The Russian S-400 row: Turkey-US defense ties break apart

[Bogeyman]

By Arda Mevlütoğlu

In his interview with CBS television which aired on September 24th, President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan gave very important messages with regards to Turkish – US relations. The tone of Erdoğan’s messages was remarkably bold.
When asked about Turkey’s purchase of the second batch of S-400 air defense systems from the Russian Federation, Erdoğan replied, “…No one can interfere with what kind of defense systems we buy from which country. No one can interfere with this. Only we make these decisions. Commenting on the air force (more precisely, the combat aircraft fleet of the air force), Erdoğan said that “…air defense systems alone will not be enough. Defense systems are different, the air force is different. Do I have a guarantee that it will continue? Since there will be no such guarantee, maybe then we will have to take very different steps.” He also stated that Turkey had paid $1.4 billion for F-35 combat aircraft but denied delivery. He also reiterated that the US failed to sell Patriot air defense systems on time, which was decisive in the selection of the S-400.

Turkey-US defense structures are breaking up​

Shortly after this interview, an anonymous US State Department official spoke to Reuters saying that, “We continue to make clear to Turkey that any significant new Russian arms purchases would risk triggering CAATSA 231 sanctions separate from and in addition to those imposed in December 2020”.
These words of President Erdoğan are extremely important in terms of both content and timing.
In terms of content, it confirms that the defense industry and military cooperation, which constitute the main backbone of Turkey-US relations, has almost completely broken off, despite being partners in the Western defense alliance, NATO.
The importance of his statements in terms of timing stems from the fact that they were made just after he visited the USA on the occasion of the 76th General Assembly of the United Nations and just before he meets with Russian leader Vladimir Putin in Sochi scheduled for September 29.
It is useful to summarize the background before moving on to the evaluations of content and timing.
Many assessments and comments have been made by many interested, knowledgeable, irrelevant, and uninformed people in Turkey regarding the purchase, reasons, and impact of the S-400 air defense system from the Russian Federation. Therefore, this article does not have the purpose of conveying -once again- the history of the S-400 purchase. However, reminding the important milestones of the process up to the acquisition of the second S-400 system will make it easier to make predictions about the future.

The before and after of the S-400s​

The first candidate for Turkey’s requirement for an air and missile defense system, which came to the agenda in the early 1990s, was naturally the US-made Patriot system. The Patriot was the natural candidate, as there was no other Western-made equivalent air defense system capable of intercepting tactical ballistic missiles and capable of hitting warplanes and other air targets at long range. The Franco-Italian SAMP/T system was to enter service only in the early 2010s.
Both budgetary constraints and the insufficient maturity of ballistic missile interceptor technology (as a matter of fact, during the 1991 Gulf War, Patriot batteries are considered to have a success rate of around 50% against SCUD and derivative missiles fired by Iraq against Israel and Saudi Arabia), delayed the supply of these systems.
Russia, which offered the Antey 2500, which is the predecessor of the S-400, in the tender called LORAMIDS, was excluded from the competition from the very beginning after it put forward an extremely high price tag of approximately $8.4 billion. In September 2013, China’s offer for FD-2000 was selected as the winner and the decision shocked the USA and NATO. China’s offer was around $3.44 billion, and it was followed by the $4.4 billion SAMP/T and $4.6 billion Patriot offers respectively
According to the statements of the Directorate of Defense Industries (SSB), LORAMIDS was a tender to procure an off-the-shelf system to meet the requirements of Turkey until it develops its own indigenous long-range air defense system. Co-development and co-production were not top priorities; local industry contribution was of third priority. However, the contract negotiations with China which were at the end of 2013 were terminated in November 2015 on the grounds of disagreement on technology transfer and co-production. Turkey announced that focus and priority would be given to developing the indigenous system: The LORAMIDS tender was shelved.

Effects of Syria and coup attempt on the S-400 decision​

Two important developments took place before this decision of Turkey: At first, from the end of 2014, the United States started cooperating with PYD/YPG, the Syrian branch of the PKK (considered as a terrorist organization both by Turkey and the US) as its main partner in Syria and started to provide intensive weapons and training assistance. Then, as of August 2015, the USA and Germany started to withdraw the Patriot air defense system batteries they deployed to Turkey as part of NATO assistance against the possible air threat from Syria.
The coup attempt that took place on July 15, 2016, and US reluctance to show solidarity with and support to Turkey thereinafter was another blow to bilateral relations. Furthermore, the fact that the perpetrator of the attempt, the Islamist preacher Fethullah Gülen has been living in the USA under the auspices of the government agencies, was also influential in the collapse of the already strained relations.
Against the background of such a military-diplomatic environment, in the autumn of 2016, right after the coup attempt Turkey started negotiations with Russia for the purchase of the S-400 system. The contract, signed in April 2017 covered two S-400 systems, one of which is an option. The delivery of the first system took place in July 2019, and the test firing was carried out in October 2020.
In due course, the Trump administration increasingly showed discontent and finally in December 2020 decided to impose sanctions on SSB and its executives under CAATSA. On the other hand, the US also removed Turkey from the F-35 project and canceled the delivery of six F-35A jets produced for the Turkish Air Force.

US sanctions did not deter Turkey​

At this point, it should be reminded that Turkey has not yet taken a concrete counter-movement against the CAATSA sanctions and its removal from the F-35 project, except for statements and discourses.
The content of President Erdoğan’s statement is remarkable in terms of both the purchase of the second S-400 system and the maintenance and logistics support of the F-16 aircraft. It is almost certain that the purchase of the second S-400 system will trigger additional CAATSA sanctions, as the US administration has made statements regarding this issue several times.
Turkey received a total of 270 F-16 warplanes, under three separate projects between 1987 and 2012, for which Erdoğan expressed his doubts about the continuation of logistics support. These aircraft were purchased through the US’s foreign military sales (FMS) export mechanism. In the FMS process, the product is purchased by the US government from the contractor and re-sold to the recipient country. The FMS system has several advantages, especially from contract and procurement management and long-term sustainment standpoints. In turn, FMS is a method of procurement that comes with political constraints and conditions. In addition, the US government has very strict after-sales inspection and control mechanisms.

Ankara considers F-16 project risks​

Although bilateral relations were strained, under normal circumstances problems in logistics support and sustainment of Turkey’s F-16 fleet would be out of the question since these aircraft were delivered via FMS and is a subject of long-term military-technical cooperation.
However, President Erdoğan’s words reflect that there might a serious problem (or a great risk thereof) in one of the most important and long-term cooperation topics in Turkish-American military relations, such as the F-16. He also states that in such a scenario, Turkey could take counter-steps. What these counter-steps might be is the subject of technical and political analysis. “It is worth reminding that Russian President Vladimir Putin personally briefed Erdoğan on the newly developed Su-57 fighter jet during MAKS air show in Moscow in August 2019. Russian defense executives also occasionally mention a possibility of cooperation on Turkey’s national combat jet program, the MMU“
As for the timing of the statement, it would be sufficient not further from early September. Foreign Minister Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu said on September 7 that, “…if we can agree on certain terms and conditions and if the US Congress approves, we might purchase the Patriot system even if it’s more expensive. We have to buy it from somewhere”. Çavuşoğlu also made a similar statement in June by saying, “If the US does not guarantee the Patriot, we can buy air defense systems from our other allies, such as the SAMP/T.”

US and Turkey: do they see each other as partners?​

Between these remarks and those of Erdoğan, the only significant event is Erdoğan’s visit to the United States. The fact that there had not been a meeting between President Erdoğan and US President Joe Biden during this visit and that even a pose was not given during the UN General Assembly can be taken as crucial signs. During the UNGA, Biden held meetings with leaders of the UK, Australia, India, France, Japan, South Korea, and Iraq, some of them by video conference or telephone call.
In such an environment, the statements regarding the second S-400 purchase were first given to the foreign press was the American CBS television, right after the US visit.
Since 2014-15, the US has shown in different ways that it does not see Turkey as a partner in its regional policies. Turkey’s purchase of the second S-400 air defense system from Russia is also highly likely to trigger additional CAATSA sanctions by the US. It is possible to read Erdoğan’s statements in his interview as a reaction to not being addressed both individually, diplomatically, and strategically.
On the other hand, it should be noted that Turkish – Russian relations are at a very delicate balance, especially in Syria and Ukraine – Crimea issues. This might impact Erdoğan’s negotiation power against Putin, including the purchase of the second S-400 system.

The Russian S-400 row: Turkey-US defense ties break apart - Yetkin Report

The row over Turkey's purchase of Russian S-400s shows that Turkey-US defense ties are breaking apart despite being two NATO countries.

yetkinreport.com

 

[Kaptaan]

By Arda Mevlütoğlu

In his interview with CBS television which aired on September 24th, President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan gave very important messages with regards to Turkish – US relations. The tone of Erdoğan’s messages was remarkably bold.
When asked about Turkey’s purchase of the second batch of S-400 air defense systems from the Russian Federation, Erdoğan replied, “…No one can interfere with what kind of defense systems we buy from which country. No one can interfere with this. Only we make these decisions. Commenting on the air force (more precisely, the combat aircraft fleet of the air force), Erdoğan said that “…air defense systems alone will not be enough. Defense systems are different, the air force is different. Do I have a guarantee that it will continue? Since there will be no such guarantee, maybe then we will have to take very different steps.” He also stated that Turkey had paid $1.4 billion for F-35 combat aircraft but denied delivery. He also reiterated that the US failed to sell Patriot air defense systems on time, which was decisive in the selection of the S-400.

Turkey-US defense structures are breaking up​

Shortly after this interview, an anonymous US State Department official spoke to Reuters saying that, “We continue to make clear to Turkey that any significant new Russian arms purchases would risk triggering CAATSA 231 sanctions separate from and in addition to those imposed in December 2020”.
These words of President Erdoğan are extremely important in terms of both content and timing.
In terms of content, it confirms that the defense industry and military cooperation, which constitute the main backbone of Turkey-US relations, has almost completely broken off, despite being partners in the Western defense alliance, NATO.
The importance of his statements in terms of timing stems from the fact that they were made just after he visited the USA on the occasion of the 76th General Assembly of the United Nations and just before he meets with Russian leader Vladimir Putin in Sochi scheduled for September 29.
It is useful to summarize the background before moving on to the evaluations of content and timing.
Many assessments and comments have been made by many interested, knowledgeable, irrelevant, and uninformed people in Turkey regarding the purchase, reasons, and impact of the S-400 air defense system from the Russian Federation. Therefore, this article does not have the purpose of conveying -once again- the history of the S-400 purchase. However, reminding the important milestones of the process up to the acquisition of the second S-400 system will make it easier to make predictions about the future.

The before and after of the S-400s​

The first candidate for Turkey’s requirement for an air and missile defense system, which came to the agenda in the early 1990s, was naturally the US-made Patriot system. The Patriot was the natural candidate, as there was no other Western-made equivalent air defense system capable of intercepting tactical ballistic missiles and capable of hitting warplanes and other air targets at long range. The Franco-Italian SAMP/T system was to enter service only in the early 2010s.
Both budgetary constraints and the insufficient maturity of ballistic missile interceptor technology (as a matter of fact, during the 1991 Gulf War, Patriot batteries are considered to have a success rate of around 50% against SCUD and derivative missiles fired by Iraq against Israel and Saudi Arabia), delayed the supply of these systems.
Russia, which offered the Antey 2500, which is the predecessor of the S-400, in the tender called LORAMIDS, was excluded from the competition from the very beginning after it put forward an extremely high price tag of approximately $8.4 billion. In September 2013, China’s offer for FD-2000 was selected as the winner and the decision shocked the USA and NATO. China’s offer was around $3.44 billion, and it was followed by the $4.4 billion SAMP/T and $4.6 billion Patriot offers respectively
According to the statements of the Directorate of Defense Industries (SSB), LORAMIDS was a tender to procure an off-the-shelf system to meet the requirements of Turkey until it develops its own indigenous long-range air defense system. Co-development and co-production were not top priorities; local industry contribution was of third priority. However, the contract negotiations with China which were at the end of 2013 were terminated in November 2015 on the grounds of disagreement on technology transfer and co-production. Turkey announced that focus and priority would be given to developing the indigenous system: The LORAMIDS tender was shelved.

Effects of Syria and coup attempt on the S-400 decision​

Two important developments took place before this decision of Turkey: At first, from the end of 2014, the United States started cooperating with PYD/YPG, the Syrian branch of the PKK (considered as a terrorist organization both by Turkey and the US) as its main partner in Syria and started to provide intensive weapons and training assistance. Then, as of August 2015, the USA and Germany started to withdraw the Patriot air defense system batteries they deployed to Turkey as part of NATO assistance against the possible air threat from Syria.
The coup attempt that took place on July 15, 2016, and US reluctance to show solidarity with and support to Turkey thereinafter was another blow to bilateral relations. Furthermore, the fact that the perpetrator of the attempt, the Islamist preacher Fethullah Gülen has been living in the USA under the auspices of the government agencies, was also influential in the collapse of the already strained relations.
Against the background of such a military-diplomatic environment, in the autumn of 2016, right after the coup attempt Turkey started negotiations with Russia for the purchase of the S-400 system. The contract, signed in April 2017 covered two S-400 systems, one of which is an option. The delivery of the first system took place in July 2019, and the test firing was carried out in October 2020.
In due course, the Trump administration increasingly showed discontent and finally in December 2020 decided to impose sanctions on SSB and its executives under CAATSA. On the other hand, the US also removed Turkey from the F-35 project and canceled the delivery of six F-35A jets produced for the Turkish Air Force.

US sanctions did not deter Turkey​

At this point, it should be reminded that Turkey has not yet taken a concrete counter-movement against the CAATSA sanctions and its removal from the F-35 project, except for statements and discourses.
The content of President Erdoğan’s statement is remarkable in terms of both the purchase of the second S-400 system and the maintenance and logistics support of the F-16 aircraft. It is almost certain that the purchase of the second S-400 system will trigger additional CAATSA sanctions, as the US administration has made statements regarding this issue several times.
Turkey received a total of 270 F-16 warplanes, under three separate projects between 1987 and 2012, for which Erdoğan expressed his doubts about the continuation of logistics support. These aircraft were purchased through the US’s foreign military sales (FMS) export mechanism. In the FMS process, the product is purchased by the US government from the contractor and re-sold to the recipient country. The FMS system has several advantages, especially from contract and procurement management and long-term sustainment standpoints. In turn, FMS is a method of procurement that comes with political constraints and conditions. In addition, the US government has very strict after-sales inspection and control mechanisms.

Ankara considers F-16 project risks​

Although bilateral relations were strained, under normal circumstances problems in logistics support and sustainment of Turkey’s F-16 fleet would be out of the question since these aircraft were delivered via FMS and is a subject of long-term military-technical cooperation.
However, President Erdoğan’s words reflect that there might a serious problem (or a great risk thereof) in one of the most important and long-term cooperation topics in Turkish-American military relations, such as the F-16. He also states that in such a scenario, Turkey could take counter-steps. What these counter-steps might be is the subject of technical and political analysis. “It is worth reminding that Russian President Vladimir Putin personally briefed Erdoğan on the newly developed Su-57 fighter jet during MAKS air show in Moscow in August 2019. Russian defense executives also occasionally mention a possibility of cooperation on Turkey’s national combat jet program, the MMU“
As for the timing of the statement, it would be sufficient not further from early September. Foreign Minister Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu said on September 7 that, “…if we can agree on certain terms and conditions and if the US Congress approves, we might purchase the Patriot system even if it’s more expensive. We have to buy it from somewhere”. Çavuşoğlu also made a similar statement in June by saying, “If the US does not guarantee the Patriot, we can buy air defense systems from our other allies, such as the SAMP/T.”

US and Turkey: do they see each other as partners?​

Between these remarks and those of Erdoğan, the only significant event is Erdoğan’s visit to the United States. The fact that there had not been a meeting between President Erdoğan and US President Joe Biden during this visit and that even a pose was not given during the UN General Assembly can be taken as crucial signs. During the UNGA, Biden held meetings with leaders of the UK, Australia, India, France, Japan, South Korea, and Iraq, some of them by video conference or telephone call.
In such an environment, the statements regarding the second S-400 purchase were first given to the foreign press was the American CBS television, right after the US visit.
Since 2014-15, the US has shown in different ways that it does not see Turkey as a partner in its regional policies. Turkey’s purchase of the second S-400 air defense system from Russia is also highly likely to trigger additional CAATSA sanctions by the US. It is possible to read Erdoğan’s statements in his interview as a reaction to not being addressed both individually, diplomatically, and strategically.
On the other hand, it should be noted that Turkish – Russian relations are at a very delicate balance, especially in Syria and Ukraine – Crimea issues. This might impact Erdoğan’s negotiation power against Putin, including the purchase of the second S-400 system.

The Russian S-400 row: Turkey-US defense ties break apart - Yetkin Report

The row over Turkey's purchase of Russian S-400s shows that Turkey-US defense ties are breaking apart despite being two NATO countries.

yetkinreport.com

People wrongly look at South China, India or Australia as the thumbprint for the emerging dynamo of the 21st century. The reality the real pivot of the 21st century is Turkey. Where goes Anatolia will largely measure out the geopolitics of the this century.

Nothing could be more catastrophic to the western order then Turkey leaving NATO. Indeed it would officially spell the end of US global hedgemony and give a boost to the new aspirant China.

And I think Erdogan knows. He intends to gouge USA for every shekel or lose it.

 

[GoatsMilk]

People wrongly look at South China, India or Australia as the thumbprint for the emerging dynamo of the 21st century. The reality the real pivot of the 21st century is Turkey. Where goes Anatolia will largely measure out the geopolitics of the this century.

Nothing could be more catastrophic to the western order then Turkey leaving NATO. Indeed it would officially spell the end of US global hedgemony and give a boost to the new aspirant China.

And I think Erdogan knows. He intends to gouge USA for every shekel or lose it.

Completely wrong. The moment the USA turns against Turkey completely, the Russians knowing Turkey is in a corner will screw her. If it comes to war the great powers will basically cut a deal with each other to divide Turkey. Turks have that almost unique position where nearly the entire world will take enjoyment from seeing Turks fall.

The americans, the europeans, the russians, the isrealis, the persians, even the chinese all have a vested interest in seeing Turkey divided. Turkey exists today because she was intelligent enough to play the powers of each other, but the moment you fail at that you end up uniting the great powers against Turkey.

We saw a small glimpse of this with the Americans and Russians co-ordinating their movements against Turkey to protect the pkkistan project.

Now if Turkey had nuclear weapons and the means to deliver them, she can potentially go her own way but without it Turkey is exceptionally vulnerable to weak leadership decisions.

 

[GoatsMilk]

s400 was brought to pressure the USA for their support of the YPG. It didnt gain Turkey any leverage against the USA and it didnt gain Turkey any favours from Russia who since that purchase killed Turkish troops and has fought against us in Syria, Libya and Azerbaijan.

Erdogan is doubling down like a gambler whose almost lost it all.

 

[Ryder]

Completely wrong. The moment the USA turns against Turkey completely, the Russians knowing Turkey is in a corner will screw her. If it comes to war the great powers will basically cut a deal with each other to divide Turkey. Turks have that almost unique position where nearly the entire world will take enjoyment from seeing Turks fall.

The americans, the europeans, the russians, the isrealis, the persians, even the chinese all have a vested interest in seeing Turkey divided. Turkey exists today because she was intelligent enough to play the powers of each other, but the moment you fail at that you end up uniting the great powers against Turkey.

We saw a small glimpse of this with the Americans and Russians co-ordinating their movements against Turkey to protect the pkkistan project.

Now if Turkey had nuclear weapons and the means to deliver them, she can potentially go her own way but without it Turkey is exceptionally vulnerable to weak leadership decisions.

People forget that the Americans have been hostile to the Turks for decades.

Our Turkish independance war the American navy bombed Samsun and occupied parts of our coasts like Bandirma.

Usa has never been an ally or even a friend for that matter but a hostile entity to the Turks. The Americans for short time fought against us in the Turkish independance war.

I highly suggest looking up the bombardment of Samsun.

USA even wanted to turn Turkey into a mandate after ww1. This whole s400 issue is not the only thing when the USA has done numerous hostile shit against us.

Time to close incirlik down and kick the Americans out.

 

[Kaptaan]

Completely wrong

Reading your post, you have actually validated what I said. That Turkey is a fulcrum of 21st century geopolitics even more than the last century. And I don't think Turks are that weak militarily or as a nation that they can be 'screwed over' by Russians.

I think Erdogan is playing within the latitude offered by the strategic realities that exist.

 

[Cabatli_TR]

Mr Özülker:
"The USA is uncomfortable with Turkey. Because Turkey does not give allegiance anymore. There is no place for the disobedient in American philosophy. Turkey gradually began to grow. July 15 opened our eyes. A bad neighbor would make a person a landlord. This fact is the basis of the successful struggle of our defense industry towards nationalization and the feeling of trust created by it. We have been positioned as disobedient partners with the USA. And from here came CAATSA.

The USA asked Turkey, "You have become good friends with Russia, where are you going?" as a deviation from the basic goals in NATO. The S-400 issue is an excuse. The issue is that Turkey is growing and uncontrollable as a result."


SSB Mr Alper Köse:
"Regarding the negative effects of Turkey's desire to use its own preferences and alternative opportunities on the United States; they are losing customers, they are losing us. Second; we develop a system or product, produce technology and compete with them, Third; We have the opportunity to sell to other countries, and from there they lose customers and market share. In fact, one of the concerns behind the S-400 is that the US air defense system is not as good as the S-400, and other countries prefer the S-400, which negatively affects its market share. The best part is that we are now developing our own air defense system."

SSB Yuksel Unal:
"In fact, we have been seeing CAATSA for years, implicitly or openly. They apply policies to keep Turkey in a certain position according to their own aims and wishes, according to the world structures. There are different things here. Turkey has a technological development. The possibility of us being a country that produces solutions to the world is disturbing, as they see the effort to transform technological development into products based on scientific data. I am of the opinion that there is this concern in the moves made by the global powers that adversely affect all our policies."


Mr. Unal:
"Since we have known for a long time that we will face embargoes, we are working on many issues with our Armed Forces and related units. Especially since 2016, with the Euphrates Shield, we have been able to go to the field together with our engineers and make analyzes in line with the needs coming from the operational areas, and we have been able to carry out effective works for the field and to increase the capabilities of the TAF, and offer solutions. As of the stage we have reached, our industry, sub-industry and the academy that can serve them, issues related to design and production have developed. With a new model, a new breakthrough, we need to turn them into products and bring them to a level where we can show them on the field. When we bring this, we will be a country that is fully independent, maybe standing, maybe a global power. Our current dynamics also force us to do so. We are no longer in the situation we were in 1985. We have human resources, engineers, benches and infrastructure in many fields. We can design with our university professors, allocate resources for them, and now integrate them."

 

[GoatsMilk]

Reading your post, you have actually validated what I said. That Turkey is a fulcrum of 21st century geopolitics even more than the last century. And I don't think Turks are that weak militarily or as a nation that they can be 'screwed over' by Russians.

I think Erdogan is playing within the latitude offered by the strategic realities that exist.

FETO whose owned by the USA, who were critical in AK party coming to power, made Turkey dive first head into Syria. The American owned Islamists at the time joined the American war, whose only aim was to weaken Turkey, weaken Assad and empower the balkanisation of Syria against Turkey and to the ultimate benefit of Isreal.

Everytime Turkey said they could end the problem in Syria the americans/europeans made sure Turkey couldnt achieve anything, with threats of sanctions and embargoes.

This "failed politics" is how you end up with a situation where both the USA and Russia is against Turkey in Syria. Turkey should have worked to maintain the status quo in Syria until they were strong enough to enter the fight to create facts on the ground. For example if the syria war would have started now as oppossed to 10 years ago, the Turkish military with her highly advanced drone warfare doctrine could have ended that conflict to the benefit of Turkey. Instead they went too soon and took too long.

Today Turkey has to sit back and watch both Russia and America arm the YPG against her.

The way they entered syria, the way they played the game was a failure. Turkish geography is too critical to play the game this poorly.

Politically we have been shockingly inept. Where Turkey is winning is really in two fields. One is her domestic military development, as Turkey develops more things she has more options. The second has been that when the army has been deployed really since 2016, the first incursion into syria she has performed exceptionally well.

Her campaigns in syria while politics damaged their objectives, the military performed good. That performance was then taken to Libya. Haftar whose army was even in tripoli supported by gulf finance, Russian mercerises and French intelligence agents was pushed back by a small Turkish contingent.

In Azerbaijan its speculated that Turkish generals really over saw that war, either way it was partly the drone warfare doctrine that Turkey developed that utterly crushed Armenia.

Then recently in Ethipoia, the guy is losing he visits Turkey and then a month later the tirgray marxist terrorists are also crushed.

Those two developments is where we are winning and neither really have anything to do with AK party.

 

[Ryder]

FETO whose owned by the USA, who were critical in AK party coming to power, made Turkey dive first head into Syria. The American owned Islamists at the time joined the American war, whose only aim was to weaken Turkey, weaken Assad and empower the balkanisation of Syria against Turkey and to the ultimate benefit of Isreal.

Everytime Turkey said they could end the problem in Syria the americans/europeans made sure Turkey couldnt achieve anything, with threats of sanctions and embargoes.

This "failed politics" is how you end up with a situation where both the USA and Russia is against Turkey in Syria. Turkey should have worked to maintain the status quo in Syria until they were strong enough to enter the fight to create facts on the ground. For example if the syria war would have started now as oppossed to 10 years ago, the Turkish military with her highly advanced drone warfare doctrine could have ended that conflict to the benefit of Turkey. Instead they went too soon and took too long.

Today Turkey has to sit back and watch both Russia and America arm the YPG against her.

The way they entered syria, the way they played the game was a failure. Turkish geography is too critical to play the game this poorly.

Politically we have been shockingly inept. Where Turkey is winning is really in two fields. One is her domestic military development, as Turkey develops more things she has more options. The second has been that when the army has been deployed really since 2016, the first incursion into syria she has performed exceptionally well.

Her campaigns in syria while politics damaged their objectives, the military performed good. That performance was then taken to Libya. Haftar whose army was even in tripoli supported by gulf finance, Russian mercerises and French intelligence agents was pushed back by a small Turkish contingent.

In Azerbaijan its speculated that Turkish generals really over saw that war, either way it was partly the drone warfare doctrine that Turkey developed that utterly crushed Armenia.

Then recently in Ethipoia, the guy is losing he visits Turkey and then a month later the tirgray marxist terrorists are also crushed.

Those two developments is where we are winning and neither really have anything to do with AK party.

Turkish military is what stops Turkey from breaking apart.

Lets be honest chp and akp none of the parties have the interests of the country in their heart.

People in Turkey trust their military more than their politicians.

 

[GoatsMilk]

Turkish military is what stops Turkey from breaking apart.

Lets be honest chp and akp none of the parties have the interests of the country in their heart.

People in Turkey trust their military more than their politicians.

Its a shame that more soldiers, especially the ones who wrongly convicted by feto/ak party don't enter the political scene. But the problem is that men of honour generally don't succeed in the filthy dirty game that is politics. Politics is filled with career politicians who will lie, cheat and steal to make it to the top.

Just imagine if those Turkish military deployments were failures, the game would be over for Turkey as a viable sovereign state. Its almost like our army exists to clean up all the political mistakes of our government.

Its really for this reason that american owned feto in collusion with AK party worked day and night to try and destroy the army from within, convicting countless patriots under trumped up lies and deceptions. But like the saying goes, "they plan, but Allah is the best of planners". It seems like no matter how many plots are enacted against Turkey, the country never seems to fold. FETO literally took over the entire state, it had its political party in power. The courts, the media, the schools, the ngo's, almost everything was in their hands, yet here we are today and Turkey is fighting across multiple continents.

Unfortunately the common Turk is easily fooled in the political sphere, we need an army that has the power to reset the political sphere when it fails to perform. Until the common Turk develops his personal comprehension skills, we need an army that can protect the state from trash like ak party or communist lovers the chp.