TR Missile & Smart Munition Programs

[Cabatli_TR]

Gökçe family's overall design is quite similar to the Spice-2000's. Probably, the main difference will again be in the guidance technology. In the future, infrared guidance will be included in all our munitions.

 

[Oublious]

I hope ther will be something about Gezgin and Siper to see.

 

[Philip the Arab]

I thought it would use TJ-150 which is why I mentioned the SPEAR.

 

[Philip the Arab]

Addition of an imported turbojet engine will make Kuzgun too expensive. We need to produce the engine ourselves.

Isnt TJ-150 mass produced for JSOW and SPEAR meaning costs should go down because of scaling?

 

[Cabatli_TR]

I hope ther will be something about Gezgin and Siper to see.

It is time to introduce Gezgin, Siper, Gökhan and Bora-2. Some should take a cold shower in this fair.

 

[Huelague]

Kuzgun modular missile family will be available in different variants and the primary consideration was the development of Kuzgun in different diameters and weight (50+ and 100+kg). Judging from the mock-up, the prototypes will be developed around 100kg missiles. All of the variants to he introduced in IDEF have laser seeker heads, so they will not have fire-forget mode. With the integration of infrared guidance in next variants, the missiles will go beyond the SpikeNlos concept. Spike Nlos has a weight of 70kg according to the information available in open sources and is effectively marketed for both on land and naval warships. The Kuzgun-KY model, which will exceed 100kg weight, will not only provide effective engagement from longer ranges than Spike NLOS, but also will have superior ability to destroy the target with its heavier warhead. An Akinci-B (750hpx2) equipped with Kuzgun TJ or Kuzgun-KY will likely become a nightmare for the enemy land troops, armor and air defence systems.

Destruction of warhead is not only depend on weight.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Isnt TJ-150 mass produced for JSOW and SPEAR meaning costs should go down because of scaling?

JSOW does not have an engine. But JSOW-ER does. It uses a Pratt & Whitney TJ-150 engine. Spear missile has a specially developed P&W TJ-150-3 engine.
Safran initially was charging us for tr40 engines, close to 150K in US dollars. KTJ-3200 will be a lot cheaper. There is no turbojet engine with similar thrust to TJ-150, under 40K even for RC jet planes. Czech PBX company’s TJ100 sells for 65K.
When it comes to US missile manufacturers, there is a price. And for Turkish manufacturers, there is another price. (A small example: US was charging Turkey over 90K for JDAM kits. We indigenously produced the same kit for 27K. They then offered it to us for 25K. Which must have been the price for US companies)
So it is important to produce our own engines for weapons that will be expended in a battle in abundance.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Destruction of warhead is not only depend on weight.

Can you rephrase this please?
Do you mean, the destructive effect of a warhead is not only governed by the explosive’s weight?
If so I agree with you.

 

[Ruhnama]

It is possible. Yes. But when you have two different forces (airforce and navy) that want different missiles for themselves, you get a Harpoon beater and a storm shadow lookalike.
Now that we have Mr Ismail Demir in charge of all new such developments we hope that one Swiss knife that serves both purposes will be possible.

Likely if SOM have capability launch from sea/surface platform it will make this missile like NSM/JSM counterpart. SOM is developed to used in aircrfat (f-35) same like NSM but it also used on ship

If we know that SOM has long range attcak capability it can serve Land atack missile from ship like harpooon lookalike or russian Klub

 

[Cabatli_TR]

Destruction of warhead is not only depend on weight.

Warhead types (blast, fragmentation, shaped charge, continuous rod) are selected according to the mission profile so Turkish missiles are sometimes named with different block names according to warhead types and guidance differences. Eventually, the destructive effect is provided by the content of the explosive. The greater the explosive amount, the more devastating the warhead's destructive effect will be. Some emit and burn a shock wave over a wide area, some use the shock wave to penatrate a certain area of target and some create an effect with the separate detonation of the explosives they spread around in the form of particles. Ultimately, its destructive power is the explosive itself. Depth of impact or the management of the gas and shock wave released by the detonation is a matter of the type of warhead.

 

[Khagan1923]

T929 + Kuzgun-KY. Congrats you have an death machine that can destroy its targets from 30km-40km away without even being seen.

Kuzgun is an underrated project. It will be a force multiplier not only for Air but for Navy and Land too with its different variants.

Now imagine MIUS+Kuzgun for SEAD/DEAD.

 

[Combat-Master]

They aren't in the same class. Kuzgun-KY (solid fuel) is a 100kg missile. Umtas is a lot smaller and lighter. Kuzgun-KY is even bigger than Spike-NLOS. IMHO it is what a real NLOS missile should be. Kuzgun is very flexible and will be a force multiplier for airforce, land forces, and navy. Think about this rather than UMTAS-L navy USVs or ships can carry Kuzgun-KY or even TJ with a small booster. T-129 Atak will be very deadly with Kuzgun missiles. UAVs will wreak havoc on anything. Anka with 350kg payload can carry 2 Kuzgun and 6 MAM-L. Akıncı can carry like 10 Kuzgun.

Kuzgun-KY will more likely come in closer to 50kg and be Turkey's version of the British Brimstone strike missile.

Kuzgun-KY​	Brimstone​

Kuzgun-TJ​	SPEAR 3​

 

[Yasar_TR]

Likely if SOM have capability launch from sea/surface platform it will make this missile like NSM/JSM counterpart. SOM is developed to used in aircrfat (f-35) same like NSM but it also used on ship

If we know that SOM has long range attcak capability it can serve Land atack missile from ship like harpooon lookalike or russian Klub

This was discussed in detail in previous page.
See #1926

 

[TheInsider]

Kuzgun-KY will more likely come in closer to 50kg and be Turkey's version of the British Brimstone strike missile.

Kuzgun-KY​	Brimstone​
View attachment 27402​	View attachment 27401​

Kuzgun-TJ​	SPEAR 3​
View attachment 27404​	View attachment 27408

I don't like that. I would rather have Umtas-ER than a 50kg Kuzgun-KY missile.

 

[TheInsider]

BTW. I don't want to spoil the surprises but IDEF'21= Missile and smart ammo show. Some of the products will give nightmares to some countries.

 

[Hexciter]

Kuzgun-KY will more likely come in closer to 50kg and be Turkey's version of the British Brimstone strike missile.

Kuzgun-KY​	Brimstone​
View attachment 27402​	View attachment 27401​

Kuzgun-TJ​	SPEAR 3​
View attachment 27404​	View attachment 27408

And Kuzgun-S (or -K, but I’m not sure) is on par with SDB-2 of Americans

 

[Ryder]

BTW. I don't want to spoil the surprises but IDEF'21= Missile and smart ammo show. Some of the products will give nightmares to some countries.

Also we will be getting more videos from our favourite Greek guy

 

[Ryder]

Honestly I do watch his videos for some reason.

He just never bores me.

 

[Combat-Master]

I don't like that. I would rather have Umtas-ER than a 50kg Kuzgun-KY missile.

An extended ranged UMTAS wouldn't be suitable for fast-jet operations nor have the added autonomous strike capability. Roketsan should develop an affordable NLOS type missile from UMTAS, similar to Spike-NLOS.

 

[Cabatli_TR]

One of the applications considered for Brimstone missils. Launchers integrated into an unmanned ground vehicle. Probably, this missile is thought to increase its effectiveness within the network centric concept and two way data-link capability. An Alpagu-style loitering munition may be more effective in this concept, but such a UGV can inflict hell on enemy tank, air defence and other military value targeta with Kuzgun in multi-launch, maybe swarm mode if it can be organized effectively.

Concepts can mislead but considering the launcher-human size as a concept, ground-based Kuzgun missiles will be quite large in size, most likely the 100kg version was thought if nothing change in development period.