China’s ‘Carrier-Killer’ Missiles, J-20 Jets Gives Beijing A Decisive Edge Over The US In Indo-Pacific: US Experts

xizhimen

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China’s ‘Carrier-Killer’ Missiles, J-20 Jets Gives Beijing A Decisive Edge Over The US In Indo-Pacific: US Experts

ByParth Satam
September 5, 2021

Far East Asia is considered the next global flashpoint. With two superpowers — the US and China — flexing their military muscles in the disputed South China Sea (SCS), this could very well turn into a conventional war – an outcome the world dreads.


The region has three major conflict zones in the same contiguous geography – the Korean Peninsula, the Taiwan Strait, and SCS. Each of these has China as a party to the dispute and the US in the opposing camp, where any minor clash on any one of the issues could possibly ignite the other two.

However, it would be prudent to take an overview of how the countries fare against one another and which has an edge over the other, for an informed opinion on the issue.

China’s ‘Home Advantage’
Experts say China holds the ‘home advantage’ in the South China Sea, where physical control over some of the islands in addition to artificial features in the Spratlys and Senkaku (or Diaoyu in Chinese) allows it to defend them more successfully. Moreover, being close to the mainland allows better logistics flow that would support a long war.


ChinaYJ18_missile.jpg

China’s YJ-18 anti-ship cruise missile.


Second, China’s ‘Anti-Access/Area Denial (A2/AD)’ doctrine has influenced the development of ultra-long-range weapons systems that knocks out enemy platforms from afar and prevents close combat.

Based on the concept of “not allowing the enemy to come close to the mainland”, China has developed missiles that outrange any of the US weapons in that class.

The YJ-18 and YJ-12 supersonic anti-ship cruise missiles (range 540 km) and the PL-15 beyond visual range air-to-air missile (300 km), outrange the US’ subsonic 240-km range Harpoons and the 161-km AIM 190D.

The YJ-18 is carried on Type 052 and Type 055 guided-missile destroyers, while US Navy’s Ticonderoga-class cruisers and Arleigh Burke-class destroyers carry the Harpoons and the surface-to-air SM-6s, the latter that can reach between 230 and 250 km.

E-LW-NDWEAAOp-k

PLA Air Force J-20 fighter jets patrol in the East China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone. (via Twitter)


The PL-15, combined with the J-20, experts believe would be used in ‘sniping mode’ where the aircraft will slip past fighter screens using a combination of stealth and jamming and knock out enemy airborne early warning, transport, and air-to-air refueling aircraft.
This degrades the logistical and surveillance capability of the adversary, instead of facing off its main fighting forces head-on.
US Carriers Could Be Sitting Ducks
Their pride and joy, the DF-21D missile (range 1,500 km) that threaten US aircraft carriers, operate on a similar philosophy. Called the ‘carrier killer’, the missile is totally unconventional, where it follows a ballistic trajectory like a strategic nuclear missile, leaves the atmosphere, and re-enters it to release a re-entry vehicle that propels down to hit an aircraft carrier.

The anti-ship ballistic missile (ASBM) is the first (and probably the only one) of its class. The unorthodox system and doctrine had left the US Navy at a complete loss.

“We are at a disadvantage with regard to China today in the sense that China has ground-based ballistic missiles that threaten our basing in the Western Pacific and our ships,” former US Pacific Command (PACOM, now INDOPACOM) commander Admiral Harry Harris, said in testimony before the US Senate Armed Services Committee in March 2018.


Harris also admitted that the US has “no equivalent” to missiles like the 4,000 km range DF-26 ballistic missile that can strike US bases at Guam. US bases in South Korea and Japan are meanwhile threatened by the 1,500 km range CJ-10 land-attack cruise missile, according to Pentagon estimates.

While experts believe the DF-21D to be unsuccessful without well-networked surveillance and targeting infrastructure, China is well on its way to develop that too.

Former US Marine Corps Officer Robert Haddick and visiting Senior Fellow at the Mitchell Institute for Aerospace Studies tells Reuters that it is a “very big gap”, adding “China’s anti-ship missile capability exceeds those of the United States in terms of range, speed, and sensor performance.”

Does The US Have Capacity Advantage?
While the US does exceed in capacity since the Arleigh Burke and Ticonderoga carry 96 and 122 Vertical Launch Silos (VLS) cells, as against the Type 052 and Type 55’s 64 and 112 VLS.

This leaves the ‘capacity’ advantage redundant since the Chinese side can fire first from a distance that is outside the range of US ships.

“The range disadvantage ends up being decisive. The US does not get a chance to exploit its capacity advantage. What could US ships be launching in response? At the ranges we are talking about, nothing,” former USN officer Bryan Clark, currently with the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments, told Business Insider.

Third, experts also warn against merely increasing US force presence in the Western Pacific without securing basing rights with countries to host them. Without bases, the US would have poor aircraft sortie generation rates, bigger naval ship repair timelines, and slower troop redeployments.


For instance, the Philippines has decided to terminate the Visiting Forces Agreement (VFA) with the US, which envisaged US forces based on islands controlled by Manila in Scarborough Shoal.
This makes the South China Sea (SCS) even farther away for the US military, which would have to travel all the way from Japan. Japan itself is seeing Okinawans protesting the US military base there, demanding American forces vacate the island.
Finally, Pentagon-commissioned war games by the Rand Corporation have repeatedly ended in devastating defeats for the ‘Blue Team’ (US forces). According to former Deputy Assistant Secretary for Defence David Ochmanek, China can just swarm US and Taiwanese forces with thousands of ships, fishing craft, barges, aircraft, and missiles to overwhelm USN submarines, Harpoons and Long-Range Anti-Ship Missiles (LRSAM).

“We are playing an away game against China. For years the Blue Team has been in shock because they didn’t realize how badly off they were in a confrontation with China.”

 

Gary

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The YJ-18 is carried on Type 052 and Type 055 guided-missile destroyers, while US Navy’s Ticonderoga-class cruisers and Arleigh Burke-class destroyers carry the Harpoons and the surface-to-air SM-6s, the latter that can reach between 230 and 250 km.
While the US does exceed in capacity since the Arleigh Burke and Ticonderoga carry 96 and 122 Vertical Launch Silos (VLS) cells, as against the Type 052 and Type 55’s 64 and 112 VLS.

This leaves the ‘capacity’ advantage redundant since the Chinese side can fire first from a distance that is outside the range of US ships.
Ticonderoga and Burke's carry Tomahawk in their MK41 VLS. and it's range are similar

Their pride and joy, the DF-21D missile (range 1,500 km) that threaten US aircraft carriers, operate on a similar philosophy. Called the ‘carrier killer’, the missile is totally unconventional, where it follows a ballistic trajectory like a strategic nuclear missile, leaves the atmosphere, and re-enters it to release a re-entry vehicle that propels down to hit an aircraft carrier.

For instance, the Philippines has decided to terminate the Visiting Forces Agreement (VFA) with the US, which envisaged US forces based on islands controlled by Manila in Scarborough Shoal.

no they don't
 

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At this point would the Chinese be more worried by 4 American carrier groups or 40 SSK in the South China sea?

The Entire Chinese strategy has been to push the American carriers out and allow their navy and air force to freely operate in the South China sea. Which the Chinese have successfully achieved, the Americans have done nothing to counter this. The way you defeat anti-access area denial is with your own AAAD capabilities. The Americans have none. So the Chinese will break out of the first island chain and engage the American carrier groups. Sinking them or being defeated and pulling back into the South China sea.

This is something the Russians never came close to achieving in the Baltic or Black sea, because the Americans put all their efforts into building up the Swedish/Germans/Turkey, so the Russians couldn't dominate those waters. Then with the British and Japanese in the GIUK gap and Pacific to counter the Russians. The Americans have made no such effort with the Philippines, Malaysia, Viet Nam and Taiwan. Only now are these nations building navies/air forces/armies/missile defences to counter the Chinese. Sure the Koreans and Japanese are strong and will resist China, not allowing them to link their navies together. But the Chinese now dominate the South China sea, its like Russia dominating the Baltic. It changes the power balance and the Americans have done nothing to counter it. Or rather the Israel first neo-cons have done nothing because they expected to move to China once they have exploited the English civilization.
 

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At this point would the Chinese be more worried by 4 American carrier groups or 40 SSK in the South China sea?

The Entire Chinese strategy has been to push the American carriers out and allow their navy and air force to freely operate in the South China sea. Which the Chinese have successfully achieved, the Americans have done nothing to counter this. The way you defeat anti-access area denial is with your own AAAD capabilities. The Americans have none. So the Chinese will break out of the first island chain and engage the American carrier groups. Sinking them or being defeated and pulling back into the South China sea.

This is something the Russians never came close to achieving in the Baltic or Black sea, because the Americans put all their efforts into building up the Swedish/Germans/Turkey, so the Russians couldn't dominate those waters. Then with the British and Japanese in the GIUK gap and Pacific to counter the Russians. The Americans have made no such effort with the Philippines, Malaysia, Viet Nam and Taiwan. Only now are these nations building navies/air forces/armies/missile defences to counter the Chinese. Sure the Koreans and Japanese are strong and will resist China, not allowing them to link their navies together. But the Chinese now dominate the South China sea, its like Russia dominating the Baltic. It changes the power balance and the Americans have done nothing to counter it. Or rather the Israel first neo-cons have done nothing because they expected to move to China once they have exploited the English civilization.

The situation is that the US carriers now no longer operate in a manner in which they're confident they're at harms way, but to declare that the PLAN and PLAAF could freely operate in the South China Sea is misleading. Even with US carriers pushed out from the first island chain, there's always the threat of US submarine operating uncontested in those waters.

It's no surprise that in Biden '22 naval budget only calls for one destroyer while allocating more funds to build more Virginia's SSN instead.

Now on the contrary of what you said , the reverse are now applicable to the PLAN operating in the first island chain. In less than 2-3 years the US will field those PrSM, HACSW, ARRW, LRHW long range precision munitions that have been under accelerated testing since at least 2019. Not only that, they appear to have experimented the idea of using fast transport planes to quickly unload-fire-load it's missiles before moving in to other dispersed islands scattered along the Pacific.

This is in addition to Japanese own A2/AD assets in the Miyako strait near Okinawa, while Taiwan itself is basically a floating missile silo with missiles pointed at Beijing.

But I agree though, ASEAN is a weak link in this A2/AD bubble. With only Vietnam operating an operational missile batteries and Indonesia is in process of acquiring such capabilities.
 

xizhimen

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in less than 2-3 years the US will field those PrSM, HACSW, ARRW, LRHW long range precision munitions that have been under accelerated testing since at least 2019. Not only that, they appear to have experimented the idea of using fast transport planes to quickly unload-fire-load it's missiles before moving in to other dispersed islands scattered along the Pacific.
Chinese shipbuilding can do much better than this, US can't match Chinese shipbuilding might. the future is China's.
 

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Chinese shipbuilding can do much better than this, US can't match Chinese shipbuilding might. the future is China's.

Un-necessary chest thumping IMO.

No doubt Chinese ship building is good and fast but how many are in league of US ships is the questions. IMO, real test will be only when they face to face. china might have a edge with SCS being their back yard but china struggling to assert itself in it;s back yard does;t bode well for a country claiming to be a "world Power"

US & recently Indian war ship too have operated freely in chinese waters. IMO, Chinese chest thumping in SCS is nothing more than a nuisance value to keep the pot boiling ... Ultimately, nobody wants war !!!
 

xizhimen

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Un-necessary chest thumping IMO.

No doubt Chinese ship building is good and fast but how many are in league of US ships is the questions. IMO, real test will be only when they face to face. china might have a edge with SCS being their back yard but china struggling to assert itself in it;s back yard does;t bode well for a country claiming to be a "world Power"

US & recently Indian war ship too have operated freely in chinese waters. IMO, Chinese chest thumping in SCS is nothing more than a nuisance value to keep the pot boiling ... Ultimately, nobody wants war !!!
Every country operates freely in SCS, we always guarantee free navigation in those waters, besides, China currently occupies the least islands in SCS, all other claimants occupy more islands than China, they should care more about foreign ships than China.
 

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Every country operates freely in SCS, we always guarantee free navigation in those waters, besides, China currently occupies the least islands in SCS, all other claimants occupy more islands than China, they should care more about foreign ships than China.

Well, you are making it out as if there is no dispute in SCS than ... I wonder what this whole hooplah is all about than :)
 

xizhimen

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Well, you are making it out as if there is no dispute in SCS than ... I wonder what this whole hooplah is all about than :)
There is a dispute between half a dozen nearby countries, PRC only inherited this claim from ROC, ROC(Taiwan) makes exactly the same claim as PRC.
 

kumata

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There is a dispute between half a dozen nearby countries, PRC only inherited this claim from ROC, ROC(Taiwan) makes exactly the same claim as PRC.

Never heard of Taiwan having made any claims or having any dispute with these half dozen countries... that too over SCS...
 

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There is a dispute between half a dozen nearby countries, PRC only inherited this claim from ROC, ROC(Taiwan) makes exactly the same claim as PRC.
So prc is nothing but just a roc with a borrowed communist ideology which they can't reinforce fully ??
 

xizhimen

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Never heard of Taiwan having made any claims or having any dispute with these half dozen countries... that too over SCS...
This is why I said you should learn a bit before speaking.
 

xizhimen

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So prc is nothing but just a roc with a borrowed communist ideology which they can't reinforce fully ??
I don't really care about whether PRC or ROC being the legitimate government of China. They are both fine with me.
 

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China is basically following the Monroe doctrine of the US. You can't complain when the US did the exact same thing to European powers in the Caribbean. Local nations can, but the US can't.

China has the ship building edge, the crew edge, the doctrine edge. China basically has all the naval advantages over the US, apart from the one thing which doesn't matter, technology, and even in that the British have the best ships in the world in terms of technology. The QE class is better than the Ford class, the PAAMS/sea viper system is better than the Aegis system, the Astute class is better than the Virginia class, the Type 26 will be better than the Arleigh Burke class. There is a reason the Chinese send 3 SSN's to track the British strike group, the Astute class would have sunk them all.

So the Americans can't out build, our crew or have right doctrine to beat China and now they don't even have better ships than the British anymore. Also British replenishment ships are better now too.
 

RogerRanger

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Chinese shipbuilding can do much better than this, US can't match Chinese shipbuilding might. the future is China's.
It isn't just China. Japan and South Korea could out build the US at this point. The British replenishment ships were built in South Korea. Basically world ship building has moved from the Atlantic to East Asia. Of the 6 ship yards Britain had, we only have one left.
 

kumata

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This is why I said you should learn a bit before speaking.

LOL ..It can;t be more ironic that a china man pretending to be a wolf in sheep cloths...

So basically China is world peaceful country rest all is western propaganda... Mao must be laughing in his grave on seeing on seeing the success of his brain washing experiment.
 

xizhimen

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LOL ..It can;t be more ironic that a china man pretending to be a wolf in sheep cloths...

So basically China is world peaceful country rest all is western propaganda... Mao must be laughing in his grave on seeing on seeing the success of his brain washing experiment.
China hasn't fired a single bullet to any foreign countries for almost 40 years, how about India and US?
 

kumata

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China hasn't fired a single bullet to any foreign countries for almost 40 years, how about India and US?

True... Since the Chinese lady boys were busy preparing their feminine features...So when time came , they resorted to medieval tactics and got their necks broken....

One need steel balls to fire a bullet... Pls look within yourself why china did not fired a single bullet.. Don,t ask me... !!!!!!!!!

I am not on chinese CCP payroll
 

xizhimen

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True... Since the Chinese lady boys were busy preparing their feminine features...So when time came , they resorted to medieval tactics and got their necks broken....

One need steel balls to fire a bullet... Pls look within yourself why china did not fired a single bullet.. Don,t ask me... !!!!!!!!!

I am not on chinese CCP payroll
LoL, So called Chinese lady boys beat the shit out of your in 1962 and won tons of gold medals in both Olympic Games and World Military Games, how does tough Indians fare in those international competition events?
 

kumata

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LoL, So called Chinese lady boys beat the shit out of your in 1962 and won tons of gold medals in both Olympic Games and World Military Games, how does tough Indians fare in those international competition events?

I know u have nothing to contribute ... Will Ignore ur further posts on this thread !!!!!!
 

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