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Jagdflieger

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“200.000 Papuan are imprisoned because identified as ‘potential trouble makers’ “, mixed feeling about it, smells like discrimination still.
If these 200,000 Uighur's are imprisoned because they repeatedly broke the law - then they are sentenced criminals. I never hear of any country being accused of "discrimination" because of sending criminals to prison. Just because these specific criminals happen to be Muslims - doesn't exclude them from the law. China does not discriminate against religion - but the speeches or preaching of priests or Mullahs has to be in accordance with the law. Beijing has not altered or reprinted the Bible or the Koran. Religious customs are not hindered or being discriminated upon if they are in accordance with the law. as such e.g. Muslim's are not allowed to have 4 wife's.
If you believe that a Chinese citizen is not being allowed to have 4 wife's is "discrimination" - then that would be your personal view.

The other 15 million Uighur's are law abiding citizens and none of them are imprisoned, harassed or being discriminated. However among those ca. 500,000 vocational trainees around 100-200,000 are not permitted to leave the training facilities before their 1 year period ends, because they are categorized as being "unwilling to work".

I personally know around a dozen Chinese Muslim's - 4 of them are Xinjiangnese - none of them is being discriminated or being looked down upon. However it is noticeable that the Xinjiangnese do not show interest towards integrating themselves or congregating with Han Chinese. A behavior that I am very familiar with regarding Muslims e.g. Turkish people living in Germany. Due to many Turkish people having been born in Germany in the past 50 years and as such being German citizens - this issue has become less prominent - but it still exists.

That is why I NEVER bring in or discuss religion other then with close friends (incl. Muslims) - because it simply doesn't matter to me. I judge people upon their behavior and deeds, not upon their respective religion.
Whatever it is, it is Nazi move to forcefully imprisoned hundred of thousands of people without they break any rules. But the party owns the country, they can do ‘anything’, free estate.
No one in China is imprisoned without breaking a or several laws. No one in China is imprisoned simply due to his religion. Your Nazi comparison simply doesn't stick.
If something happens, I’m sure UN would doing nothing also.
If what happens? arresting and imprisoning criminals?
Your country
Sorry - China isn't MY country - I simply live there and adhere to the laws of my host-country, just as any other countries laws that I visit, thus I have never encountered any problems.
already elegantly ‘bought’ lot of countries, no way they would vote to the resolutions against your country. Smart move, no joke, there would be hardly any ‘law enforcement’ activities for what China do. Literally applause for it, genius.
You seem to be very influenced by anti-China propaganda.
Any country or private person asking for a loan is subjected/ committed towards the loan-contract - if one doesn't agree to those terms - well then simply don't sign it. Signing upon a loan contract and then complaining about it is simply ignorant or just a hypocrite action.
Edit: The last way to stop human rights violators is by eliminate/forcefully capture them, so there would be no more human rights violations. This logic could be used against China. By whom? mmm those who usually needs no UN approval maybe. That’s ok too
Again imprisoning a criminal has nothing to do with human rights.
E.g. Hong-Kong - according to HK law one needs to obtain a permission to organize a demonstration - exactly the same law exists in Germany. If one gets caught up in an unlawful demonstration (no permission) one broke the law and will be punished accordingly. Naturally the same applies towards demonstrators that provoked or actively participated in violent/harmful actions. (That person will go to prison and it has nothing to do with human rights).

Those people that stormed the Capitol building in the USA - imprisoning them means that the USA is violating human rights? you are very wrong if you believe so.
A Turkish citizen joining the PKK is according to Turkish law joining a terrorist organization, as such breaking the law and will be imprisoned - again this has nothing to do with human rights.

Are there laws in China or Germany regarding "unwillingness to work"? you can bet there are such laws.
However simply refusing to work will not get you imprisoned in Germany initially - but the line/path such a person is taking will sooner or later get him imprisoned - you can be sure.
 
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Jagdflieger

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*Unwilling to do forced work.
No, unfortunately there are a lot who simply don't work because they have no qualification to find work (hence the vocational training centers) and there are some that simply do not want to work.
I have spend many years in e.g. Malaysia - the same issue applies there. Many especially young Malays simply not willing to work and relying onto the "religious-inspired custom" aka "culture" off, "let the family take care of me". BTW, the same issues can also be found in Indonesia.
 

Umigami

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Look at this abomination. It has a neck. 🤣
 

Van Kravchenko

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Look at this abomination. It has a neck. 🤣
that turret "neck" is a weak spot despite how weak the armor of leo 1 was compared to other 2nd Gen MBT; all I can say it was on par with Panther Ausf. G armor for the hull.

such rise perhaps need to accomodate the presence of turret basket, thus why Kaplan MT have very high silhoute.
 

Jagdflieger

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bagai seorang diplomat ulung. Engkau mengelak
If I would be a diplomat then my answer to you would have been; sorry but I really don't know anything personal about it, but I can forward Beijing's official position to you.
However it was you you placed the question as to the logic of the Uighur situation - and I gave you a precise account as to why and as to how Muslims, Minorities and Uighur's are treated and viewed upon in China.
If you don't like the logic of this issue - well -hey- it's a free world we live in - right? ;)
 

schuimpjes

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If I would be a diplomat then my answer to you would have been; sorry but I really don't know anything personal about it, but I can forward Beijing's official position to you.
However it was you you placed the question as to the logic of the Uighur situation - and I gave you a precise account as to why and as to how Muslims, Minorities and Uighur's are treated and viewed upon in China.
If you don't like the logic this issue - well -hey- it's a free world we live in - right? ;)
Interestingly, that Indonesian words that you quote there are from Indonesian song from Iwan Fals with the title Pesawat Tempurku which means My Fighter Jet.

Nothing personal about that, just quoting a song tho 👍
 

Jagdflieger

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bagai seorang diplomat ulung. Engkau mengelak
Regarding Diplomat - funny story

A German couple had checked into the same hotel as me (Lombok) and was given a very special treatment - extra drinks, super friendly service and super suite.
I asked him - anything special about you? - he said no, not that I know off. After he was addressed in a very unusual way by the staff I went to the counter and asked them - what is special about him?
They told me very exited - you don't know? he is a English Diplomat - I paused for a second replying - oh I see.
Going back to him I asked him how he had checked in. (since he hadn't pre-booked but made a stopover for the night with his rental car)
Well he said; I gave them my name card (business card), show me please I replied
He was a German Architect and had a university degree - so his name card showed: Dipl. Ing. (Master in Engineering) In Indonesian or Sasak obviously interpreted as
Diplomat Ing (Ingris) :D
 

NEKO

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Regarding Diplomat - funny story

A German couple had checked into the same hotel as me (Lombok) and was given a very special treatment - extra drinks, super friendly service and super suite.
I asked him - anything special about you? - he said no, not that I know off. After he was addressed in a very unusual way by the staff I went to the counter and asked them - what is special about him?
They told me very exited - you don't know? he is a English Diplomat - I paused for a second replying - oh I see.
Going back to him I asked him how he had checked in. (since he hadn't pre-booked but made a stopover for the night with his rental car)
Well he said; I gave them my name card (business card), show me please I replied
He was a German Architect and had a university degree - so his name card showed: Dipl. Ing. (Master in Engineering) In Indonesian or Sasak obviously interpreted as
Diplomat Ing (Ingris) :D
Got bamboozled.
 

schuimpjes

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@Jagdflieger How sanctions towards Russia affect Russia–China relations? And how Chinese officials thought about Putin's Russia actually?. I genuinely curious about it, are your government further themselves from Russia or what?

Maybe I have to learn Chinese and start to looking at Chinese internet to even see political trends or else there lol
 

Jagdflieger

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@Jagdflieger How sanctions towards Russia affect Russia–China relations? And how Chinese officials thought about Putin's Russia actually?. I genuinely curious about it, are your government further themselves from Russia or what?
It's not my government :) - I am a German, but I enjoy my life very much in China and S.E.Asia.

Beijing is interested in trade and economic/technical advance. As such having good relationship with both Ukraine and Russia they are certainly not happy about that ridiculous war. Beijing certainly sides with Putin/Russia in regards to being against a further eastwards extension of NATO.
As for getting into a war about it, I think Beijing is rather unhappy about that move since they were aware that Russia does not possess the military means to simply overrun Ukraine in a couple of weeks. But that this is going to be a 1-2 year matter - thus draining Russia of it's economic means and inevitably weakening an important ally of theirs. China however IMO will financially and economically support Russia once this issue is over.

As for the German government; off course they condemn Putin's move. However they are realistic enough to understand that arming Ukraine (so that they can actually reclaim all lost territory, demands an army comprising of modern e.g. 400 Fighter aircraft, 150 ATH, 1500 MBT's, 2000 APC/AFV, 400 MLRS and 1000 heavy artillery, etc. etc. More or less the equivalent of two to three times the German Armed Forces.
To purchase/produce train and deliver such an arsenal takes years. Years that the Ukraine doesn't have, as such small realistic deliveries only prolong a war that Ukraine can't win and only add more dead civilians.
Germany and others have invested billions and billions into Russia's economy - the longer this war takes the less Russia will be a country were money can be made and previous investments to ever show a profit. And an economically run down Russia would possibly proof to be far more dangerous then the present one.

Naturally the German government want's an end to this war. (Even if Ukraine for the time being loses some of it's territory) But of course "officially" Germany will not state that on their own - so they (EU&NATO) will discuss this behind closed doors and come up with a joint statement. (just my opinion) ;)
Maybe I have to learn Chinese and start to looking at Chinese internet to even see political trends or else there lol
To learn Chinese is certainly a great idea since it will be an economic/job advantage to anyone. The internet or public media in China naturally will show Beijing's point of view towards any matter. So do not expect a pro-western view.:)
 

RadenSudirman

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If you're looking at mainstream Chinese media, then anything they published has been approved by the government. So yeah, you can only see what they want you to see. If that's what you're looking for, then go ahead.

Totally unlike here where we can see people freely mocked and insulted the president lol
Well based on these state-sanctioned media, people here are hyped about the PLA, believing them to be a super-competent juggernaut without weakness that will invade Indonesia.


Bonus: Book from French Army for everyone
 

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