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Lordimperator

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Gary

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kalem bro, ya kalau ada keterlibatan oknum UNRWA pada serangan 7 Okt, ya patut diusut, dan juga negara yg di bold supply senjata-rudal ke Hamas.

Katakanlah ada 'sangkaan' keterlibatan 'oknum' UNRWA. Dimana-mana nih ya, sebelum ada nya sanksi, ada putusan, ada gugatan, ada proses hukumnya, dicari fakta, dibuktikan secara hukum berdasarkan barang bukti, lalu keluar putusan apakah bersalah atau tidak. Setelah keluar putusan baru lah pihak-pihak yang berkaitan mengambil langkah, misal nih memutus aliran dana ke UNRWA

Yang terjadi adalah, tidak ada proses hukum sama sekali dan cuma bermodal sangkaan dan tuduhan (yang nuduh pun israel biadab yang terkenal tukang bohong) trus tiba-tiba aliran dana UNRWA putus.

Sebenarnya kalau mau jujur semua orang tau kenapa kok tiba-tiba aliran dana putus setelah bacaan ICJ. Ga perlu jadi pakar sains politik untuk melihat kalau ini adalah 'balas dendam' nya negara-negara so called rule based order karena bacaan ICJ tidak sesuai harapan mereka. Jadi tantrum deh, dan cara mereka membalas adalah menambah penderitaan orang lain.

So called 'rule based order' is fraud, nothing less. Di thread Russo-Ukraina gw udah bilang dan debat panjang lebar sama member sok iya cam Woland, contricus dan Kathirz, ga ada bedanya Amerika dengan negara-negara 'rogue' atau 'diktatorial' cam Russia atau China. Yang membedakanannya adalah Barat itu posisi nya Hegemon, dan hegemon cenderung menghindari perang karena mereka cenderung menikmati dunia yang mereka kendalikan di bawah kaki mereka, bukan karena mereka surperior secara moral. Kalau misalnya dibalik, China atau Russia yang jadi hegemon, sudah bisa dipastikan Amerika yang memulai perang a la Russia di Ukraina.

Sekarang tuduhan gw, mengenai mitos superioritas moral Barat itu akhirnya terbukti sendiri juga.
 

Lordimperator

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Katakanlah ada 'sangkaan' keterlibatan 'oknum' UNRWA. Dimana-mana nih ya, sebelum ada nya sanksi, ada putusan, ada gugatan, ada proses hukumnya, dicari fakta, dibuktikan secara hukum berdasarkan barang bukti, lalu keluar putusan apakah bersalah atau tidak. Setelah keluar putusan baru lah pihak-pihak yang berkaitan mengambil langkah, misal nih memutus aliran dana ke UNRWA

Yang terjadi adalah, tidak ada proses hukum sama sekali dan cuma bermodal sangkaan dan tuduhan (yang nuduh pun israel biadab yang terkenal tukang bohong) trus tiba-tiba aliran dana UNRWA putus.

Sebenarnya kalau mau jujur semua orang tau kenapa kok tiba-tiba aliran dana putus setelah bacaan ICJ. Ga perlu jadi pakar sains politik untuk melihat kalau ini adalah 'balas dendam' nya negara-negara so called rule based order karena bacaan ICJ tidak sesuai harapan mereka. Jadi tantrum deh, dan cara mereka

So called 'rule based order' is fraud, nothing less. Di thread Russo-Ukraina gw udah bilang dan debat panjang lebar sama member sok iya cam Woland, contricus dan Kathirz, ga ada bedanya Amerika dengan negara-negara 'rogue' atau 'diktatorial' cam Russia atau China. Yang membedakanannya adalah Barat itu posisi nya Hegemon, dan hegemon cenderung menghindari perang karena mereka cenderung menikmati dunia yang mereka kendalikan di bawah kaki mereka, bukan karena mereka surperior secara moral. Kalau misalnya dibalik, China atau Russia yang jadi hegemon, sudah bisa dipastikan Amerika yang memulai perang a la Russia di Ukraina.

Sekarang tuduhan gw, mengenai mitos superioritas moral Barat itu akhirnya terbukti sendiri juga.
Ya gak usah bikin launcher di pemukiman warga.

Mau gak "sok iye" gimana, gampangnya mana mau satu suara dengan supply amunisi Russia macam Iran dan China. Ukraina satu hal lain, gausah jadi bias gara gara stance Ukraina di Palestina, kalau yg sokong juga dari Iran.

Ga ada moral, adanya kepentingan masing masing.
 

Gary

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Ya gak usah bikin launcher di pemukiman warga.

Yang bikin launcher di pemukiman warga...Hamas. Bukan UNRWA.


Ga ada moral, adanya kepentingan masing masing.

Sebenarnya sih ini udah pengetahuan umum, bedanya Barat menutupi kepentingan mereka dengan embel-embel 'rules based'. Akhirnya kan mereka juga yang susah. Dan ini imbasnya sih ke Ukraina ujung-ujungnya, karena dari pandangan orang awam...oh gak bedanya toh ngibul nya Putin dengan omong kosng State Dept Amerika pas ditanyain wartawan mengenai Gaza.

Dan sekarang karena semua orang tau ini cuman masalah kepentingan, bukan masalah moral, invasi Putin ke Ukraina diam-diam bisa lebih diterima, loh kenapa ? yah karena berdasarkan teori kepentingan (dan bukan moral) Russia punya kepentingan 'menjinakkan' Ukraina untuk keamanan nasional, dan hard cold geopolitic, iya toh ?
 

GraveDigger388

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Yang bikin launcher di pemukiman warga...Hamas. Bukan UNRWA.




Sebenarnya sih ini udah pengetahuan umum, bedanya Barat menutupi kepentingan mereka dengan embel-embel 'rules based'. Akhirnya kan mereka juga yang susah. Dan ini imbasnya sih ke Ukraina ujung-ujungnya, karena dari pandangan orang awam...oh gak bedanya toh ngibul nya Putin dengan omong kosng State Dept Amerika pas ditanyain wartawan mengenai Gaza.

Dan sekarang karena semua orang tau ini cuman masalah kepentingan, bukan masalah moral, invasi Putin ke Ukraina diam-diam bisa lebih diterima, loh kenapa ? yah karena berdasarkan teori kepentingan (dan bukan moral) Russia punya kepentingan 'menjinakkan' Ukraina untuk keamanan nasional, dan hard cold geopolitic, iya toh ?
Makes sense, if you ask me
 

satria

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Polisi Tangkap 3 Warga Negara Meksiko Penembak Warga Negara Turki di Bali



ko bisa dapet senjata?
 

NEKO

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Pemilu 2 minggu lagi, apapun pilihannya pokoknya:
 

schuimpjes

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Foreign Policies of all Presidential Candidates from their representatives speeches and answers in USINDO

01 by Tom Lembong. 29:12

02 by Hashim Djojohadikusumo, Prabowo’s younger brother. Short in 8:43, more specific in 9:26

03 by Gen. (ret.) Andika Perkasa. 24:13 and 27:54 (more specific answer 32:30). Talking about specific topic of continue to make postponed/cancelled oil drilling facility in North of Natuna after complained by China. Asserting dominance of that we have the rights there, our EEZ.

01 and 03 talked about the Constitutional Court problem (which harming separation of powers) and talking more about democratic conditions compared to 02.
 

Lordimperator

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If this is true, and that means the science to do such is possible and a reality, why isn't there any legitimate question for Western sourced weapons? I mean the science is clearly there, what's stopping the French for example to secretly code the Rafale so that it couldn't fire towards our 2nd enemy, Australia ?
history dictates there is no kill switch for western made. they do it via embargos, veto on export license so it couldnt fall to their adversaries and they limit the weapon range. also our main adversary is China, then why do we bother invites Australia to our exercise * super garuda.

I put the reply on Warkop,
 

Gary

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history dictates there is no kill switch for western made. they do it via embargos, veto on export license so it couldnt fall to their adversaries and they limit the weapon range. also our main adversary is China, then why do we bother invites Australia to our exercise * super garuda.

I put the reply on Warkop,

History dictates ?

History dictates that the West is the loudest when it comes to human rights until Israel broke it and not only they're all silent, they become complicit.

History dictates that it was the West that came up with the Geneva Convention and the rule of war until Israel could just enter a hospital and shoot people dead while in a coma in a hospital room.

History dictates amounts to nothing, just because they're not doing it yet, doesn't mean they're not going to do so if they find it necessary.

Like it or not, with or without China at the front door, we are not the West, will never be the West, and should not be the West. There's always that hidden behind smile reality that we and them are different and one day fate could be meant that we are going to fight each other.

Our softening to Australia vice versa is just politics, it doesn't hide that these two nations are incompatible with each other and Indonesia, until it can sufficiently arm itself must not make itself overly reliant on one side. This is not the 'bebas aktif' bullshit, this is realpolitik for us, China is bad, and so are the West, the problem is now China is the bigger bad option, that's it.
 

NEKO

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Our softening to Australia
The interesting thing about ID-OZ bilateral relationship is the up-down trend, we are currently have rather good relationship but I won't be surprised if somehow not far in the future will be crashing down. Kek harga sembako aja, fluktuasi.
 

Lordimperator

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History dictates ?

History dictates that the West is the loudest when it comes to human rights until Israel broke it and not only they're all silent, they become complicit.

History dictates that it was the West that came up with the Geneva Convention and the rule of war until Israel could just enter a hospital and shoot people dead while in a coma in a hospital room.

History dictates amounts to nothing, just because they're not doing it yet, doesn't mean they're not going to do so if they find it necessary.

Like it or not, with or without China at the front door, we are not the West, will never be the West, and should not be the West. There's always that hidden behind smile reality that we and them are different and one day fate could be meant that we are going to fight each other.

Our softening to Australia vice versa is just politics, it doesn't hide that these two nations are incompatible with each other and Indonesia, until it can sufficiently arm itself must not make itself overly reliant on one side. This is not the 'bebas aktif' bullshit, this is realpolitik for us, China is bad, and so are the West, the problem is now China is the bigger bad option, that's it.
Welp its up to you, since your argument fueled with dissappointment toward western policy maker. I dont want these discussions dragged onto Palestine-Israel. Its just go bleak for them.

I mean:
Exocet on USS Stark, HMS Shieffield, Iranian F14,
 

Lordimperator

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LoL, hating US yet our biggest ally on the pacific just because their dumb policy on MEA.
 

Lordimperator

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France also sent their LHD as hospitalship. Still hating Rafale?
 

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Just a quick example ... Why the british doesn't have a proper aviation industry nowadays ?? Thanks to it's biggest ally... Directly or indirectly ... Now , the brits only picking up a scraps...
There isn't an eternal friend ...only eternal benefit .
 

Lordimperator

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Just a quick example ... Why the british doesn't have a proper aviation industry nowadays ?? Thamks to it's biggest ally... Directly or indirectly ... Now , the brits only picking up a scraps...
Should've followed France with its independent policy. Dont forget PRC also got their submarine tech from the USA back then.
 

Gary

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Welp its up to you, since your argument fueled with dissappointment toward western policy maker. I dont want these discussions dragged onto Palestine-Israel. Its just go bleak for them.

I mean:
Exocet on USS Stark, HMS Shieffield, Iranian F14,

What I'm trying to say is...just because they haven't done it yet, doesn't mean they will not do it.

It's ridiculous to think that the real intent of any nations is backed up only by what we knew from how they behave in past. I don't think any serious statesmen think like this else they're dead already
 

Lordimperator

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What I'm trying to say is...just because they haven't done it yet, doesn't mean they will not do it.

It's ridiculous to think that the real intent of any nations is backed up only by what we knew from how they behave in past. I don't think any serious statesmen think like this else they're dead already
If we dont learn from the past, we might be the same fate as Dutch Indies invaded by IJA.
For statesman, there is only eternal interest (more or less same as ravager mentioned) if our interest align, i dont see why do we miss the chance tho.

Do you want to detach like the Duterte did, kicked the US from Subic only to be bullied by CCG again?
 

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