• Forum restore complete (see latest announcement thread)

TR Air Forces|News & Discussion

Yasar_TR

Experienced member
Staff member
Administrator
Messages
4,280
Reactions
263 22,349
Nation of residence
United Kingdom
Nation of origin
Turkey
No mention about the version of EF2000 ? which tranche, i suppose it's TR 4.
they just started on the German 54 tranche 4 order, Spain has additional orders too like 45 +, best case scenario, the germans somehow give the go, i assume at least a year and a half of contract negotiations. i don't see how we get those birds before 2028 - 2030 for the 40 jets.

For quick introduction, couple of squadrons of the Tranche-1 upgraded to Tranche-2 to partial 3 set up would actually be the way to go. These planes in majority have already been configured for air to ground missions for the RAF any way.
But to make it simpler to see, below is a list of Typhoon tranches with different capabilities.

1700240539422.jpeg

Whence configured to Tranche-2 or above the planes can fire amraam, meteor and storm shadow missiles.
Germany is upgrading all of its Tranche 2 planes with e-scan Aesa radar. So once upgraded to tranche 2 configuration with some TR-3 equipment, the GFR4 RAF Typhoons can have Aesa radar too; albeit at a cost.
 

Ecderha

Experienced member
Messages
4,552
Reactions
4 7,828
Nation of residence
Bulgaria
Nation of origin
Turkey

I really, really LoL on people here that still ignoring last 10+ years of history related to usa, germany, netherland,france etc...
They are systematically hostile against Turkiye on all matters. They say it, They do it.
Some people here are naive - They like to lie themself.
usa president (germany premier) will bypass own Hostile political behavior toward Turkiye and allow military product to be procured :rolleyes:
 

Ripley

Contributor
Think Tank Analyst
DefenceHub Diplomat
Messages
1,431
Reactions
51 4,581
Nation of residence
United States of America
Nation of origin
Turkey
For quick introduction, couple of squadrons of the Tranche-1 upgraded to Tranche-2 to partial 3 set up would actually be the way to go. These planes in majority have already been configured for air to ground missions for the RAF any way.
But to make it simpler to see, below is a list of Typhoon tranches with different capabilities.

View attachment 63047
Whence configured to Tranche-2 or above the planes can fire amraam, meteor and storm shadow missiles.
Germany is upgrading all of its Tranche 2 planes with e-scan Aesa radar. So once upgraded to tranche 2 configuration with some TR-3 equipment, the GFR4 RAF Typhoons can have Aesa radar too; albeit at a cost.
A while back, Typhoons were on the table by the British
and they were simply eager to dump their T1 aircraft on us (about forty, iirc) without any upgrade or even selling them with upgrade kits, probably because the fear of a German veto.
So, now are we gonna buy those forty T1?
If we buy them, will they let us reconfigure/upgrade them T2 and gradually T3?
 

Afif

Experienced member
Moderator
Bangladesh Correspondent
DefenceHub Diplomat
Bangladesh Moderator
Messages
5,139
Reactions
104 10,047
Nation of residence
Bangladesh
Nation of origin
Bangladesh
A while back, Typhoons were on the table by the British
and they were simply eager to dump their T1 aircraft on us (about forty, iirc) without any upgrade or even selling them with upgrade kits, probably because the fear of a German veto.
So, now are we gonna buy those forty T1?
If we buy them, will they let us reconfigure/upgrade them T2 and gradually T3?

24, not 40 I think.
Also, there was an infromal offer to BAF iirc.
 

Ripley

Contributor
Think Tank Analyst
DefenceHub Diplomat
Messages
1,431
Reactions
51 4,581
Nation of residence
United States of America
Nation of origin
Turkey
24, not 40 I think.
Also, there was an infromal offer to BAF iirc.
Again, it was a while ago and it was one of the items that were on the table. The exact numbers may have missed me. This was a meeting/series of meetings between two governments headed by their respective defense ministers and honestly don’t remember who offered what to whom.
 

Yasar_TR

Experienced member
Staff member
Administrator
Messages
4,280
Reactions
263 22,349
Nation of residence
United Kingdom
Nation of origin
Turkey
A while back, Typhoons were on the table by the British
and they were simply eager to dump their T1 aircraft on us (about forty, iirc) without any upgrade or even selling them with upgrade kits, probably because the fear of a German veto.
So, now are we gonna buy those forty T1?
If we buy them, will they let us reconfigure/upgrade them T2 and gradually T3?
There are 52 tranche-1 planes UK has got . They are all to be gradually retired. All of them can be upgraded to Tranche 2/3 configuration at a cost. Whether Germany has any say on the sale of planes, now owned by RAF is a matter of debate. It has been mentioned that there is a clause in the consortium agreement that no one country should be able to stop another from achieving a sale. But in the case of new planes, since a good deal of engine and body parts are manufactured in Germany, they can stop shipment of those parts if and when it is decided by the German government. This means those parts will have to be manufactured by the remaining 3 nations, which will make it too expensive as they are not geared to do so. But for an already manufactured and sold plane it should be a different case. The only problem being the upgrading to Tranche 2/3 configuration, if must be done by Eurojet GMBH, then it is a handicap to be overcome. (But as they say if there is a will there is a way; UK can get Eurojet to do the upgrades, then sell them to us)
 

Afif

Experienced member
Moderator
Bangladesh Correspondent
DefenceHub Diplomat
Bangladesh Moderator
Messages
5,139
Reactions
104 10,047
Nation of residence
Bangladesh
Nation of origin
Bangladesh
There is good possibility in case of Typhoon sale to Türkiye, France can block the sale of Meteor. Could UK sale Meteor from RAF inventory too? Will RAF agree to it?
 

Nutuk

Contributor
Think Tank Analyst
Messages
1,086
Reactions
12 3,864
Nation of residence
Nethelands
Nation of origin
Turkey
I hope Germany blocks EF2000 with whole my heart.

At least Germans would disable Turkiye to make idiotic moves
 

Bozan

Experienced member
Messages
1,518
Reactions
5 1,844
Nation of residence
United Kingdom
Nation of origin
Turkey

BalkanTurk90

Contributor
Messages
921
Reactions
5 1,355
Nation of residence
Albania
Nation of origin
Turkey
Can Germany aslo block the deal with UK if Turkiye buy UK used typhoons one ? and modernise them after?
 

Bozan

Experienced member
Messages
1,518
Reactions
5 1,844
Nation of residence
United Kingdom
Nation of origin
Turkey
Where is the insult?
Germans are very sensitive about the Holocaust, especially in politics, Erdogan constantly bringing it up is going to upset them, especially saying that they are under a debt to Israel
 

godel44

Committed member
Messages
167
Reactions
8 505
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
Germans are very sensitive about the Holocaust, especially in politics, Erdogan constantly bringing it up is going to upset them, especially saying that they are under a debt to Israel
That's not an insult and it's highly relevant to the subject.
 

Sanchez

Experienced member
Moderator
Think Tank Analyst
DefenceHub Diplomat
Messages
4,193
Reactions
127 19,054
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
There is good possibility in case of Typhoon sale to Türkiye, France can block the sale of Meteor. Could UK sale Meteor from RAF inventory too? Will RAF agree to it?
Meteor is one thing. Will we be able to add our own systems, even our weapons to them whether they are new built or second hand?

From a technical, organizational and conceptual look, this potential deal is a mess and the official talks for it and its details would take years to conclude if we were in a good timeline. We are not in a good timeline. We don't even know if we have a political crisis with Germany right now or not.

Do we get to add our own weapons? How do we do it? As 33% shareholder of the Eurofighter program, would Germany let us near the systems? Would we need to give the most intricate details of our new systems, like Gökdoğan to say Spain or UK to have them certify it for Typhoon? Do we want to do this?

In the case of a fresh built fleet, do we get offset deals? Do we get to build parts of the aircraft? Do we become a part of the consortium? Do we get to build our own spares for small things that don't cost much but can ground a fleet? How willing are Spanish and Brits are to push the Germans? They didn't push enough for Saudi deal.

If an EF-2000 purchase does happen, what's the timeline? Presumably 1 or 2 squadrons are to be purchased. When do we get FOC for both of them? 5-8 years?

If we get second hand aircraft from Spain and UK, can we modernize them without Germany's acceptance and equipment support? If it can be done without them, can we afford such an increase in cost neccesitated by German removal?

Few things are clear. Our fighters are the most obsolete in the region compared to our regional rivals except for Iran. In a world even Iraq is in talks to get Rafales, we cannot keep an edge with short of breathe legacy F-16s. In a future where we try to extend our geopolitical footprint, F-16s alone won't also be able to cover enough ground whether with Özgür or B70.

Light of our eyes, Kaan will not be combat ready in number before at least 15 years, if things go according to plan. And our plans never go according to plan. We don't have a substitute for F110s. We will never have a substitute during Kaan's development. Kaan's development is frozen for at least 2 decades unless Americans give us the engines. Adding more, Can we entrust our airspace to a radar that has not yet even flown, a flying wing drone that hasn't yet even flown and a fighter drone prototype with underpowered Ukrainian engines? Can we afford to wait 15-20 more years for our own stuff to mature?

We wasted almost 10 years doing nothing. We set out to have near total air force independence from the US in the future and we are more dependent on them than we were ever before. Greece did what we currently aim to do with the EF-2000 purchase more than 20 years ago. When they understood that they couldn't trust US against us, decided to diversify, and they went to the French and got Mirages. That relationship grew and grew and 25 years later, they now operate best of what France has to offer and they also got a joint defence agreement out of it. War with Greece for Turkey means war with France as well, they are now military allies. France is treaty bound to defend Greece.

We missed the diversification train in more than 3 occasions. Europeans tried to sell us their aircraft multiple times. They offered Tornado in 80s, Italians offered Eurofighter in 2000s and Brits offered another Typhoon deal in 2010s. We never took the step that mattered in any of these cases. When we joined in on those programs, our air force flourished, like when we got CN-235s and A400Ms.

I'm always fine with being the pessimist. I also can't claim to know if such a deal would for the best or even if it's possible. But in a world where we can't trust US to do simplest things and while both our fighter projects hang in the balance between their two fingers, we cannot allow to NOT diversify our air force. If anything, this might just be push Americans enough to play ball in a more level field, like what drones did for us in the last decade. We had to take these actions 30, 20 or 10 years ago. Next best time is tomorrow, and I will whole heartedly support it if it happens no matter the details. Even a squadron of Tranche 1s with AIM-120s would be a net positive. If Greece can operate 3 types(soon 4) of fighters, we can afford it as well.
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom