Indonesia Indonesian Navy, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Laut (TNI-AL)

[Cromwell]

MICA NG?

No, not that version.

Unless there's an amandment to the contract for MLM packages however there's none, not AFAIK. After this one, they'll go for the rest of The Class.

 

[Cromwell]

I understand with Damen Corvettes ( Diponegoro Class ) as i've posted previously Damen Schelde upgrade packages on SIGMA 9113 to include 8 VL MICA and other subsystems modernisation, i understand the package from Thales on BAe System Corvettes ( Bung Tomo Class ), but i don't understand with the upgrades for Fatahillah Class, Parchim Class and FPB-57 especially Parchim Class, what do we want with this aging units ? What do we want more from them ?

 

[Anmdt]

PAL also can copy similar roadmap, 1 built in Turkey + 1 assembled in Surabaya.

TR doesn't hold the IP rights, only acquired license for 2 hulls that one can be transferred - sold. 1st hull built and equipped in TR. Engineering works were done in Navantia, certain modifications are done in TR (Mast, EMI analysis etc) and scantling - equipping design done in TR, so mainly done by Navantia.

However, Navantia clearly has shown their interest to construct and equip the hulls in TR for export opportunities in later meetings. Since TR was more likely to bag a deal with certain countries and price competitiveness with cheaper labor and steel based shipbuilding industry.

PAL can construct that with assistance from Navantia just as Sedef Shipbuilding has done. But which one PAL going to handle; Submarine, AH140, FREMM or LPD orders?

 

[Lordimperator]

it’s 100% possible, considering the cost of the targeted ship concept (ie Navantia-Sedef TCG Anadolu).

How much does it cost for two anadolu class LHD? How it does compared with Canberra class in term of price?

 

[Lordimperator]

especially Parchim Class, what do we want with this aging units

To be complements as ASW platform with the upcoming FREMM?

 

[Cromwell]

To be complements as ASW platform with the upcoming FREMM?

These things not only already obsolete but also offer no flexibility, during their service in our inventory mostly they serve as patrol units not primarily as ASW units as they were in Volksmarine but then it is no a simple job to replace 14 hulls.

 

[Gary]

Diponegoro should replace those Mistrals with something like a RIM-116.

 

[Gary]

Of the 3 fatahillah's 2 already completed their modernization, only Nala #363 didn't yet receive any modernization.

The contract must be for Nala.

 

[Cromwell]

Diponegoro should replace those Mistrals with something like a RIM-116.

Damen Schelde latest marketed SIGMA 9113 model ( which i posted previously ) offers adding modules, one seen with 8 VL MICA though i don't see any model with RIM-116 however given the flexibility of SIGMA designs just like the one in Mexican Navy POLA programme, it might possible to customers demand.

 

[Lordimperator]

Diponegoro should replace those Mistrals with something like a RIM-116.

Replaced Mistrals with Milenium gun?

 

[Gary]

Damen Schelde latest marketed SIGMA 9113 model ( which i posted previously ) offers adding modules, one seen with 8 VL MICA though i don't see any model with RIM-116 however given the flexibility of SIGMA designs just like the one in Mexican Navy POLA programme, it might possible to customers demand.

Yeah it's time for the Diponegoros to add VLS , the rear Mistral launcher could be dismantled and replaced with RIM, while the forward bridge launcher dismantled without replacement.

The dismantled Tetral launchers could be added to lesser ships like the FPB/KCR or LPDs.

----

As for the Fatahillah's upgrade package, the previous two has different package from different vendors. Nala could follow this path too.

 

[Cromwell]

Yeah it's time for the Diponegoros to add VLS , the rear Mistral launcher could be dismantled and replaced with RIM, while the forward bridge launcher dismantled without replacement.

The dismantled Tetral launchers could be added to lesser ships like the FPB/KCR or LPDs.

----

As for the Fatahillah's upgrade package, the previous two has different package from different vendors. Nala could follow this path too.

The only satisfaction i get, they have no plan to modernise Ahmad Yani Class so it means they indeed plan to retire them. Idk what we are going to do on Parchim Class beyond prolonging operational status for them let's say 10 years. They're cramped small vessels with limited purpose given their dimentional size.

 

[Gary]

The only satisfaction i get, they have no plan to modernise Ahmad Yani Class so it means they indeed plan to retire them. Idk what we are going to do on Parchim Class beyond prolonging operational status for them let's say 10 years. They're cramped small vessels with limited purpose given their dimentional size.

The Parchims are hopeless effort I concur. It's neither a good ASW platform and more KCR/PC-60 would have been better than wasting money on ex-WarPac junk.

Let's just hope whatever modernization doesn't involve all 14 hulls but limited yo just a few most operationally ready hulls.

Parchims and Ex-Korean Pohangs are a waste of time, money and effort. Pretty much summing-up Indonesian defense procurement model.

 

[trishna_amrta]

My side has been informed, the current MoD prefer Rafale Instead. And those F15 EX talks is to replace the Flanker.

This is a very important lesson that must be taken since there's no instant success. It would be unnatural if every first attempt to create something on your own always resulted in a perfect product.

On the other hand, many if not most of the problems in the first batch of products - in this case, the KCR-60 - can be avoided if PT PAL has developed its own truly comprehensive testing methods and equipment, or at least acquired these two from more established shipyards.


True that. But there will be no progress whatsoever if no first step is going to be taken. Since they seem to have gathered enough confidence after developing and building LPDs, it's natural if they want to get their hands on something bigger.

Of course, they should never take anything for granted since the LHD is still something new for them.

Whether PAL can produce it domestically or not is a different question. They can just follow Changabogo production roadmap, and still they can claim it as domestically assembled.

Well said indeed It's about taking that first step. It won't be smooth (and could be messy) but it's a first step that must be taken nonetheless

 

[Gary]

Indian 40mm ?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580830516638425088

 

[Soman45]

Indian 40mm ?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580830516638425088

 

[JATOSINT]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580855182472073216

 

[JATOSINT]

Well said indeed It's about taking that first step. It won't be smooth (and could be messy) but it's a first step that must be taken nonetheless

Exactly, and from what I see, it is 'only' going to be a design demonstration, we are not literally building a LHD/CV

 

[Cromwell]

Some of colleagues, they aren't decision makers yet their opinions shape what decision makers should decide advocate for design purchase from Damen, for Kornas Programme, reviving Kornas programme itself currently is still remain talks

Old plan that never comes to materialisation, inserting AIP into DSME 1400.

 

[Cromwell]

Naval weapon packages in 2021 MBDA contract, one of them is for Indonesia.