USA US Presidential Elections 2024

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Who won the debate? Snap poll results following first Trump-Biden presidential square off​



Large majority of registered voters told CNN that Trump beat Biden in first debate

Joe Biden’s stumbling performance in the first presidential debate left a large majority of viewers believing that Donald Trump came out on top, according to a flash CNN poll.

According to the news network’s poll on Thursday night, 67 percent of viewers felt that Trump put in a better performance than 33 percent for Biden.


Before the event in Atlanta, the same voters said, 55 percent to 45 percent, that they expected Trump to turn in a better performance than Biden.

 

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Who won the debate? Snap poll results following first Trump-Biden presidential square off​



Large majority of registered voters told CNN that Trump beat Biden in first debate

Joe Biden’s stumbling performance in the first presidential debate left a large majority of viewers believing that Donald Trump came out on top, according to a flash CNN poll.

According to the news network’s poll on Thursday night, 67 percent of viewers felt that Trump put in a better performance than 33 percent for Biden.


Before the event in Atlanta, the same voters said, 55 percent to 45 percent, that they expected Trump to turn in a better performance than Biden.


Trump's not gonna win the election. That's my prediction.
 

Iskander

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Trump's not gonna win the election. That's my prediction.
It seems that yesterday it became clear to everyone that old Biden is a clear outsider.
But Democrats are unlikely to just give up. They believe that there is still time to replace the old man with another candidate.

I sympathize with Trump in the absence of another candidate.

Why did you think Trump would lose?
 

Iskander

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He can't appeal to enough voters to win.
Trump has always led Biden by 3-5% in all polls. Now he is twice ahead.
In my opinion, the Democrats have very little chance with Biden.
Even if they replace the old man with someone else, Trump will likely win.

It's strange how people can even vote for 80-year-olds?

Johnson consults God at night!
Trump is selling the Bible!
Biden welcomes otherworldly forces!
This is all very sad.
It's time for America to shake itself up.
 

Afif

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Trump has always led Biden by 3-5% in all polls. Now he is twice ahead.
In my opinion, the Democrats have very little chance with Biden.
Even if they replace the old man with someone else, Trump will likely win.

Okay, let's make a deal. If Biden wins, why don't you send me some Pakhlava.
 

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Biden won in 2020 because he’s not Trump. People are not voting for Biden but against Trump. People will still vote against Trump. This time around, I’m expecting voter apathy and lower turnout, which would increase Trump’s chances.
 

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Biden won in 2020 because he’s not Trump. People are not voting for Biden but against Trump. People will still vote against Trump. This time around, I’m expecting voter apathy and lower turnout, which would increase Trump’s chances.

Exactly.
 

Iskander

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It turns out that everything is much more banal than we thought...

Joe Biden will leave the presidential race if his immediate family and friends decide accordingly, my insider reports :cool: from Biden's kitchen :LOL:

“President Biden will resign if a small group of people loyal to him decide it’s time for him to go.
Jill Biden, his younger sister Valerie Biden and Ted Kaufman, 85, a longtime friend and regular adviser to the president, and a small group of White House advisers are the sole decision makers.
This Kitchen Council functions as an extended family, a council of elders and a ruling oligarchy. “Only these allies have influence over Biden’s decisions.”


Congress?! Nonsense!
Senate?! Misunderstanding!
The Bidens' Kitchen Tip!
The fate of the world is decided here!

It turns out that everything is very banal - we are watching the "America's Magnificent Century” (Mühteşem yüzyıl) live:)
 
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Gavin Newsom will be the winner, or Gretchen Whitmer. Republicans have lost a big portion of their voter base because of Trump: white suburban women.
 
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Trump's not gonna win the election. That's my prediction.
Even after CNN gave Trump a 67 percent approval which by the way is a liberal news network. Even our turk bros hasanabi and cenk uygur were shitting on Biden with that Piers Morgan interview.
 

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Supreme Court immunity ruling raises questions about military orders​


The Supreme Court’s stunning ruling giving presidents immunity from prosecution for official acts raises serious questions about orders issued by the commander in chief to the military, especially if those commands clearly violate U.S. or international law.

A commander in chief with broad immunity from criminal prosecution would have more power and leeway in issuing controversial orders that the military is in most cases obligated to carry out, according to the chain of command.

The Supreme Court ruling, which came in a case related to former President Trump’s efforts to overturn the 2020 election, has sparked general fears about an abuse of power using the military, but also particular concerns about Trump, who has promised to exact revenge if he retakes the White House.

While there may be legal challenges down the line, experts say the ruling does not extend immunity protections for commanders and enlisted service members who carry out the president’s orders.


Victor Hansen, professor of law at the New England School of Law in Boston, explained that service members still have to adhere to legal standards even if the president does not, and said the Supreme Court ruling “flips the dynamic on its head.”

“Now you have the subordinates who have not all of the authority but all of the responsibility,” said Hansen, who served a 20-year career as a military lawyer in the U.S. Army. “And you have a guy at the top who has all the authority and none of the responsibility.”

“It is, in my humble opinion, an absurd and damaging ruling,” he added.

The ruling decided a challenge from Trump’s legal team to a case in Washington, D.C., courts related to the Jan. 6, 2021, riot and other efforts by Trump and his allies to keep power after the 2020 election. His lawyers are now arguing the ruling should apply to a separate case in Florida, where he is charged with illegally keeping classified records, including national security documents.

During legal arguments in January, Trump’s lawyers made the case that a president should enjoy broad immunity from criminal prosecution as a former executive, even if he were to order the assassination of a political rival using the elite SEAL Team 6.

Trump attorney John Sauer told a three-judge panel at the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals that a former president can only be criminally prosecuted if he has been tried and convicted by the Senate.

The argument at the time was widely panned as ridiculous; James Pearce, an attorney with special counsel Jack Smith, who is overseeing the Trump federal convictions, told the judges that Sauer had outlined a “frightening future.”


“What kind of world are we living in … if a president orders his SEAL team to murder a political rival and then resigns or is not impeached — that is not a crime?“ Pearce said at the time.

Trump’s arguments failed in the D.C. appellate court, leading to an appeal to the Supreme Court, which has a conservative majority after Trump appointed three lifetime-serving judges to the high bench.

The high court ruled 6-3 along ideological lines July 1 to give the president absolute immunity for actions taken from “core constitutional powers” that are bestowed upon taking the Oval Office.

U.S. Chief Justice John Roberts argued that a president is already immune from civil liabilities for actions taken while in office, and that shield should be extended to criminal prosecution to ensure the executive branch can effectively carry out its functions without fear of prosecution.

But liberal judges harshly dissented. Justice Sonia Sotomayor in a scathing dissent referred to the SEAL Team 6 scenario or a commander in chief organizing a military coup, saying the Supreme Court has given the president a “loaded weapon” in awarding such broad immunity.

“Even if these nightmare scenarios never play out, and I pray they never do, the damage has been done,” she wrote. “The relationship between the President and the people he serves has shifted irrevocably. In every use of official power, the President is now a king above the law.”

Congressional Democrats also reacted with alarm after the ruling.

“Under this ruling, if a President, in their official capacity, orders the military to kill other Americans — judges, elected officials, reporters, your neighbor – they can do so,” Rep. Zoe Lofgren (D-Calif.) said. “I think most Americans, and I include myself, think that should be a crime.”

While a president can still be criminally prosecuted for unofficial acts, any order issued to the military is a clear official act. A U.S. service member would not enjoy the president’s same immunity, but the White House could also offer pardons for being loyal. However, a federal pardon would not apply to violations of state law.

Geoffrey Corn, director of the Center for Military Law and Policy at Texas Tech University School of Law, said the most extreme scenarios, like using a Navy SEAL team to assassinate a political rival, is unlikely because a president would want to avoid obviously breaking the law, even if he faces no legal consequences.

Instead, he pointed to more “subtle” scenarios, like when Trump tried to invoke the Insurrection Act in 2020 to quell Black Lives Matter protests with the military and National Guard.

“This incentivizes abuse of power. If you are the president, and you perceive no adverse criminal consequence from ordering what all of the lawyers around are saying is illegal,” Corn said, “and you don’t really worry about political consequence because you have no fear that you’re going to be removed by impeachment, what’s holding you back?”

“By turning the military into a tool to advance your political agenda, that has risk,” he added.

U.S. service members are obligated to carry out legal orders unless it is clearly illegal, though making that distinction has always been murky.

The Pentagon and each of the military branches have attorneys with the Judge Advocate General’s Corps (JAG) for service members to consult in such cases.

Pentagon press secretary Maj. Gen. Pat Ryder noted after the ruling that service members follow the Uniform Code of Military Justice, which lays out criminal law and military-specific codes, such as desertion or disobeying a superior commander.

Ryder said lawyers are always available, and that does not change after the Supreme Court ruling.

“That’s going to enable any leader, regardless of the decision or the order that they’re contemplating, to make informed legal and ethical decisions,” Ryder said at a Tuesday briefing.

Aside from White House lawyers who are likely to justify a president’s decision, a higher-ranking set of lawyers, such as the Army’s general counsel, may also advance controversial or illegal orders.

That could conflict with JAG lawyers on the lower end of the chain of command who may see a clear illegal order, thus creating “chaos” across the ranks, Corn said.

“Ultimately, the person with the greatest risk is the commander who … has to decide, ‘Am I going to obey this order and risk my own [life] and take the risk that in the future, a new administration is going to come in and say everybody who was involved in implementing this order committed a crime?’” he said.

“Or am I going to disobey the order and take the risk that the current president is going to prosecute me for willful disobedience of an order?” he added.

Eugene Fidell, visiting lecturer and senior research scholar at Yale Law School, said the Supreme Court “rolled the dice for future presidents” and will force service members to also roll the dice.

“People are trained to follow orders,” he said, “not to resist them.”




Trump’s former Sec. Def. Mark Esper: “[Trump] was suggesting that...we should bring in the troops and shoot the protesters.” Q: “The commander-in-chief was suggesting that the U.S. military shoot protesters?” Esper: “Yes, in the streets of our nation’s capital.” (May 2022)

Trump is almost certainly going to be the president of the United States. So fill in the remaining blanks.


@TR_123456 @Yasar_TR @Ryder @Heartbang @Afif
 

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GR_ZmkkbQAAZB4x


Biden is now being given instructions on every issue.

Including when he will go on stage.

This is the level of Biden's dementia.
 

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Supreme Court immunity ruling raises questions about military orders​


The Supreme Court’s stunning ruling giving presidents immunity from prosecution for official acts raises serious questions about orders issued by the commander in chief to the military, especially if those commands clearly violate U.S. or international law.

A commander in chief with broad immunity from criminal prosecution would have more power and leeway in issuing controversial orders that the military is in most cases obligated to carry out, according to the chain of command.

The Supreme Court ruling, which came in a case related to former President Trump’s efforts to overturn the 2020 election, has sparked general fears about an abuse of power using the military, but also particular concerns about Trump, who has promised to exact revenge if he retakes the White House.

While there may be legal challenges down the line, experts say the ruling does not extend immunity protections for commanders and enlisted service members who carry out the president’s orders.


Victor Hansen, professor of law at the New England School of Law in Boston, explained that service members still have to adhere to legal standards even if the president does not, and said the Supreme Court ruling “flips the dynamic on its head.”

“Now you have the subordinates who have not all of the authority but all of the responsibility,” said Hansen, who served a 20-year career as a military lawyer in the U.S. Army. “And you have a guy at the top who has all the authority and none of the responsibility.”

“It is, in my humble opinion, an absurd and damaging ruling,” he added.

The ruling decided a challenge from Trump’s legal team to a case in Washington, D.C., courts related to the Jan. 6, 2021, riot and other efforts by Trump and his allies to keep power after the 2020 election. His lawyers are now arguing the ruling should apply to a separate case in Florida, where he is charged with illegally keeping classified records, including national security documents.

During legal arguments in January, Trump’s lawyers made the case that a president should enjoy broad immunity from criminal prosecution as a former executive, even if he were to order the assassination of a political rival using the elite SEAL Team 6.

Trump attorney John Sauer told a three-judge panel at the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals that a former president can only be criminally prosecuted if he has been tried and convicted by the Senate.

The argument at the time was widely panned as ridiculous; James Pearce, an attorney with special counsel Jack Smith, who is overseeing the Trump federal convictions, told the judges that Sauer had outlined a “frightening future.”


“What kind of world are we living in … if a president orders his SEAL team to murder a political rival and then resigns or is not impeached — that is not a crime?“ Pearce said at the time.

Trump’s arguments failed in the D.C. appellate court, leading to an appeal to the Supreme Court, which has a conservative majority after Trump appointed three lifetime-serving judges to the high bench.

The high court ruled 6-3 along ideological lines July 1 to give the president absolute immunity for actions taken from “core constitutional powers” that are bestowed upon taking the Oval Office.

U.S. Chief Justice John Roberts argued that a president is already immune from civil liabilities for actions taken while in office, and that shield should be extended to criminal prosecution to ensure the executive branch can effectively carry out its functions without fear of prosecution.

But liberal judges harshly dissented. Justice Sonia Sotomayor in a scathing dissent referred to the SEAL Team 6 scenario or a commander in chief organizing a military coup, saying the Supreme Court has given the president a “loaded weapon” in awarding such broad immunity.

“Even if these nightmare scenarios never play out, and I pray they never do, the damage has been done,” she wrote. “The relationship between the President and the people he serves has shifted irrevocably. In every use of official power, the President is now a king above the law.”

Congressional Democrats also reacted with alarm after the ruling.

“Under this ruling, if a President, in their official capacity, orders the military to kill other Americans — judges, elected officials, reporters, your neighbor – they can do so,” Rep. Zoe Lofgren (D-Calif.) said. “I think most Americans, and I include myself, think that should be a crime.”

While a president can still be criminally prosecuted for unofficial acts, any order issued to the military is a clear official act. A U.S. service member would not enjoy the president’s same immunity, but the White House could also offer pardons for being loyal. However, a federal pardon would not apply to violations of state law.

Geoffrey Corn, director of the Center for Military Law and Policy at Texas Tech University School of Law, said the most extreme scenarios, like using a Navy SEAL team to assassinate a political rival, is unlikely because a president would want to avoid obviously breaking the law, even if he faces no legal consequences.

Instead, he pointed to more “subtle” scenarios, like when Trump tried to invoke the Insurrection Act in 2020 to quell Black Lives Matter protests with the military and National Guard.

“This incentivizes abuse of power. If you are the president, and you perceive no adverse criminal consequence from ordering what all of the lawyers around are saying is illegal,” Corn said, “and you don’t really worry about political consequence because you have no fear that you’re going to be removed by impeachment, what’s holding you back?”

“By turning the military into a tool to advance your political agenda, that has risk,” he added.

U.S. service members are obligated to carry out legal orders unless it is clearly illegal, though making that distinction has always been murky.

The Pentagon and each of the military branches have attorneys with the Judge Advocate General’s Corps (JAG) for service members to consult in such cases.

Pentagon press secretary Maj. Gen. Pat Ryder noted after the ruling that service members follow the Uniform Code of Military Justice, which lays out criminal law and military-specific codes, such as desertion or disobeying a superior commander.

Ryder said lawyers are always available, and that does not change after the Supreme Court ruling.

“That’s going to enable any leader, regardless of the decision or the order that they’re contemplating, to make informed legal and ethical decisions,” Ryder said at a Tuesday briefing.

Aside from White House lawyers who are likely to justify a president’s decision, a higher-ranking set of lawyers, such as the Army’s general counsel, may also advance controversial or illegal orders.

That could conflict with JAG lawyers on the lower end of the chain of command who may see a clear illegal order, thus creating “chaos” across the ranks, Corn said.

“Ultimately, the person with the greatest risk is the commander who … has to decide, ‘Am I going to obey this order and risk my own [life] and take the risk that in the future, a new administration is going to come in and say everybody who was involved in implementing this order committed a crime?’” he said.

“Or am I going to disobey the order and take the risk that the current president is going to prosecute me for willful disobedience of an order?” he added.

Eugene Fidell, visiting lecturer and senior research scholar at Yale Law School, said the Supreme Court “rolled the dice for future presidents” and will force service members to also roll the dice.

“People are trained to follow orders,” he said, “not to resist them.”




Trump’s former Sec. Def. Mark Esper: “[Trump] was suggesting that...we should bring in the troops and shoot the protesters.” Q: “The commander-in-chief was suggesting that the U.S. military shoot protesters?” Esper: “Yes, in the streets of our nation’s capital.” (May 2022)

Trump is almost certainly going to be the president of the United States. So fill in the remaining blanks.


@TR_123456 @Yasar_TR @Ryder @Heartbang @Afif
Trump 2024: This time it's personal.

I've been rubbing my hands in participation so bloody hard that I can toast a loaf of bread with my bare fucken hands!
 

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