agree that H2 production should not be from LNG to be viable for an long-term green solution but today 95% of all H2 comes from LNG.

The only realistic green option for production of H2 is via electrolysis of water when you a have an over production of electricity from nuclear, solar or wind. This cost about 180-200GJ/ton of high value electrical energy while H2 contains 120-145GJ/ton of low value thermal/chemical energy (LNG is about 50-55GJ/ton and gasoline is about 45GJ/ton). You can expect about 40-60% efficiency to convert H2 back to electrical. So, roughly you are getting back about 50-70GJ for every 200GJ just to be able to store electricity in H2. There are far better ways to use electricity than store it in H2. Keep in mind that these calculations do not even include storage and distribution cost for H2. Compressing H2 to several hundred bars for storage is very energetic so you loose even more in reality.

Other H2 production methods such organic or artificial leafs are even less efficient than photo voltaic electricity production.

 

[Zafer]

They want to produce Hydrogen from coal and renewables and mix in NG. Also use H for railroad locomotion.

Enerjide devrim gibi adım: Hidrojenli doğal gaz geliyor

Türkiye'de ilk defa doğal gaz ile hidrojenin karıştırılarak evsel cihazlarda kullanılması projesi hayata geçirildi. GAZBİR - GAZMER Teknoloji Merkezi'nin Konya'da yapılan açılışına Enerji ve Tabii Kaynaklar Bakanı Fatih Dönmez de katıldı.

www.trthaber.com

 

[Yasar_TR]

I agree that H2 production should not be from LNG to be viable for an long-term green solution but today 95% of all H2 comes from LNG.

The only realistic green option for production of H2 is via electrolysis of water when you a have an over production of electricity from nuclear, solar or wind. This cost about 180-200GJ/ton of high value electrical energy while H2 contains 120-145GJ/ton of low value thermal/chemical energy (LNG is about 50-55GJ/ton and gasoline is about 45GJ/ton). You can expect about 40-60% efficiency to convert H2 back to electrical. So, roughly you are getting back about 50-70GJ for every 200GJ just to be able to store electricity in H2. There are far better ways to use electricity than store it in H2. Keep in mind that these calculations do not even include storage and distribution cost for H2. Compressing H2 to several hundred bars for storage is very energetic so you loose even more in reality.

Other H2 production methods such organic or artificial leafs are even less efficient than photo voltaic electricity production.

As I have mentioned in my post; Australians have already managed to produce ”Green Hydrogen” from water by electrolysis cheaply. According to reports it is half the price of equivalent gasoline energy. They are in the process of making bulk production feasible by 2030.

 

[kimov]

There is a pdf link about Australia's Green hydrogen project at

Australia’s National Hydrogen Strategy

www.industry.gov.au

Hydrogen is planned to be produced from from grossly over-production of solar and wind. This was mentioned as a possibility above.

They are not joking about the over production either. They hope to produce 4000-6000TWh annually from PV while only consuming 300TWh internally. They need to invest around +100B USD for this goal to be achieved but have only invested mere 146M$AU between 2015-2019 for R&D and a pilot. They calculate to use 3% or 262,000 square kilometer of coastal areas with solar cells.

 

[what]

They want to produce Hydrogen from coal and renewables and mix in NG. Also use H for railroad locomotion.

Enerjide devrim gibi adım: Hidrojenli doğal gaz geliyor

Türkiye'de ilk defa doğal gaz ile hidrojenin karıştırılarak evsel cihazlarda kullanılması projesi hayata geçirildi. GAZBİR - GAZMER Teknoloji Merkezi'nin Konya'da yapılan açılışına Enerji ve Tabii Kaynaklar Bakanı Fatih Dönmez de katıldı.

www.trthaber.com

Producing Hydrogen from coal seems redundant. The reason why most countries want to move to (green) hydrogen is less CO2.

 

[Zafer]

Producing Hydrogen from coal seems redundant. The reason why most countries want to move to (green) hydrogen is less CO2.

They are doing studies and experimentation, I don't think they will burn coal in the process. If they manage to make it cleanly it would be fantastic.