Live Conflict Ukraine-Russia War

Huelague

Experienced member
Messages
3,544
Reactions
4 3,799
Nation of residence
Germany
Nation of origin
Turkey
Prime Minister of Bavaria against Ukraine's accession to NATO

b8_1zx.png


January 23, 2022, 16:44



The (German) Bavarian politician followed the path of the former head of the German Navy

Markus Soeder opposes tough anti-Russian sanctions for aggression against Ukraine.



The Prime Minister of the German state of Bavaria, Markus Soeder, spoke out against tough anti-Russian sanctions, saying that Moscow is not an enemy of Europe. ( ask East and south Europeans)

In an interview with the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, Zeder noted that "no one can want a war in Europe, while the territorial integrity and independence of Ukraine must be respected in accordance with international law." (If not?)

At the same time, he expressed confidence that the ever-tougher sanctions against Russia cannot become an independent solution.

"On the one hand, because sanctions have long been ineffective, and on the other hand, because these new sanctions often harm us no less. For example, disconnecting Russia from the SWIFT financial system. Or closing the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline, or even stopping all supplies gas from Russia as a whole would also affect our country. Even at the height of the Cold War, the energy connection between the Soviet Union and Germany was not in doubt, "said the Bavarian politician. (thats the problem)

Zeder also spoke out against Ukraine's entry into NATO in the near future.

"Despite all the justified criticism of Russia, the West will ultimately have to answer the key question: is NATO expanding to include Ukraine or not?" You certainly cannot let Russia dictate here. But you still need to answer. In my opinion, one thing is clear: NATO's eastward expansion to include Ukraine will not be on the agenda for a long time to come," Zeder said.

According to him, NATO is not committed to a military alliance with Ukraine: "It is a matter of clarity and honesty to define a strategy that takes this into account while protecting the territorial integrity of Ukraine."

Zeder stressed that Russia is "a difficult partner, but not an enemy of Europe", so it is necessary to maintain contact with Moscow. He said that most Germans want a stable and peaceful relationship with Russia.

He also said that he "cannot imagine" the supply of German weapons to Ukraine.
Who will trust in Germans?
 

Nilgiri

Experienced member
Moderator
Aviation Specialist
Messages
9,269
Reactions
96 18,815
Nation of residence
Canada
Nation of origin
India
I think the Russians know really well, that the answer of nuclear is nuclear too.


They (Russia) have apparently (at least partially) insinuated that TNW mobilisation is fair game.

It is probably an exploratory feint (among many threats/insinuations they have been doing a while now) as there is no evidence of such mobilisation so far (i.e actual GUMO team activity with say the iskandars).

But if enough of their decision makers genuinely do think that, that is miscalculation on their part at this juncture where they are already ramping up tensions and preparations broadly.

Bunch of retired military veterans I know (that pay close attention to this stuff) are quite concerned about this paradigm potentially opening up.
 

blackjack

Contributor
Russia Correspondent
Messages
1,172
Reactions
7 639
Nation of residence
United States of America
Nation of origin
Russia
apparently spoke with Russia defense net users and they say that troops are more than 60kms away from border, in other words their MRLS systems will start blowing up Ukrainian ones so the need for EW systems like Rtut-bm wont be needed. So here is another interesting system that will be used.

1642977834148.png



1642977912973.png


Chose a random place in ukraine so thats roughly the area of destruction, other sources say area of destruction from TOS-2 is 60,000 square meters of effective destruction https://avia.pro/news/rossiyskaya-t...estnost-s-protivnikom-ploshchadyu-v-60-tys-kv

Closer zoom in of picture to see buildings, vehicles, etc.

1642978012790.png


It sucks to be a Ukrainian right now :cry:
 

McCool

Contributor
Messages
685
Reactions
1,907
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
I think Russia is not bluffing this time, they will enter Ukraine even with sanctions threat looming. The Russians know the overwhelming superiority of NATO in the air, space, land and sea. The prospect of Moscow suddenly having 1,974 kilometres of land border with NATO would mean that Russia has little hope , especially knowing the flat central European plains meant no natural defense from any prospective NATO incursions going East.
 

blackjack

Contributor
Russia Correspondent
Messages
1,172
Reactions
7 639
Nation of residence
United States of America
Nation of origin
Russia
I really dont want the war to happen but I have a guilty conscious of wanting to know if S-400s, F-35s, drones, EW systems, artillery, tanks with APS systems, etc all live up to their hype
 

Bogeyman 

Experienced member
Professional
Messages
8,040
Reactions
57 28,553
Website
twitter.com
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey

Biden Weighs Deploying Thousands of Troops to Eastern Europe and Baltics​


President Biden is considering deploying several thousand U.S. troops, as well as warships and aircraft, to NATO allies in the Baltics and Eastern Europe, an expansion of American military involvement amid mounting fears of a Russian incursion into Ukraine, according to administration officials.
The move would signal a major pivot for the Biden administration, which up until recently was taking a restrained stance on Ukraine, out of fear of provoking Russia into invading. But as President Vladimir V. Putin has ramped up his threatening actions toward Ukraine, and talks between American and Russian officials have failed to discourage him, the administration is now moving away from its do-not-provoke strategy.
In a meeting on Saturday at Camp David, the presidential retreat in Maryland, senior Pentagon officials presented Mr. Biden with several options that would shift American military assets much closer to Mr. Putin’s doorstep, the administration officials said. The options include sending 1,000 to 5,000 troops to Eastern European countries, with the potential to increase that number tenfold if things deteriorate.
The officials spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to talk publicly about internal deliberations.

Mr. Biden is expected to make a decision as early as this week, they said. He is weighing the buildup as Russia has escalated its menacing posture against Ukraine, including massing more than 100,000 troops and weaponry on the border and stationing Russian forces in Belarus. On Saturday, Britain accused Moscow of developing plans to install a pro-Russian leader in Ukraine.
“Even as we’re engaged in diplomacy, we are very much focused on building up defense, building up deterrence,” Secretary of State Antony J. Blinken said in an interview that aired Sunday on CBS’s “Face the Nation.” “NATO itself will continue to be reinforced in a significant way if Russia commits renewed acts of aggression. All of that is on the table.”
So far, none of the military options being considered include deploying additional American troops to Ukraine itself, and Mr. Biden has made clear that he is loath to enter another conflict following America’s painful exit from Afghanistan last summer after 20 years.
But after years of tiptoeing around the question of how much military support to provide to Ukraine, for fear of provoking Russia, Biden officials have recently warned that the United States could throw its weight behind a Ukrainian insurgency should Mr. Putin invade Ukraine.
And the deployment of thousands of additional American troops to NATO’s eastern flank, which includes Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania, Biden administration officials said, is exactly the scenario that Mr. Putin has wanted to avoid, as he has seen the western military alliance creep closer and closer to Russia’s own border.


The discussions came as the State Department ordered all family members of U.S. embassy personnel in Kyiv to leave Ukraine, citing the threat of Russian military action, and authorized some embassy employees to depart as well, according to senior State Department officials who briefed reporters on Sunday. The officials, who also spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to comment, declined to say how many embassy personnel and family members were in the country. Thinning out staff at American embassies is a common precaution when conflicts or other crises arise that could put American diplomats in harm’s way.
In his news conference last week, Mr. Biden said he had cautioned Mr. Putin that a Russian invasion of Ukraine would prompt Washington to send more troops to the region.
“We’re going to actually increase troop presence in Poland, in Romania, et cetera, if in fact he moves,” Mr. Biden said. “They are part of NATO.”
During a phone call this month, Defense Secretary Lloyd J. Austin III warned his Russian counterpart, Sergey Shoygu, that a Russian incursion into Ukraine would most likely result in the exact troop buildup that Mr. Biden is now considering.
At the time of the phone call — Jan. 6 — the Biden administration was still trying to be more restrained in its stance on Ukraine. But after unsuccessful talks between Mr. Blinken and the Russian foreign minister, Sergey V. Lavrov, on Friday, the administration is eying a more muscular posture, including not only diplomatic options like sanctions, but military options like increasing military support to Ukrainian forces and deploying American troops to the region.
“This is clearly in response to the sudden stationing of Russian forces in Belarus, on the border, essentially, with NATO,” said Evelyn Farkas, the top Pentagon official for Russia and Ukraine during the Obama administration. “There is no way that NATO could not reply to such a sudden military move in this political context. The Kremlin needs to understand that they are only escalating the situation with all of these deployments and increasing the danger to all parties, including themselves.”
A former top Pentagon official for Europe and NATO policy, Jim Townsend, said the administration’s proposal did not go far enough.

“It’s likely too little too late to deter Putin,” Mr. Townsend said in an email. “If the Russians do invade Ukraine in a few weeks, those 5,000 should be just a down payment for a much larger U.S. and allied force presence. Western Europe should once again be an armed camp.”

During the meeting at Camp David, Mr. Austin and Gen. Mark A. Milley, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, appeared by video from the Pentagon and from General Milley’s quarters, where he has been quarantining since he tested positive for the coronavirus. Officials said that if Mr. Biden approved the deployment, some of the troops would come from the United States, while others would move from other parts of Europe to the more vulnerable countries on NATO’s eastern flank.
American officials did not describe in detail the ground troop reinforcements under review, but current and former commanders said they should include more air defense, engineering, logistics and artillery forces.
Besides the troops, Mr. Biden could also approve sending additional aircraft to the region.
Representative Michael McCaul of Texas, the top Republican on the Foreign Affairs Committee, said on Sunday that the United States also needed to conduct more training in those NATO nations.
“We need joint exercises in Poland, the Baltic States, Romania, Bulgaria, to show Putin that we’re serious,” Mr. McCaul said on “Face the Nation.” “Right now, he doesn’t see we’re serious.”
According to Poland’s defense ministry, there are currently about 4,000 U.S. troops and 1,000 other NATO troops stationed in Poland. There are also about 4,000 NATO troops in the Baltic States.
The United States has been regularly flying Air Force RC-135 Rivet Joint electronic-eavesdropping planes over Ukraine since late December. The planes allow American intelligence operatives to listen to Russian ground commanders’ communications. The Air Force is also flying E-8 JSTARS ground-surveillance planes to track the Russian troop buildup and the movements of the forces.

The Biden administration is especially interested in any indication that Russia may deploy tactical nuclear weapons to the border, a move that Russian officials have suggested could be an option.
More than 150 U.S. military advisers are in Ukraine, trainers who have for years worked out of the training ground near Lviv, in the country’s west, far from the front lines. The current group includes Special Operations forces, mostly Army Green Berets, as well as National Guard trainers from Florida’s 53rd Infantry Brigade Combat Team.
Military advisers from about a dozen allied countries are also in Ukraine, U.S. officials said. Several NATO countries, including Britain, Canada, Lithuania and Poland, have regularly sent training forces to the country.
In the event of a full-scale Russian invasion, the United States intends to move its military trainers out of the country quickly. But it is possible that some Americans could stay to advise Ukrainian officials in Kyiv, the capital, or provide frontline support, a U.S. official said.
 

Huelague

Experienced member
Messages
3,544
Reactions
4 3,799
Nation of residence
Germany
Nation of origin
Turkey
What is Germany doin?
Read what ex-General Harald Kujat is thinking about that situation.
 

Follow us on social media

Latest posts

Top Bottom