US blocks delivery of Turkish gunships to Pakistan

[Ryder]

Wrong. US and PH don’t have good relations. PH is in worse condition due to horrible economy and lots of internal issues. PH is doing lots of internal cleanup of corruption, but the west doesn’t like that. The leeches don’t like that.

Still Turkey can give more hardware etc. for less money, but the leeches don’t like that. So israel is getting some contracts due to unrestricted export and such.

Usa does not allow israel to sell its f16s to croatia.

 

[mulj]

@Kaptaan

No big brainer here, expected move from usa, if they do not control they do not sell and cooperate. for you counterterror measures by my opinion anyway it is better to establish stronger drone fleet, cheaper and more effective and that usa can not block, turkey can provide perfect instruments.
and also one more year waiting for domestic turkey engine to enter into full serial production is not catastrophic to do as you cope with this problem within decades.

 

[Kaptaan]

Pak is in FATF grey list. It was involved in nuclear proliferation with the AQ Khan network.

Tell me please what does this have remotey to do with blocking helicopter engines? You just had to machine gun this mud. News flash this your almost 20 years late with AQ and FATF has nothing to do with helicopter engines.

unleashing its military on its own civilian population

One of the greatest untruths you guys have peddled is the role of military in Pakistan. If anything the military does need to be 'unleashed' like the Turkish military has in the past and of now after the PKK.

 

[Kaptaan]

t's using French engine. Also French cannon, MBDA's AAM, and South African own ATGM ZT-6 Mokopa.

Things are pretty sore betwen PM Imran Khan and Macron after the recent spat they had. The Indian's bought Rafales from France and will probably order more so I doubt France will annoy their customer for sake of few engines. Meaning they will block the sale like USA did.

 

[Kaptaan]

FATF has to do with the state not clamping down on terror outfits within its borders. Pak's track record here is abysmal - they have actively financed and supported outfits like the LeT and JeM.

Again this has nothing to do with helicopter engines. And if you want to live in the past I can cite Indian sponsorship of Tamil Tiger terrorists and you only got second thoughts after a Tamil terrorist decided to do a suicide puja and blew your Prime Minister down the Holy Ganga.

 

[Costin84]

This has nothing to do with Pakistan but with sanctioning Turkey for buying S400 and, let's be honest, downplaying competition. Why should I sell you an engine for you to sell a helicopter/tank/SPH/jet to a third party when I can sell those items myself to that third party?

 

[Test7]

Why should I sell you an engine for you to sell a helicopter/tank/SPH/jet to a third party when I can sell those items myself to that third party?

Because, selling something is better than selling nothing while it is obvious that China will make a profitable sale.

 

[TR_123456]

This has nothing to do with Pakistan but with sanctioning Turkey for buying S400 and, let's be honest, downplaying competition. Why should I sell you an engine for you to sell a helicopter/tank/SPH/jet to a third party when I can sell those items myself to that third party?

Agreed,its about Türkiye,nothing else.

 

[GoatsMilk]

This has nothing to do with Pakistan but with sanctioning Turkey for buying S400 and, let's be honest, downplaying competition. Why should I sell you an engine for you to sell a helicopter/tank/SPH/jet to a third party when I can sell those items myself to that third party?

I still remember when the USA wouldn't sell Turkey armed drones to fight pkk terrorists, today Turkish products compete with theirs on the international market.

Also reminds me of the western appetite to force global free trade while they had the advantage, once the outside world started to outcompete the west as seen in China and many other non-European origin states. Now its backs to tariffs and trade control measures for the outside world.

The truth is the future is in Asia. Europe and Northern America are the past desperately trying to cling onto a dominate global position that is with each decade diminishing.

 

[Ryder]

The Turks want to buy weapons.

The West nah you cant here is some sanctions and embargoes.

The Turks say I guess I will buy somewhere else then

The West says you are suppose to buy from us!!! We are allies remember

The Turks say okay we will buy this etc.

The West says no we cant sell you anything here is some more sanctions and embargoes.

The Turks end it with a facepalm

 

[Jackdaws]

Again this has nothing to do with helicopter engines. And if you want to live in the past I can cite Indian sponsorship of Tamil Tiger terrorists and you only got second thoughts after a Tamil terrorist decided to do a suicide puja and blew your Prime Minister down the Holy Ganga.

These are not civilian aircraft. Military equipment to certain regimes is forbidden. And yea, India was in the same boat when it used a Canadian nuclear reactor for its nuke program to produce plutonium. So it's not as if I am saying any country should get a free pass. I don't even trust this current Indian regime - currently they are jailing people under outdated sedition laws. That's one step away from gunning them down.

 

[Saiyan0321]

Agreed,its about Türkiye,nothing else.

Indeed so. US has been blocking this sale since 2019 and has repeatedly hampered the sale. Here is the thing. During the period when it blocked the sale by turkey, it opened a 125 million dollar for our F-16 when imran met trump. Infact the US has never said that it's equipment is not for sale to pakistan. The recent move in 2016 was to not sell pakistan equipment at subsidized rates, something the US had done in the 60s, 80s and 2000s. If the us was so focused on the moral authority if regimes or whether the usage of the weaponry then it wouldn't be selling anything to said regimes.

Infact this would simply force us to enter the chinese market, something that the US does not like about pakistan since during the period or 2010-2018 the US arms purchase by pakistan in 2010 were ,above a billion dollars but by 2018 were 21 million whereas during that period the arms purchase by pakistan from china went from 70 million dollar in 2010 to 800 million in 2018.

The US does not like when their customers enter the open market and like all businessmen they arm twist. For example they twisted our arms as well by removing subsidized rates for equipments. I can blame the US all I want but that is something all nations will do. If tomorrow if we wean from chinese military purchase then expect us to face backlash there as well. This is why self reliance is very important.


I heard you guys were looking for other engines from Poland and other countries. Best have options.

 

[MASA]

There is not much to be done,you'll have to go for the Chinese Z-10ME.
My guess is that the contract will be changed to T-629,T-929 or both in the future.
Both with indigenous engines so,no bs.

Milgem could fail too

 

[Nilgiri]

This has nothing to do with Pakistan but with sanctioning Turkey for buying S400 and, let's be honest, downplaying competition. Why should I sell you an engine for you to sell a helicopter/tank/SPH/jet to a third party when I can sell those items myself to that third party?

Yep I'm sure the US will put the cobras right back on the table (along with all the other stuff cancelled), you know....the one that made Pakistan seek out T-129 in the first place.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1369521673582546946

The 200+ tier 1 guys at the pentagon that were field officers (and are now promoted to flag officers or more than that) dealing with the haqqani network + taliban back in the day (especially where their largest sanctuaries were)....sure have no role in any of this.

 

[TR_123456]

Milgem could fail too

No it cant,take a look at the Pakistan and Ukraine Milgems.

 

[Ryder]

Milgem could fail too

Milgem failing lmaoooo

You do realise the ships are being built for Pakistan and Ukraine.

Milgem is going to mature and bceome even better in the future. It is a long term investment for the Turkish defence industry in becoming independant. It will take time but they will get there.

 

[TR_123456]

Milgem failing lmaoooo

You do realise the ships are being built for Pakistan and Ukraine.

Milgem is going to mature and bceome even better in the future. It is a long term investment for the Turkish defence industry in becoming independent. It will take time but they will get there.

He meant the engines(German).

 

[ekemenirtu]

Purchase some WZ-9 engines from China. Would that work?

Or the whole package that is the CAIC Z-10. It has been reported that the Z-10 helicopter was originally designed by Kamov design bureau, though.

 

[MASA]

He meant the engines(German).

Yes Renk transmission. Italian gun. There is many foreign input besides the mentioned. VLS / CiW / RAM

 

[Combat-Master]

Purchase some WZ-9 engines from China. Would that work?

Or the whole package that is the CAIC Z-10. It has been reported that the Z-10 helicopter was originally designed by Kamov design bureau, though.

WZ-9 engines have poor power-to-weight ratio compared to the LHTEC and TS1400 engines, it won't perform as required. Plus, T-129 has some foreign components that the manufacturers won't be happy hooking up to Chinese hardware. It's LHTEC engines or no T-129.

Alternative being the T-629 with Turkish engines, but that would have to be a long term solution. Pakistan needs them attack helicopters ASAP